Wednesday, August 27, 2008

The all-purpose excuse (UPDATED)

New poll on Kos: "What is the biggest factor driving anti-Obama sentiment?"

Results (as of this writing):

Anger toward his mistreatment of the Clintons -- 2 votes
Don't trust his experience - 3 votes
Racism, pure and simple - 56 votes

(The poll gives us no "Obots are vile" option.)

Of course, as I keep reminding my readers, Colin Powell could have had the White House in 2000 merely by pointing at it and saying "I'll take it." Everyone knows that. And so endeth the "racism" argument.

Progs live in dreamland, and they refuse to take responsibility for their own actions. My favorite line from Deconstructing Harry applies here: "I think you're the opposite of a paranoid. I think you go around with the insane delusion that people like you." Irrationally convinced of their own lovability, progressives cannot admit that they created the intra-party rift.

One of my readers defined the situation perfectly:
First, they said they didn't need me.

Now, they're telling me: "The beatings will continue until your attitude improves."
In another Cheeto post today, you will see tons of CDS. So much for unity. True, a few Kossacks contributing to that thread try to hold the Clinton-hate in check. The ones doing the holding back are just as hate-filled, but at least they understand the tactical advantage of trying to pretend to tolerate the Clinton supporters. (But they still won't confess to the tactical advantage of an apology.)
She gave the mcbush campaign talking points. She made herself LIEberman with internal plumbing.
her miscreant hubby
My disdain for all things Clinton is well documented in my previous posts.
Did Hillary really mean everything she said? Were there coded messages in her speech we have yet to uncover?
If Obama is successfully elected, we'll be able to forgive.
During the primaries, the Clintons did nothing -- absolutely nothing -- requiring forgiveness. Obama and the Kossacks did plenty. Case in point: The NAFTA smear.
Re: Clintons. Fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me. The Clintons will never again fool me.
freakin Campbell Brown The first thing she said after the speech was something like, wow, what a great speech, this must make lots of people wonder why Obama didn't pick her as his VP.


I only flipped to cnn for one second and that is what I got. flippin useless drivel, I'll never watch that shit again.
PUMAs are Republicans
This one is particularly cute:
Libertarians seem to be to Republicans what the Greens seem to be to us...
Err...Kos is a libertarian. Arianna Huffington is a libertarian. Andrew Sullivan is a libertarian. Obama's economic advisers Goolsbee and Feldman lean libertarian. I've sounded this theme for months: The virus of libertarianism, having done all the harm it can via the Republican party, has found a new host. Libertarianism is taking over the Democratic party by way of Obama and his supporters. Since I consider libertarianism the primary enemy, I will never support Obama. PUMAs come from the anti-libertarian wing of the Democratic party.
racists in democratic skin.. bye hater
Once again, the "go away" theme. Yep, rhetoric like that will unite the party! And here's more:
pundits and poseurs...That's all that's left in the PUMA camp.

It's time.

The last car on the train has just called all aboard - the rest were never Democrats to begin with.
Then why is Obama losing to McCain?
She was capable of, and could have done, so much more than she did.

Is Puma dissolved? Has the party been united?
Hillary never ran PUMA, moron.
That wailing sound over in the corner? The sound of 8 PUMA's in their death throes. Good night and good riddance...
That ain't a wail; that's a snarl. And when Obama emerges from this convention with the kind of bounce you get from a concrete basketball, then let's talk about "death throes."
my deepest wish is that she divorces bill and just gives herself over to the work of governing this country without the divisiveness and cynicism of bill's (and mark penn's) micro-targeted, identity politics.
"Identity politics"? Hillary had the black vote. Obama took it after mounting a smear campaign falsely claiming that the Clintons are racists. Who, exactly, practiced "identity politics"?
The one good quality about narcissists like Bill Clinton is that they hold themselves in too high of a regard to ever not "shine".
About the racism charge:
he brought it on himself
He's still an assclown
I do believe he brought it on himself and I can't say I feel much sympathy
I'm over Bill Clinton, seriously.
lost his cred when he took advantage of a young woman almost young enough to be his daughter, in the White House.
Ah yes. That. From an alleged Democrat. But then again, aren't all weapons fair in the never-ending prog war against the Clintons?

I'm going to get criticized for saying this, but I don't care. "Took advantage" how? Fucking a (grown) woman who throws herself at you may not be honorable -- in fact, if you are married, it may be decidedly dishonorable. But how the hell is it "taking advantage" of the lady? Rock stars don't take advantage of groupies; the groupies take advantage of them.

Let's close with a lyric from the "too little too late" choir:
You don't just kick two great politicians out of the party.
Then why did Moulitsas say that Hillary was no Democrat? Why did the progressives repeatedly tell all Clinton supporters to leave the party? Don't those idiots understand that words have consequences?

