Sunday, November 22, 2009

Google, your files and the CIA



I've always been hesitant to complain about Google in these pages. After all, that company is the founder of the feast: Google owns Blogger, without which we would lack many blogs, including the one you are reading at present.

But I'm concerned by Google's new Chrome OS, the operating system that relies on "cloud computing." Under the new regime, you place your files on the net, not on your system, and you access those files via your browser. The only programs available to you would be those bestowed upon you by the gods of the internet.

The upside of this approach is obvious: The computer will switch on much faster, you won't have to pay for a hard drive, and you can't lose data when your drive goes bad. With Chrome OS, the only onboard drive is solid state. (Of course, the financial burden imposed by the traditional hard drive set-up isn't so onerous these days -- you can get a terrabyte for about a hundred bucks.)

The downside should be equally obvious. What about periods when you aren't connected to the net? I had a very irritating month earlier this year, waiting for ATT to hook me up; eventually, I got sick of waiting and took my business elsewhere. Even when connected, the Chrome OS throughput probably would not allow for image processing, video editing, game playing or even the design of a fairly complex web page.

And how will files be named? By URL? That would suck.

A lot of commenters don't talk about what I consider the most important drawback: Privacy.

Can we trust Google with our data?

Before we proceed, please understand: I spend a lot of time making fun of conspiracy cranks. I have a phobic reaction toward people who think that Freemasons run the universe, and I don't have much sympathy for nutjobs who seek out covert Illuminati messages on dollar bills. Nevertheless, I retain a healthy paranoia when it comes to three letters: CIA.

Spies are real. They're not figments of Alex Jones' imagination.

History teaches us that nations fall into decay when their Janissaries attain too much power. History also teaches us that the "war on terror" can be and has been used as a pretext for repressing dissent. I'm an old-school lefty who thought that Frank Church was one of the good guys. I think that every citizen of every nation must strive to keep all spooks leashed.

Is there a longstanding relationship between Google and the CIA? Yes.

While we don't have as much evidence as we would like -- in these realms, we never have as much evidence as we would like -- the evidence we do have suggests that Google and the Agency have a long and abiding history together.

Google is the source of Intellipedia, a version of Wikipedia which allows intelligence professionals to trade information about their targets. We may fairly presume that the Google personnel who have worked on this program must have high security clearances, and that the physical servers are protected by the United States government.

Intellipedia was set up in 2006. It would be naive to suggest that the Google/gummint relationship does not stretch back much further. Folks in the intelligence community must have very good reason to trust Google, or they would worry about back doors in the software.

Is Intellipedia subject to FOIA requests? I suspect it is, although the matter has not been put to the test.

Here's a fun factoid: Barack Obama has created at least one Intellipedia entry -- on Occidental College, or so it has been reported. As Arte Johnson used to say: Verrrrrry EEEN-teresting. The head guy at Oxy's political science department was an old CIA hand close to Brzezinski. No-one really knows why Obama chose Oxy.

Back to Google.

In-Q-Tel, the CIA venture capital firm, has invested in Google. In-Q-Tel sold some $2.2 million worth of Google stock back in 2005. That stock was acquired when Google took over the In-Q-Tel funded firm that gave us the technology behind Google Earth. Although some news stories have indicated that the relationship ended with the 2005 stock sale, the linkages between Google and spookworld are continue.

And they go back to the very beginning of the firm. A former CIA case officer named Robert David Steele -- best known for his congressional testimony on the insufficient attention given to open source intelligence -- has on several occasions said that the CIA funded Google in the early days. True, Steele said this in an interview with the dreaded Alex Jones. But Steele has made the same claim elsewhere.

I strongly urge you to read this important article on HS Today (a site devoted to Homeland Security). The author is Anthony Kimery, a name long known to me; I consider him both cautious and trustworthy. Kimery thus quotes Steele:
Robert David Steele, intelligence veteran and CEO of OSS.Net, Inc. which sponsored last week’s event, told HSToday.us Tuesday evening that "Google is being actively hypocritical and deceptive in playing up its refusal to help the Department of Justice when all along it has been taking money and direction for elements of the US Intelligence Community, including the Office of Research and Development at the Central Intelligence Agency, In-Q-Tel, and in all probability, both the National Security Agency (NSA) and the Army's Intelligence and Security Command."

Steele added, “I have no doubt that Google, in its arrogance, decided it could make a deal with the devil and not get caught.

“...In my view, a secret financial and secret information sharing relationship with the US Intelligence Community - or any other intelligence community - violates everything about Google that should be sacred, and suggests that we can no longer trust them to live up to their original ethos.”
Google has officially denied Steele's allegations. However, Kimery developed other sources who verified Steele's account:
Google’s alleged secret relationship with the US intelligence community (IC) was divulged by an IT contractor and confirmed by US intelligence authorities familiar with the matter during the OSS.Net IOP conference near Washington, DC. The contractor, who spoke on a not-for-attribution basis, said that at least one US intelligence agency he declined to identify is working to “leverage Google’s [user] data monitoring” capability as part of an effort by the IC to glean from this data information of “national security intelligence interest” in the war on terror.

The intelligence sources, also speaking on a not-for-attribution basis, would not say under what authority the IC had obtained Google’s cooperation, or which intelligence agency is involved. One of the sources did say, however, that the CIA’s Office of Research and Development “has been giving them additional money and guidance and requirements.”
The spies may now use data mining technology to follow the click stream trail left by each Google user.
"Click streams" are the paths visitors take through a web site. Analyzing click stream data can help uncover navigation patterns and common paths. In short: User browsing habits, from which a great deal can be gleaned.
Tellingly, Google and Spookworld have a mutual revolving door when it comes to employment:
Former IC software engineers are known to have worked for Google, and Google technical job announcements have noted applicants seeking to work on the Google Search Appliance “must have current government top security clearance” at the TS/SI level. "SI," or special intelligence, is a euphemism for communications intelligence, or COMINT.
To see one such job announcement -- from as far back as 2002 -- go here and scroll down.

Steele has named Google's main contact at CIA's Office of Research and Development: Dr. Rick Steinheiser.

Unsurprisingly, researching Steinheiser is not easy, although we know that he has long had an interest in data mining. (See the acknowledgment here.) His CIA employment is confirmed here and here.

Google (the search engine) reports that Steinheiser also gave a lecture on data mining at a conference hosted by the Mitre Corporation. I tried to call up those pages, only to encounter a "dangerous site" warning on Firefox. Simultaneously, my malware detector told me that I had picked up a virus that needed to be quarantined immediately. If ever I try to look up anything Mitre-related again, I'll do so on a library computer.

The bottom line is this: The CIA, through Google, can track your web habits. Through Facebook, the intelligence community can track your interactions with your friends. And now, if you use Chrome OS, the data miners will finally gain access to your sanctum sanctorum -- your private files.

The final door will spring open -- and you will have provided the key to the lock.

Many will say: "So what? I've got nothing to worry about. I've done nothing wrong!"

Even if everything you do on the computer is innocent, ask yourself this: Would you allow federal agents to enter your home without a warrant in order to scan the contents of your bookshelves and rifle through your physical files? Would you ever allow agents unfettered access to your physical mailbox?

No. Purely as a matter of principle, you'd tell those snoops to go to hell.

At least, that's what your fathers and mothers and grandfathers and grandmothers would have said. The new generation is, I fear, far more sheeplike.

In former times, Americans were taught to sneer at those foreign citizens who reacted with servility whenever the NKVD or the Stasi intruded into private life. Yet modern Americans are now far more obeisant. We willingly join Facebook. And now many of us will entrust our most private documents to Google.

In the recent film The Good Shepherd (a thinly disguised bio of CIA counterintelligence officer James Jesus Angleton) a character based on Richard Helms relates an amusing but unnerving anecdote. A congressman had asked "Helms" a question of nomenclature: "Why do you guys call yourselves 'CIA'? Why don't you use the word 'the' -- as in the CIA?"

"Helms" replied: "Because you don't refer to the God."
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Comments:
Hey, thanks. I've been meaning to ask you who Matt Damon's "character" was supposed to be in that one.
 
there's always scrooglescraper:

www.scroogle.org/cgi-bin/scraper.htm
 
A good post, but I'd like to make a suggestion. Change the worries about Chrome OS to "cloud computing" in general.

Chrome OS is merely a way to access the "cloud services" but on its own it probably doesn't pose much of a threat. I say this because it's open source and based on Linux, and if you're going to have any community pick through software to check for safety it's going to be people from those particulary communities.

The problem really is where you're storing your data and if it is safe. Ultimately no major OS is going to be able to get away with anything of this nature as there are enough people dedicated to finding out suchs things for various reason.

Frankly it's a problem we've already been aware of: from Facebook privacy issues to insecure data storage which leads to large theft of credit card information.
 
You're still using Windows?!?

Switch to Linux. It takes maybe an hour to get used to. And as an added bonus, the government's keyloggers don't work on it.
 
I guess I don't understand. Our blogs will just disappear one day, pfft, and there will be no back up anywhere.
 
google is part of this message, so it's on topic! but wondering why u r ignoring this:

from a former 'believer':

in the wake of the release of CRU documents, LA Times says the 'science' is not important:

22 Nov. LA Times: A climate change dust-up
One side sees hacked e-mail as a sign of a 'Warmist Conspiracy.' The other says it's being taken out of context. Analysts don't expect it to have much effect on the Senate greenhouse gas bill.
But advocates of action to curb global warming dismiss those claims, and political leaders and analysts say the Senate bill to limit greenhouse gas emissions will sink or swim based on economics, not science.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and-world/la-fg-climate-hacker22-2009nov22,0,913036.story

for info go to: http://climatedepot.com/ which is being updated with more details, summaries and analyses by the hour, including mention of more hacked CRU documents to come.

SAP and Siemens corporations and Coca-Cola have launched a website called Hopenhagen, whose mission statement says "Hopenhagen is change" (no prizes for which charismatic leader was 'selected' to lead the sheeple down this path). along with their many media friends, hopenhagen insists cap n tax (oops, i mean trade) be implemented before the sheeple catch on...only days left or the world will end, it seems.

Friends of Hopenhagen
(includes google, clear channel, business insider, business week, wall street journal, newsweek, yahoo, national geographic, huffington post, cosmopolitan (?), thomson reuters, etc etc)
http://www.hopenhagen.org/friends
 
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Saturday, November 21, 2009

Guy stuff

The Good, the Bad and the Ugly: Believe it or not, a terrific print of the entire, uncut film is available for high quality download -- legal download -- FOR FREE -- right now. You have to sit through a small commercial at first, but that's it. You can download using any video downloader program.

This situation probably won't last, so grab the film NOW NOW NOW. (You may recall our previous mention of this masterwork.)

K-7: Some time ago, on Salon or Slate -- I forget which -- a woman wrote a columnist asking for advice on how to tell if a man is gay. Here's a simple solution: Show him this page. If he doesn't spend at least 30 seconds convinced that he has just seen the coolest thing ever, you're probably not dealing with a heterosexual. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Yeah, I just indulged in stereotyping. But you know I'm right.
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Comments:
Is it a silly question to ask where one grabs the film?

Harry
 
Sorry, Harry. I've put the link in.
 
Oh man Joseph, that stereotyping thing hurt my feelins. Yea, its cool. We don't all like disco either.
 
Wow - I am usually 110% in agreement with your posts - but not this time. Those drawing and photographs may not be the absolutely coolest thing ever, but I spent way more than 30 seconds on that page imagining what it would have been like to see one of those contraptions in the air. And so did my partner - both of us as gay as they come. We ride motorcycles, have way more power tools than we can ever use, and have watched "Once Upon a Time In the West" more times than I can count. And there are thousands - maybe millions - of gay men like us. Just as there are plenty of hetero men who shave daily (yech), watch chick flicks, and sing show tunes. Please drop those stereotypes once and for all.
 
I never said a gay man (or any woman) couldn't like those images. Read closer.

Of course, I spent four hours last night watching Project Catwalk on Youtube...but ONLY to make a lady happy.
 
You are right, you did just indulge in stereotyping. Not to worry, we won't mention it at the dinner table this Thursday
 
Just as long as you don't tell one of your boring stories about Findhorn, Andre.
 
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The prophecies of Leonardo da Vinci

(This is a bit of non-political weekend fun. Don't take it too seriously.)

No, I'm not pulling a Dan Brown on you: Leonardo da Vinci really did write "prophecies," found in the Codex Atlanticus. Many of these quotes seem more like axioms or observations, applicable to any time, although the ones printed here seem intended to be taken as forecasts of things to come. Each prophecy carries a poetic title. Quite a few of these prophecies are very trippy and weird, at least on first reading. The strange language becomes clearer as the reader starts to grasp Leonardo's metaphorical argot.

Let's see how the old bugger did...
OF DREAMING

It shall seem to men that they see new destructions in the sky, and the flames descending there from shall seem to have taken night and to flee away in terror; they shall hear creatures of every kind speaking human language; they shall run in a moment, in person, to divers parts of the world without movement; amidst the darkness they shall see the most radiant splendours. O marvel of mankind! What frenzy has thus impelled you! You shall hold converse with animals of every species, and they with you in human language. You shall behold yourselves falling from great heights without suffering any injury; the torrents will bear you with them as they mingle in their rapid course.
Aside from the talking animal stuff, this one seems pretty damned impressive. The first part provides an adequate description of a night-time bombing raid, or perhaps a nuclear attack. The "radiant splendours" in the darkness sounds like a visit to Vegas.