UPDATED: Today, Josh Marshall twice reprints this reader comment.
After all of your pleas for democrats to "attack, attack, attack" why are you letting Hillary off the hook?
TPM's top story at this writing:
Body language analysts agree! Hillary's heart wasn't in it.
Marshall, once the king of bloggers, has become a clown. Does he really think the Clinton supporters created the rift? The man must lack a mirror, because he seems to be unable to see himself as he truly is. Marshall is a better PUMA than riverdaughter or Larry Johnson!


Anonymous said...

Then why did Moulitsas say that Hillary was no Democrat? Why did the progressives repeatedly tell all Clinton supporters to leave the party? Don't those idiots understand that words have consequences?

I'm assuming yours is a rhetorical question?

Anonymous said...

OT--Help, yours is the only site i have been able to access this morning, can't connect to many other favorite sites.. Am I paranoid, or is there a problem with some sites being crashed, otherwise I guess it must just be me, but I could get to them all yesterday. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Perry Logan said...

All that nastiness--and we aren't even drafting the little pr!cks.

RedDragon said...

I also wrote a somewhat angry post yesterday after I checked my inbox and recieved a "TON" of hate mail. Screw every last one of these O'Bots and the Master that holds their leash.

I never again will look at the Democratic Party as I once did.

Joseph Cannon said...

The amazing thing is, these fools actually think that hate will win the day. Ten fifteen years from now -- perhaps ten or fifteen months from now -- it will be conventional wisdom that they should have built unity by displaying humility, not hatred. But their ego forbids that.

Hey, they kept telling me to leave the party. So I went. What right have they to be angry?

Anonymous said...

from another continent the expectation is that there won't be much difference policywise between both candidates, agressive foreign policy, persistent attacks on your -meagre- social security, no change re the domestic security apparatus etc etc.
what frightens me isn the persistance of emotional upheavals (change change)and lack of intellect or better said: lack of use of one's intellect as far as policy and policy options are concerned.
but joe, i've read your blog for a few years and i will do so for as long as you keep up the good work!
frappez, frappez toujours.

John said...

Joe, you do know that there are places to land besides 0 and 10, when switching from one side to the other...try 4 or 5 or 6 sometime, it's quite nice ;)

I can't stand Markos, and I believe he is not what he appears to be.

I'm a true Hillary fan unlike you, so if anyone has a right to get upset, I do.

I have never changed my belief that Obama's campaign was the dirtiest campaign I have ever seen a Democrat run to get the nomination.

None of these things have changed - I've been the same way month after month, and in the case of Hillary and Markos, year after year. I've got the documentation unlike the trolls who come here and pretend to be what they are not, to prove myself over and over, and I have done just that when asked to.

Now then...

We've had this talk before, over and over and have no evidence at all that those anonymous people who post rotten things are actually Democrats. In the case of Markos, you already know that he isn't a Democrat - and I am the one who turned you on to the evidence to show that.

Over and over and over I've made the point that the pricks who post the crap that you highlight are right wing trolls. They are certainly not Democrats, any more than Markos is, because real Democrats wouldn't do what they do, and say what they say.

But you are not being fair, because if you go to the Kos diary that you yourself linked to ("another Cheeto post"), you will clearly see that the positive comments about Hillary far outweigh the trollish negative comments. Let's be real here - the phony PUMAs are in most cases the very same folks that post the negative crap that you highlight!

Do you really think TexasDarlin is a Democrat? TechDude? Polarik? EllieWyatt? Yada yada yada? These people are is "Perry Logan," a troll that visits you often lately. They don't give a damn about Hillary, and they don't give a damn about Democrats, except for screwing around and trying to cause trouble.

Yes, it is quite difficult to forgive the Obama campaign's sins...I have as much anger today as I had months ago. But I refuse to switch myself over to setting "10" and suddenly refuse to vote for my party's nominee...I'm not an idiot, I cannot support a senile and dirty old man who will continue down the path of the last 8 years, and no matter how much you huff and puff, I cannot believe that you want to see this shit continue either.

Sometimes one has no choice but to pick the lesser of two evils.


Anonymous said...

It really is now about making sure McCain doesn't get into the White House, even though I am sure that is already rigged. No one ever knows what is going on inside a campaign. How do you know who really writes those posts you subject us to? McCain operatives? Rove? How long has something you despise been left on your website because you were busy and didn't notice it? and you're the owner, not a peon. Don't be sucked in by the same old tactics w/out proof of origin. Think of the long term.

Anonymous said...

First, I'm surprised Hillary was not booed at the convention. I was convinced by the owner of this blog that EVERY Obama supporters was a vile Hillary hater and instead of booing, they were applauding her ?!