Falling from great heights, borne by torrents (of air)? The parachute, obviously.
OF BOOKS WHICH INCULCATE PRECEPTS
Bodies without souls shall by their sayings supply precepts which shall help us to die well.
Maybe he's talking about James Arthur Ray.
OF CATCHING LICE
There will be many hunters of animals who the more they catch the fewer they will have; and so conversely they will have more in proportion as they catch less.
Species depletion. Over-fishing. Or maybe he really is talking about lice, in which case the riddle is just plain silly.
OF THE WORSHIPPING OF PICTURES OF SAINTS
Men shall speak with men who shall not hear them; their eyes shall be open and they shall not see; they will speak to them and there shall be no reply; they will ask pardon from one who has ears and does not hear; they will offer light to one who is blind, and to the deaf they will appeal with loud clamour.
Boy, tell me about it. Ever send a letter to a politician?
OF THE BELLS OF MULES WHICH ARE CLOSE TO THEIR EARS
There shall be heard in many parts of Europe instruments of various sizes making divers melodies, causing great weariness to those who hear them most closely.
Hey, I like my headphones! Maybe Leo's just being bitchy. Or maybe, on a psychic visit to the 21st century, he heard a few minutes of hip-hop.
OF SOLDIERS ON HORSEBACK
Many shall be seen carried by large animals with great speed, to the loss of their lives and to instant death. In the air and on the earth shall be seen animals of different colours, bearing men furiously to the destruction of their lives.
For "animals" read "vehicles." Now it makes perfect sense, dunnit?
OF A STICK WHICH IS A DEAD THING
The movement of the dead shall cause many who are living to flee away with grief and lamentation and cries.
Obviously, on one of his psychic trips to our times, Leo caught a George Romero flick.

More seriously: One of the other prophecies (not printed here) makes clear that Leo used "dead" as a poetic metaphor for iron or metal. Thus, a moving metallic thingamawhatzit will cause many to flee: The tank. The mobile machine gun.
OF BEATING THE BED TO REMAKE IT
To such a pitch of ingratitude shall men come that that which shall give them lodging without any price shall be loaded with blows, in such a way that great parts of the inside of it shall be detached from their place, and shall be turned over and over within it.
That which gives us lodging without price is, of course, the Earth.
OF THE PRECIOUS METALS
There shall come forth out of dark and gloomy caves that which shall cause the whole human race to undergo great afflictions, perils, and death. To many of those who follow it, after much tribulation it will yield delight; but whosoever pays it no homage will die in want and misery. It shall bring to pass an endless number of crimes; it shall prompt and incite wretched men to assassinate, to steal, and to enslave; it shall hold its own followers in, suspicion; it shall deprive free cities of their rank: it shall take away life itself from many; it shall make men torment each other with many kinds of subterfuge, deceits, and treacheries. O vile monster! How much better were it for men that thou shouldst go back to hell! For this the vast forests shall be stripped of their trees; for this an infinite number of creatures shall lose their lives.
Obviously, he's talking about gold -- lucre, lolly, dinero, cash. "Vast forests shall be stripped of their trees" -- well, that's South America.
OF WRITING LETTERS FROM ONE COUNTRY TO ANOTHER
Men from the most remote countries shall speak one to another and shall reply.
And they shall receive news from Nigeria of great bequests and winning lottery numbers.
OF THE HEMISPHERES WHICH ARE INFINITE AND DIVIDED BY AN INFINITE NUMBER OF LINES, IN SUCH A WAY THAT EVERY MAN HAS ALWAYS ONE OF THESE LINES BETWEEN HIS FEET
Men shall speak with and touch and embrace each other while standing each in different hemispheres, and shall understand each other's language.
An infinite number of lines beneath our feet, connecting us all together. In other words, a World Wide Web. With Babelfish!
OF FRIARS WHO HOLD CONFESSION
The unhappy women of their own accord shall go to reveal to men all their wantonness and their shameful and most secret acts.
Shrinks. IRC. MySpace.
OF THE SELLING OF PARADISE
A countless multitude will sell publicly and without hindrance things of the very greatest value, without licence from the Lord of these things, which were never theirs nor in their power; and human justice will take no account of this.
Leo meets Pat Robertson.
OF SAILING IN SHIPS
The trees of the vast forests of Taurus and of Sinai, of the Apennines and of Atlas, shall be seen speeding by means of the air from east to west, and from north to south, and transporting by means of the air a great quantity of men. Oh, how many vows! How many deaths! What partings between friends and relatives shall there be! How many who shall nevermore behold their own lands or their native country, and shall die unsepulchred and their bones be scattered in divers parts of the world!
He's talking about air ships.
OF FRIARS WHO BY SPENDING ONLY WORDS RECEIVE GREAT RICHES AND BESTOW PARADISE
Invisible money will cause many who spend it to triumph.
Televangelists. Electronic funds transfers.
OF THE BARBERS
All men will take refuge in Africa.
Damned if I can figure this one out. But it seems pregnant with meaning. What do you think he meant by "barbers"? Berbers live in Africa...
OF THE THURIFER WITH INCENSE
Some shall go about in white vestments with arrogant gestures threatening others with metal and fire, which yet have never done them any harm.
A thurifer is a cleric who swings a thurible. A thurible is that round metal thingie which emits smoke -- a.k.a. a censer. (You've seen it.) Except for da Vinci, no-one ever thought that "clouds" could be used as weapons -- until the advent of chemical warfare.
OF THE LIFE OF MEN WHO EVERY TEN YEARS ARE CHANGED IN BODILY SUBSTANCE
Men will pass when dead through their own bowels.
"When we're healthy we essentially regrow an entirely new skin every seven weeks or so; we replace all the cells in our bones about every ten years." That quote comes from here. How could Leonardo have known...?
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Comments:
"Aside from the talking animal stuff, this one seems pretty damned impressive."

Mickey Mouse? Bugs Bunny? He nailed that one too.
 
His animals talking in human speech?

Maybe he had a vision of today's TV cartoons... They're full of talking animals.
 
Of worshiping the pictures of Saints seems to be a dig at the Catholic Church.
 
OF THE BELLS OF MULES WHICH ARE CLOSE TO THEIR EARS


There shall be heard in many parts of Europe instruments of various sizes making divers melodies, causing great weariness to those who hear them most closely.


He has to be talking about Europop.

*2012 SPOILER ALERT*

OF THE BARBERS

All men will take refuge in Africa.


Apparently, Roland Emmerich reads Da Vinci prophecies, too, b/c that's the ending to 2012.

Perhaps Barbers is short for barbarians? It's probable that a catastrophic world event on such a scale would send humankind to a new Dark Ages.
 
::sighs:: Calling him "Da Vinci" would be calling someone by the town they lived in. Hey, "San Diego, how they' hangin'?" He is Leonardo.

Sorry... a HUGE pet peeve of mine.

Ms. Vandal.
 
"OF THE SELLING OF PARADISE
A countless multitude will sell publicly and without hindrance things of the very greatest value, without licence from the Lord of these things, which were never theirs nor in their power; and human justice will take no account of this."

sounds like mortgage-backed securities.
 
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Friday, November 20, 2009

Maybe Xenu runs ACORN...?

I am no fan of Barack Obama. I would have preferred a McCain victory in 2008. And I wrote posts critical of ACORN during primary season.

Even so, I cannot freaking believe the latest polls: The majority of Republicans -- and some 26 percent of the overall electorate -- think that ACORN stole the election for Obama. By comparison, only 13 percent of the country thinks that vote fraud helped propel Bush to victory in 2004.

(Those 13 percenters are almost certainly right, by the way.)

C'mon. Get real. In 2008, the Democrats could have won even if they had nominated Squeaky Fromme. What need of vote fraud?

The Republican party gave the country an unpopular war and an economic meltdown. (Alas, a lot of people now seem to forget that both the catastrophe and the bailout occurred before the election. A lot of people also can't remember the date when 9/11 ocurred. Americans suck at chronology as much as they suck at geography.) John McCain, for reasons best known to himself, ran the softest, squishiest Republican campaign in memory. His inability to pretend to be a religious nut depressed the religious nut vote.

Are we to believe that ACORN could engineer massive vote fraud in a number of states -- faking up hundreds of thousands of votes, maybe millions of votes -- without access to either the machines or the tabulators? Are we to accept that this brobdinagian degree of vote burglary occurred without a single instance of cheating being detected by the Bush Department of Justice? Were there any significant telltale discrepancies between the actual vote totals, the pre-vote polls and the exit polls?

I'm continually stunned by humanity's ability to believe in hallucinations. The majority of the American people are also under the impression that you can end a recession by combating the deficit. (These same people couldn't get worked up about massive debts during flush times. When Dick Cheney said that deficits don't matter, did any Republicans care?) Worse, a growing percentage of the citizenry thinks that Democrats caused the recession.

We shouldn't make fun of the Scientologists for believing in Xenu. Most of your friends and neighbors accept fairy tales that are every bit as risible.
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Comments:
Waaaaaaiiiiiit a minute. I live in one of the most conservative parts of the country and I have yet to hear that Obama "stole" the election. Is this a Fox news poll or something.

And this about election fraud. My City Councilman was seated at a table next to me and was talking to others about voting processes etc. He just loved voting machines, like they were the black box of integrity. I leaned over and said, well of course, Bush stole the election in 2004 with voting machines--basically the best way to commit election fraud because it is the most efficient. He said, "Oh yeah, do you have any proof?. . .Not that I would believe you even if you do."

Nuf Said.
 
(Alas, a lot of people now seem to forget that both the catastrophe and the bailout occurred before the election.

True. HOWEVER... Obama left the campaign trail to whip the dem caucus to vote for the bailout; an effort he has failed to make for UHC or any other worthy legislation.

Also true Acorn didn't need to game the general. The primary, on the other hand, was stolen.
 
The voting machine issue is scandal. What the heck happened? After 2004, we raised hell as we pleaded for investigations, not only of the machines but also the companies that manufactured and maintained them. Being in Florida, I stayed involved and still am. We were promised investigation after investigation. In particular, we were promised major hearings in Congress by John Conyers. We had a few, no follow-up as the 2006 elections brought the Democrats to power. I guess if the machines can give us a democratic majority, the problems must be over (The corporations just gave the gov't to the Democrats - Republicans didn't want the mess).
We will never have another fair and free election in this country again. As far as ACORN and voter fraud. People are confusing the nomination and election. ACORN and others (the DNC) cheated to get Obama the nomination. The Republicans made sure he won the election. They created the mess, knew he'd screw up any kind of fix and the Democrats would get the blame for everything. Played right into their hands.
 
People don't know much and haven't been paying close attention, but they do know that trillions of dollars went out to the bankers courtesy of the taxpayers of the future.
—g.
 
The right has this fantasy that simply filling out and mailing in a voter reg form will get you registered to vote. In the real world, the post office does not deliver voter ID forms to addresses where they have not delivered to a person by that name. The voter id form is then returned to the county voter registrar and the name is dropped from the list. Fraudulently registering to vote is not as easy to do as it seems to the right.
 
I've heard it. It's part of the multi-prong attack on his legitimacy as president. If you don't agree that the Birthers have a case, you can still consider him illegitimate as not truly elected by majority vote.

Look, these memes go viral and become semi-immortal. How many people think La Palin said she could see Russia from her house (when that was La Fey)?

How many people still think Gore openly and illegally fund-raised at a Buddhist temple?

The Acorn message has been hit hard and often, however mendaciously. Somehow evidence of election REGISTRATION fraud (which ACORN reported to the authorities themselves) has been transmuted into proof of election fraud in the minds of far too many.

XI
 
My favorite fairy tale - cutting taxes increases government revenues.

I was young and dumb and voted for Reagan way back when and even then it didn't make sense.
 
Great post Joseph.

All I can say is that I believe our society is mentally ill and completely apathetic towards and oblivious of the truth. Everybody in this country goes on believing whatever the heck they want regardless of what actually is happening.

This all reminds me of that bunch of idiots in one of those Michael Moore movies (I think it was one of his) who built bombs and terrible ones at that. Those idiots were cheering and writing their names on the bomb, etc. so elated that their weapon of mass destruction was going to actually kill other people. What they didn't stop to realize or care was that those other people were often innocent men, women, and children.

The people of this country are undoubtedly "special" in so many ways that we have virtually invented our own kind of narcissistic evil and perpetuate our terrible deeds across the globe. Only in a mentally ill society can people blatantly disregard the truth on virtually every level and about virtually everything just so they can feel better about themselves or superior to someone else who happens to find themselves in less than ideal circumstances.
 
What was ACORN's role in the caucuses?
As far as who stole the 2000 elections, it was the media. They're the ones responsible for the vote being close enough to steal. They own the 911 and the Iraqi invasion dead as far as I'm concerned.
Help, Lassie! Timmie's fallen into the 8th circle and can't get out!
 
"... continually stunned by humanity's ability to believe in hallucinations."
->You may be helped ->
www.leadingtowar.com/synopsis.php
 
Did you mean brobdingnagian? Or is 'brobdinagian' the americanization-- like color, neighbor, y'alls and Babbydaddy?
 
I am sure the primaries were stolen. About the Republican half assed attacks on obama only a fool can believe they actually didn't have a hand on him in the WH. Why not as chomosky said corporations actually preffered him over Mcain so they gave him the big money. and so far he delivered what he promised them.
 
Was ACORN involved in the bullying of little old ladies in last year's caucuses? If so, then they helped steal the election (he couldn't have won the election if he hadn't "won" the primary) for Obama.

I don't know if it was, I'm just asking.

Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com
 
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Peter DeFazio for President! (I'm serious.)


Oregon Congressman Peter DeFazio is the first prominent Democrat to call for the firing of Larry Summers and Tim Geithner, the two Obama administration officials who gave Wall Streeters all the KY Jelly they needed to rape the taxpayers. DeFazio's candor impresses me. In fact, I'm so impressed that I want to run the words "DeFazio for President in 2012" past my audience.

Yeah, I know how most Americans will react to this suggestion: "Peter who?"

Perhaps the better question is: "Who else?"

Well, there's Obama. Believe it or not, I'd love for him to get his act together. I'd love to vote for a newer, smarter, better Obama in 2012. In all likelihood, though, his poll numbers will soon head into George-Bush-2007 territory. (And here's why.) That popularity plunge will, sadly, tar anyone connected to his administration -- including Hillary Clinton (who would make a fine president) and Joe Biden (whom I still like even though you probably don't).

2012 may resemble 1968, when Lyndon Johnson dropped out of the race due to his unpopularity. If RFK had picked up the nomination, Nixon would have lost. Instead, the candidate was Hubert Humphrey, a good man saddled with the unhappy job of being LBJ's veep. Many Dems thought that a vote for Humphrey was a vote for a continuance of the Johnson administration (and of the war).