Why did the progressives repeatedly tell all Clinton supporters to leave the party?

There's a mistake in your question. The majority of Clinton supporters are not whinny party poopers who try to get their candidate elected through extortion with "It's Hillary or I'm voting for McCain". So nobody is asking Clinton supporters to leave, they're only asking the small minority of pseudo Democrat PUMA to leave (mostly composed of supposedly "ex" Republican and some bloggers who think the world gravitate around their inflated ego). Like any radical movement, the few PUMAs out there are quite active, and since Republicans benefit from these party poopers, you will get some air time on Foxnews, but you're still only a small minority inflated by the media and manipulated by Republican talking points.

If you will never vote for Obama and Obama is the Democratic Party candidate, why would you stay in that party ? You're only a small minority, but you're talking of "purging" the party of its majority
who support Obama. So why don't you purge yourself ? (I have some name suggestions for your new party, but I'll keep them for myself because I wouldn't want to offense the fragile ears of Jen)

Your blog has become like a car crash, it's gruesome to watch, but I can't stop myself...

John said...

BTW Joe, if you would have looked a little deeper, you would have noticed that the Kos poll you start off with was written by this guy, a rather new member at Daily Kos, who lets the world know the following:

"Now, I don't claim to speak for all Republicans. But as a Bush voter in 2000, and a newly minted member of the Netroots, I thought I'd share some perspective..."

Perhaps he should have said "a better perspective," because I sure have one. He's just "yet-another" troll pretending to be a Democrat, nothing more, crafting a poll to create division.


Anonymous said...

I agree with anon- the joseph I knew would have been investigating who was doing this.

Now- I am very sorry that people were hateful to you, but I doubt that republicans would play any more fair - actually less so from their past history.

Those who follow their convictions can be blinded by their passion. We already are seeing a bit of an election come down, because people did behave so fervently, reality of politics escaped many.

To dismiss the racism issue as a nonissue is not fair to the truth. You don't know how many chain emails I have gotten from my republican grandmother--all very racist- all from republicans. And I can promise you, there were issues you had here questioning Obama-- that were first put in my email inbox by republicans - not disgruntled democrats.

I decided the only way to get through this election with my family is not to discuss politics at all (they didn't like Hillary either and the repubs would have been brutal to her if she were the nominee).

You don't know the hate out there if you think it is all in the obots, as you call them. They do have very good reason to believe in a subversive racist influence in this race. That doesn't excuse them for treating your questioning unfairly, but that is also the nature of the internet and politics...people find it easy to throw out ad hominems with a keyboard than to a face. Ironically, the words on the internet are far more difficult to take back.

I have tried to stay out of this issue here on cannonfire because I do not have the conviction either side. I have seen the best and the worst of politics and had a wake up call to get out of it in my early 20's. There are few of honor in this field. At the end of the day - it is about what is the greater good for all that keeps me voting democrat.

Yesterday some neo nazis were arrested in Denver with drugs, guns and threats on Obama's life.
Is there a conspiracy in that- I don't know, but the Joseph I have read in the past would have looked into that from both sides.

Okay- enough of my lecture, I won't trouble you further on this, as i trust you will follow your heart and do what you believe is best whether i agree with it or not. But I do wonder what you think of Nader's Raiders these days ;-)

Anonymous said...

ps.........correction- Joseph I know you did investigate much of the hate campaigns (and did a good job many times), but I would wonder why you didn't look into the republicans for much of it in its infant stages.

Anonymous said...

this is perry logan:

he has one of the most annoying public access tv shows.... I can never watch it more than 2 minutes-even if its bizarre.
Yes - it is as annoying as Alex Jones, just a different kind of annoying. Think he is an atheist quasi liberal psuedo intellectual. But that's absorbed just with 2 minutes of viewing at a time ;-)

Anonymous said...


I'd be interested to have you state what makes you question that I'm a Democrat.

My first vote (proudly so) was for Shirley Chisholm in 1972 (when one had to be 21 to vote). I have voted for one republican in my life: Senator Pete McCloskey, "McCloskey was the first member of Congress to publicly call for the impeachment of President Nixon after the Watergate scandal and the Saturday Night Massacre. He was also the first lawmaker to call for a repeal of the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution that allowed for the War in Vietnam." He endorsed Kerry in 2004, and now he's a Democrat.

I am currently a registered Dem in order to vote for a fine new congressman (D) in my district. After that, I will not any longer be a registered Dem until serious changes are made.

You have no call to insinuate that Perry Logan is a troll. I have read his posts on other blogs for years. You owe him an apology.

I have also followed your postings for nearly four years and have seen how very often you have falsely accused and smeared MANY hard-working, devoted, dedicated Democtrats.

Take your paranoia to your shrink's office and quit smearing good people.