We know what happened back then. That's why we need an outsider in 2012.

But we also need an insider -- someone who has spent many years in D.C., someone who knows how the system works. Both Dubya and Obama have taught us the dangers of inexperience.

Peter DeFazio is definitely a maverick. He's not part of what the Corrente bloggers call "Versailles." Yet he has been in Congress since 1987 -- and before that, he worked for Representative Jim Weaver. He knows his way around.

He comes from a purple-tinged rural state. I doubt that many country folk in the red states could ever really come to hate him, not in the way they instinctively hate big-city Easterners.

He did four years in the military during Vietnam. He has an unambiguous record of opposing gun control. He wants a big increase in pay for active-duty military personnel. He is a church-goer but not a religious nut.

All of this serves to preempt the more obvious lines of right-wing attack.

If Obama fails as badly as I think he'll fail, if populist outrage over the Wall Street handouts continues to gather force, then the Democrats in 2012 will be desperate to find someone in the party who opposed the Obama economic team from the very beginning. Alas, nearly all of the Democratic opposition came from Blue Dogs whose conservatism would alienate the progressive base and the netroots.

There is but one exception: Peter DeFazio. Let's look at the record:

He opposed the Iraq war from the start. He didn't just give one (1) speech against the invasion, as Obama did. He voted against it.

He offers genuine opposition to free trade agreements.

He opposed the stimulus bill because "I couldn't justify borrowing money for tax cuts." (Most Americans don't know that much of the stim bill went to tax cuts, not job creation.) This principled opposition sent Obama into Al Capone mode. He warned DeFazio: "Don't think we're not keeping score, brother."

That bit of Chicago-style thuggery could prove golden for DeFazio in 2012.

Here's DeFazio on TARP back in January:
I was wrong. It was actually worse than I thought it could be.
The reference goes to the first bailout vote, during the waning days of Bush. (Isn't it odd how many people now forget that this vote even occurred? And it was only a year ago!) DeFazio voted against the October, 2008 TARP plan "emphatically," offering a much more sensible alternative. He was not taken in by the NOW NOW NOW propaganda which was so prevalent at the time.
You know, what did we get for $350 billion? I mean, that's the question my constituents are asking. And that's now the question my colleagues -- even those who supported it -- are asking.
RYSSDAL: How are you going to vote this time when the second $350 billion comes up?

DeFazio: Well, first, today, I want to see these very strong restrictions put in place. But I'm still not inclined to vote for it. I wanted two amendments that aren't being allowed. I would have split the money and said, "OK, here's part of it. Let's see what you do with it." And then, secondly, I still want to impose a minuscule transfer tax, something we had in this country throughout the Great Depression, throughout World War II, up until the '60s, on stock transfers. It wouldn't hurt people in 401(k)'s. And legitimate traders it would be one-quarter of 1 percent, so Wall Street could pay to bailout itself.
That transfer tax -- a tax on stock trades -- is something I have advocated in a number of previous posts. Such a tax would have held in check the insane computerized trading we've seen recently, trading which enriched Goldman Sachs unfairly and led to an utterly distorted market. This proposal would have saved the taxpayers a lot of money.

His opposition to TARP makes him one of the few Democrats that right-wingers will listen to -- hell, even Alex Jones has had him on his show. Yet DeFazio's opposition to "corporate socialism" -- to Goldman Sachs and environs -- will endear him to all true liberals.

DeFazio would not be a perfect candidate. On the issues, he has made one major mistake: He voted for the House health care reform bill, which, if passed by the Senate, will soon be very unpopular.

He's not young. He's not colorful. His rhetoric does not soar. He looks and sounds like a guy who should be running a neighborhood grocery store.

But he has one thing in his favor -- a penchant for being right.

Some of my feminist readers will automatically disqualify him from consideration on the grounds that he has committed the sin of penis-ownership. I hope that his record will make his genitalia forgivable.

No-other left-wing Democrat -- not even Kucinich -- has so consistently and loudly opposed Obama's economic mismanagement. In 2012, many disillusioned progressives who had once backed Obama will thank all of heaven's angels that Peter DeFazio has compiled such a principled resume.
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Hee. We love him up here, too, Joe.

But if we're suggesting Oregonians for President, I gotta go with Ted Kulongoski. Pro-choice, pro-balanced budgets, pro-not-letting-CIA-agents-into-the-Oval-Office.
 
What the hell is "pro-penis ownership"? I really need to know what something is before I can be against it wholeheartedly.
 
In other words, you want him to prove his has a penis? That may be difficult for a politician, although Bill Clinton may be considered something of a pioneer.
 
I like him-- he sounds like me.
 
I always thought that indexing Capital Gains to the length an investment was held would help slow down Wall Street. That plus if you buy a house and live in it for 20 years paying the mortgage the selling price is yours when it comes time to move.
 
Good luck with that pick.

Not saying he doesn't have worthy policy positions. Saying he's both obscure and untelegenic by today's standards, under which an Eisenhower would be probably ruled out on grandfatherly appearance alone.

Not even the higher profile US senators generally succeed as presidential candidates coming out of the more prestigious chamber. Obama was the only sitting senator to gain the presidency since JFK (Hillary would have likewise won from her Senate spot, considering the extreme Bush/GOP fatigue in the electorate).

I sincerely doubt any sitting House member ever became president, even before the modern era, post WW-II.

Apart from the issue that it almost certainly cannot happen, I'm not sure his position on TARP makes sense. The alternative was for nearly every financial institution you've heard of to either themselves declare bankruptcy or be closed by regulators as insolvent, putting the entire shortfall on the taxpayers anyway. Those financial companies who weren't themselves insolvent would probably become insolvency when their counterparties to trades were unable to pay them. Basically, as I see it, there would have been no private capital lending ability at all, and not a single private financial firm standing.

It is far from clear to me that either doing nothing as to TARP, or taking direct seizure of these firms by the government would have been a better result.

The situation now is that a vast chasm of unredeemable debt is being papered over to portray some semblance of normalcy. Yes, it's fraudulent, but no, there is no better solution than this bad one. Take off that paper mache faux cover and look over the edge into the unfathomable financial abyss before deciding otherwise too quickly.

XI
 
Anonymous - I don't think any sane person is saying we shouldn't have done something last fall to stop the bleeding. What I hear DeFazio and even Krugman saying is that 1. there should have been conditions placed on the banks and the financiers and further, 2.that something needed to be done for Main Street. Now with conditions on the ground we can't do 1 and 2 because all the Obama administration did was bailout the lying, thieving, gambling crooks.
 
in 2012, if things keep going on the way they do, you'll have Petraeus as Pres, McChrystal as VP.

They won't be elected, but they'll promise to organize free elections when the country is stable again...
 
Dear Anon,

Conventional wisdom & talking points are usually wrong.

"Not even the higher profile US senators generally succeed as presidential candidates"

WHAT ABOUT LBJ?
 
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Thursday, November 19, 2009

Fire Timmy and Larry!


At last, a Democrat who makes sense. Peter DeFazio is a hero -- a good populist. (I apologize for not presenting this video clip earlier, as I should have.)

I want to see this message on t-shirts, coffee mugs, buttons and bumper stickers: FIRE TIMMY AND LARRY!

And while you are making up those bumper stickers, see both this excellent BBC documentary on "The Greed Game" and Ian Welsh's excellent post on the same topic. The bottom line is the same: The banks which received bailout funds will use the money not to get the economy going again but to buy up undervalued companies. Welsh has some common-sense suggestions regarding how to fix the problem, but he doesn't expect any action:
Why? Because everyone knows that fixing the problem will end the gravy train for a lot of very rich people. A lot of very rich people who give a great deal of money to Democrats in general, and gave a lot of money to Obama in particular. If the cost of keeping that gravy train and the donations it enables going is tens of millions of unemployed people, well, so be it. Because serious people know that real change isn’t going to happen under Obama or under this Democratic Congress, so there’s no point in even talking to people who might suggest it.
If only DeFazio -- not Obama, not Pelosi, not Reid -- were the face of the Democratic party. We have been betrayed.
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Congressman DeFazio hesitated when asked if he would tell Obama what he thinks. Until he and the rest of the Progressive Caucus start to really put the heat on and really go public with this nothing will happen. Unfortunately. Because he is absolutely right on what the problem is and how to begin to fix it.

It is interesting that Schultz had DeFazio on his show at all and allowed this discussion to take place since he was a big fan of Obama and trashed Hillary without any shame in the primary. I say to Ed – part of this mess we are in is your fault for promoting the most unqualified candidate for President.
 
La La Summers has GOT TO GO!

WV
 
As a former constituent of DeFazio's, I was mostly impressed by the choices he's made, including taking the money he has gotten from Congressional pay raises and turning them into need-based scholarships (which he says he intends to do until the federal budget is balanced)... to the tune of almost $300,000.

Where he pissed me off was when he announced he was supporting Obama... prior to the primary in Oregon. Obama won pretty handily in Oregon, and I would have not had so much of a problem with his support of Obama if he had done it AFTER the primary election.
 
Yes well there is a sort of Amnesia setting on among Obama supporters about what they actually supported.

Hopefully they all forget to look both ways before they cross the street as well.
 
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The ghost of Reagan


In the NYT, Nicholas Kristof offers a good piece on the reaction to Medicare legislation back in the 1960s. Medicare was called "the beginning of socialized medicine."
The Wall Street Journal’s editorial page predicts that the legislation will lead to “deteriorating service.” Business groups warn that Washington bureaucrats will invade “the privacy of the examination room,” that we are on the road to rationed care and that patients will lose the “freedom to choose their own doctor.”
All of these prophecies, like so many other conservative predictions, were proven wrong. Republicans had earlier peddled similar nonsense about Social Security.

(Speaking of hyperbolic predictions, am I the only one who recalls the NRA poster that popped up all over California in the 1980s, when a gun registration proposition appeared on the ballot? The poster conflated Holocaust imagery with the words: "First register the guns -- then register the Jews.")

The Daily Howler points out an important omission in Kristof's column: Ronald Reagan receives no mention. Reagan, now the subject of so many Republican hagiographies, made anti-Medicare pronouncements that one can only describe as totally bugfuck insane.
First you [the governement] decide that the doctor can have so many patients. ... So a doctor decides he wants to practice in one town, and the government has to say to him, "You can't live in that town, they already have enough doctors, you have to go live somewhere else. And from here it's only a short step to dictating where he will go. Pretty soon your son won't decide when he's in school where he will go or what he will do for a livin, but will wait for the government to tell him where he will go to work and what he will do. ...

And if you don't [stop Medicare] and I don't do it, one of these days you and I are going to spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it once was like in America when men were free.
Yet Ronald Reagan is now revered by many older Americans who depend on Medicare. They also depend on Social Security, brought to this nation by Franklin Roosevelt, whom the Republicans, the Freidmanites and the fundamentalists continually demonize. On the right, it is an article of faith that FDR caused the Depression -- as though Herbert Hoover had not been president for four miserable years. I wish Americans who believed this nonsensical revisionism would have the decency to refrain from cashing their Social Security checks.

Incidentally, the above clip from Michael Moore's Sicko does not specify (as it ought) that Reagan's recorded diatribe against socialized medicine was prompted, in large part, by the Medicare debate.

At the Howler, Bob Somerby writes:
We’re always struck by how long disinformation campaigns can persist without any real attempt at rebuttal by the liberal world. Why are these types of complaints still effective today? Because the liberal world has been so inept at fashioning counter-messaging. Example: Very few voters have ever heard the ludicrous predictions Reagan made. That’s because the liberal world has never had the first idea how to fashion political movements: How to spread information, potent messaging, frameworks for understanding.
Somerby is being a tad unfair. People on the left can create a political movement: The Obama hysteria of 2008 proves the point. I didn't like that movement, but it was a movement. (At issue is the question of whether it was truly a left-wing movement, since so many "former" libertarians were in charge of catapulting the propaganda.)

Beyond that, it seems unfair for Somerby to carp about an inability to fashion killer counter-arguments to popular right-wing fantasies. Instead of dissing others, why doesn't he school them on how to do the job right? He's been in business for the better part of a decade, and he hasn't figured out a strategy. All he can do is tell the truth as best he sees. That's all I can do. That's all most of us know how to do.

Obviously, that tactic is not good enough.

Earlier this year, those who argued in favor of nationalizing the too-big-to-fail banks could not reach the ears of those who made the decision. We told the truth as we saw it, but we could not create a movement.

Those who created the "Obama as socialist" propaganda meme do not care about mere truth-telling. They are in the advertising business. They have a product to sell -- an image, an idea. A movement.

We now face two big battles, and we have precious few resources with which to fight the ghost of Ronald Reagan:

1. Medicare for all. If the current health "reform" bill in congress fails, we must renew the fight for single-payer. Even if the current reform bill succeeds, we must still fight for single payer, because the American people will soon express their outrage at mandates and fines. We cannot let this bad bill define the left.

But with what weaponry shall we do battle? The Democrats depleted their stores of ammunition fighting for Pelosi's stupid legislation. The logical first step would be to concentrate on the state-by-state approach -- California and Vermont are ready to lead the way.

Alas, the ghost of Ronald Reagan remains a formidable opponent.

1. A real stimulus. Obama's stim package failed for one simple reason: Too much of it did not go toward the creation of jobs. It went to tax cuts, grants, unemployment benefits, and so forth. Can you think of a modern-day equivalent of the TVA or the WPA that was created by the stimulus bill? Mr. Obama, you ain't no FDR.

Yet now the conservatives can claim that what they are pleased to call "socialism" has been tried and has failed. Obama has clearly signaled that there will be no jobs-creating "Stim II" package, because the we've already gone too deeply into debt. The Republicans have made further stimulus politically impossible. They have convinced the nation, and perhaps the administration, that now is the time to pay back the unpayable deficit.

As Ed Harrison of Naked Capitalism notes:
The President just doesn’t seem to understand how the economy works frankly. Reducing deficits by cutting spending or raising taxes decreases aggregate demand. And it is a decrease in aggregate demand which would induce a double-dip recession.
Once again, we confront the ghost of Reagan. In this instance, however, the host is Janus-faced.

Face 1 depicts Reagan as the apostle of small government and balanced budgets. This was the face he presented to the world when running for office.

Face 2 is the real Reagan legacy, as summarized by the immortal words of Dick Cheney: "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter."

Except when a Democrat is in office, facing crushing unemployment. Then deficits matter.
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Comments:
Framing the health care debate from the beginning as "Medicare for All" and repeating those three words incessantly would have been yielded a much better result than the muddle we've gone through with the public option et al. "Single Payer" sucks in comparison, too - it has to be explained to people. "Medicare for All" doesn't.
 
Is single-payer also an article of faith? I favor universal healthcare but single-payer is only one approach. France, Germany and Japan have universal healthcare but not single-payer.
 
If Obama and the Democrats really wanted health care reform, all they would have had to do was 1.) open Medicare to anyone who wanted in; 2.) fund it; 3.) Try to weed out as much of the fraud in the system as humanly possible.

It would have been nice also for those wanting to continue with their insurance plan to allow insurance to be bought over state line.

2000 pages of bailouts to insurance companies was not the way to go. But Obama and democrats really didn't want health care reform. Sadly that is the bottom line.
 
The problem facing us is the current crop of Democrats will do nothing to bite the corporate hand that feeds them.
What Obama, Pelosi, Reid and others are doing is the political equivalent of pro-wrestling.
 
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Wednesday, November 18, 2009

Your health and the economy's health



Nice to see Michael Moore finally free himself from his illusions about Barack Obama. Too bad he couldn't give up his delusions about Hillary back in 2008.

On other fronts...

Brad DeLong used to scoff at the suggestion that we could enter a new Great Depression. Now he thinks that such an outcome is possible...
We could cushion the impact of another big downward shock by recapitalizing the banks again. But the failure of the Fed and the Treasury in the aftermath of Lehman to grab a share of the upside from its capital injection and purchase operations for the public in the form of warrants means that there is no coalition anywhere for a repeat or anything like a repeat of propping-up the banking system: the right thinks it is an unwarranted intervention in the free market, the left thinks that it is a giveaway to the undeserving and feckless superrich, and the center is bewildered because it is an enormous and poorly-structured intervention in the market, it is a giveaway to the undeserving and feckless superrich, and the optics are terrible.

So if another big bad shock hits the U.S. economy, what could the Obama administration possibly do?
Nothing. The new president had an enormous opportunity in the first half of 2009, and he squandered it. Future historians may one day recognize Obama's refusal to nationalize the "too big to fail" banks as the greatest mistake ever made by an American president -- greater, perhaps, than Dubya's decision to invade Iraq.

AIG was semi-nationalized
, but only as a giveaway to the great Wall Street financial firms. So says Neil Barofsky, the Special Investigator General for TARP:
The SIG TARP report noted that "structure and effect of the FRBNY's assistance to AIG ... effectively transferred tens of billions of dollars of cash from the government to AIG's counterparties."
Barofsky seems to be one of the few officials that has to tell us what we already know: TARP is "almost certainly going to be a loss" for taxpayers and Geithner rolled over for Wall Street in the AIG negotiations.
Krugman sums it up:
Brad DeLong says that the loss of public trust due to the kid-gloves treatment of bankers has raised the probability of another Great Depression, because the public won’t support another round of bailouts even if it becomes desperately necessary. I agree — but I think the bigger cost is that we’ve greatly increased the chance of a Japanese-style lost decade, with I would now give roughly even odds of happening. Why? Because bank-friendly policies have squandered public trust in all government action: try talking to the general public about stimulus, and it’s all confounded in their minds with the deeply unpopular bailouts.

By itself, the AIG story would be damaging enough. But it’s part of a pattern — and that pattern has ended up undermining the economy’s prospects, big time.
Even Krugman doesn't see the irony. It's true that the public no longer trusts government action; what's worse is the public sees that the public sees all action as socialism. So tell me -- in what book is kowtowing to Wall Street considered socialism? Well, maybe in some insane book written by Cleon Skousen and hawked by Glenn Beck. But any actual socialist would have been appalled by Larry and Timmy's scheme of transferring public monies over to the world's worst capitalists.

The noxious aroma created by the bailout now perfumes any moves that could actually benefit the working class. Obama turned an historic opportunity into an epic FAIL.

On the bright side: Goldman Sachs has formally apologized for its role in the crisis. Thanks, Goldman Sachs! It's all better now!
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Comments:
"Obama turned an historic opportunity into a [failure]."

No matter where your politics lie, this should not surprise you at all. Obama had reached the age of 47 without ever actually doing anything that was not of direct benefit to himself. He had a non-existent record of achievement and no record of successful governance...just like Bush*. He and Bush had a life of privilege and they both chose the path of nihilism.

Agree or disagree with their policies, Hillary, Gore, and Clinton, had long records and had buckled down early in life. Their live stand in stark contrast to the prodigal, children that make-up the Bush/Obama years.

Obama is Bush's third term.



*[in Texas, the governor is practically a figurehead, doing little to set policy]
 
Guess Moore detoxed!
No "Moore" ( pardon the pun) Jesus juice for him eh?
 
"Nice to see Michael Moore finally free himself from his illusions about Barack Obama. Too bad he couldn't give up his delusions about Hillary back in 2008."

the koolaid crowd chose to ignore what was right in front of their eyes in the race to stick it to a Clinton. we are soooo screwed. thanks, michael!
 
heh no worries, the economy will heal itself... 00 was born lucky so nobody will ever blame him for anything. Of course, scapegoats will be fired soon.
 
Hey, could we stop talking about all this bad stuff because I'm getting angry...and you won't like me if I'm angry. (Tah Dah-eyes get green, shirt starts to rip))
 
How can one apologise for doing the work of God?

Most odd.

Ana
 
Like Obama on the subject of Free Trade, Moore went to Canada to tell the truth. How much coverage is his speech getting in the US MSM? Zip to nil would be my guess.
 
I don't think Michael Moore has finally freed himself from any illusions about Obama whatsoever.

This is from Nov 5th on his Twitter account:
VA Dem running 4 guv OPPOSED Obama programs SO HE LOST. NY Dem for Cong. who SUPPORTED Obama became 1st Dem 2 win there since 1860s! Get it?

He's just doing his regular shtick in this video.

He can still go f*ck himself.
 
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About damn time

Nick Xenophon -- an Australian senator with a name right out of Marvel comics -- calls Scientology a criminal organization and has demanded a full investigation.
The South Australian parliamentarian said he had been contacted by a number of former Scientologists after questioning the organisation's tax exempt status in a recent television interview.

Senator Xenophon said their correspondence implicated the organisation in a range of crimes, including forced imprisonment, coerced abortions, embezzlement of church funds, physical violence, intimidation and blackmail.
In one, Paul David Schofield said his first daughter, Lauren, had died after she was allowed to wander around one of the Church of Scientology's Sydney buildings and fell down some stairs.

Mr Schofield's second daughter, Kirsty, also died, in this case after ingesting potassium chloride at the family home - a substance he said was used widely in the organisation's "purification" programs.

In another letter, Aaron Saxton said as a member of the organisation he participated in the "forced confinement and torture" of others.
I had heard about the forced imprisonments conducted by the so-called "Rehabilitation Project Force" -- although as I understand it, Hubbard usually enforced this policy on the high seas, during his Captain Bligh period. However, this is the first account I've run into concerning Scientology's use of potassium chloride, which is used to kill people during executions by lethal injection. I wonder what the Hubbardians are doing with the stuff?

If you check Google Video, you'll find some good documentaries about Scientology, most of them produced by the BBC. This 1967 video shows Hubbard flat-out lying on camera about his previous marriages. The true facts were a matter of public record, and Hubbard knew that. Moreover, he knew that his interviewer knew. Yet he lied anyways, contradicting himself -- and actually seemed to believe what he said at all times. That's the scary part.

This recent ABC investigation would tend to buttress Xenophon's allegation. Check out the "salute the dog" section!
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Xenophon? More like Xenuphobe. I am sorry, that was bad.

You are right it is damn time someone step up to these... people. A person with power, not some small group of mask-wearing folks. Governments seriously need to take them on.
 
http://www.exscientologykids.com

Broke my heart this morning. It also has some new info on it I'd never read before--an estimate that 10,000-20,000 people are in the insance, abusive Sea Org. I had no idea it was that high.
 
Thanks for the link, Nibbles. That's an excellent site. They have a good summary of the Xenu material.

Many years ago -- late 1980s -- a folder of documents circulated around fringe circles. (I knew a lot of weirdos in those days.) These pages were written by a guy whose name I can't recall, but he basically did a stint as Hubbard's auditor -- which is sort of like being the Pope's confessor. Hubbard produced a lot of material in his last years, which he spent mostly bombed out of his mind. These post-OT3 revelations began with these portentious words:

"XENU HAS ESCAPED!"

You see, in the standard OT3 mythos, Xenu was imprisoned for his crimes within a mountain on a distant planet. But in this material -- OT IV material, I guess -- he had pried himself loose and made his way to Teegeeack, a.k.a. Earth.

Hubbard then went on to name the world leaders who had been possessed by the spirit of Xenu. Among them was FDR. Not Hitler, not Stalin: FDR.

Physical infirmity was, in LRH's view, a sign of Xenu-ness.

There was a lot more -- the stuff got wackier and wackier -- but I can't recall it. I lost the papers years ago. I know that other collectors of fringe ephemera must still have this material. The Scientologists will no doubt claim that it is all a forgery, and that the man who wrote it is what they call a "squirrel." But I think this stuff really did reflect Hubbard's actual craziness.

If anyone still has this stuff, I'd be very grateful if he could share it. I would be happy to publicize it.

If you look at the Hubbard sf books published post-mortum, you'll see indications that he had read a LOT of right-wing conspiracy theory.
 
Sorry, Nibbles. I've been doing a little more reading just now, and it turns out that Xenu's mountain prison was not on a distant planet, but somewhere in the Pyrenees.

I KNEW there was something about that area of the globe that appealed to me!
 
The Xenu stuff is just so goddamn nutbar. You wonder how anyone can get sucked into that.

ESK.com had another piece of info about Scientology I'd never read on that very question--they mention that one reason people feel compelled to stay with The Church, even after getting hip to the Xenu garbage, is that The Church has many of them convinced that Scieno disciples are saving the planet. Saving the planet. I didn't realize that in addition to emotional blackmail, physical degradation, programming and abuse, the Scientology overlords used moral justification to cement the conditioning. Terrible.
 
Nibbles, earlier this evening I looked up Xenu on YouTube and found a three-part audio lecture by Hubbard in which he reveals the Xenu mythos back in 1967. The audience titters at first -- they seem to think that Hubbard is describing a mere story -- but then they fall silent.

Hubbard keeps nattering on and on, rapid fire, obviously making much of the story up off the top his head, pausing only to take small drags off his Kools. He almost seems to be in an altered state of consciousness. Listening to him speak, I understood those stories I had heard about how, in his science fiction days, he was known as the world's fastest writer -- he would type not on sheets of paper but on ROLLS, so he didn't have to pause.

One other thing soon becomes clear: The guy was schizophrenic. I mean in a clinical sense. I'm not a psychiatric professional, but I strongly believe that a shrink would come to the same conclusion.

As he goes on, much of what he says simply makes no sense. It is gibberish, even if we allow for the fact that he made up a lot of in-house terminology.

Tommy Davis and David Miscaivage also appear to have severe troubles.

What a strange phenomenon!
 
"You wonder how anyone can get sucked into that."

...as opposed to getting suckered into a theosophical school who's godhead is an angry jealouse guy who writes down everything you do, and likes only 1/1000th of his population, and grants them special real estate deals?
Or how about the God who loves us so much that he damns us for all eternity, out of love? ...or how does one get sucked into the insanity that Jesus came to America, to Salt Lake, or of course the 72 Virgins religions, the snake handlers, the shakers (now those ones were smart in the sense that they had an expiry date built in).

Are any of these logical? Is there even one that accepts all others as equal? Can we get a big box, and take Adonai, Jesus and Ghosts, Alla, and Xenu and put them in that same box with Remus and Zeus and Baal and the Mayan gods who liked to see living hearts ripped from slaves and virgins.... all in a box! Lock it! I know it wont happen tomorrow, but can't we get over all of this shit already??
 
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Tuesday, November 17, 2009

KSM in NY

Why didn't the United States agree to have Khaled Sheikh Mohammed tried in an international war crimes tribunal? Perhaps because the U.S. does not want to lose control of the proceedings. If control were lost, certain little-discussed aspects of the case might come out -- such as the fact that the CIA has been holding KSM's young children hostage for years. As a released document revealed, the CIA told KSM that his children would be killed.

Given the circumstances, we may expect a quick guilty plea. Certain right-wing pundits are screaming that KSM could engineer a successful defense. Such claims are pure propaganda.
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!!
 
We all know trying the terrorists in international courts was never on the table. That would be too awesomely cool.

After a year, we can see that Obama has a seriously defective table, in the sense that the cool stuff never gets onto it. It doesn't get get taken--it never shows up in the first place, and Obama simply acts like everything is on the level.

What a flaming fraud, huh?

Single-payer was never on the table. Restructuring the banks was never OTT. Withdrawing from Afghanistan was never OTT. Investigating Bush-Cheney war crimes was never OTT. Chicago Blue Dog No. 1 desperately needs a new table.
 
The sad part of this is that there are some out there who will applaud the holding of the children and the death threats.
Makes you wonder if Obama is trying to capture some of the Bill Clinton magic by holding the trial in NYC.
Shades of the Blind Sheik.
 
I don't think it was even a possibility to take this into international court had we wanted to, as I am unaware of any international court with jurisdiction in these matters.

(The new one created in the aftermath of 9/11 doesn't have jurisdiction for matters occurring prior to its formation.)

And besides, it is typical for such perpetrators to get multiple trials in lesser jurisdictions in serial fashion, such as when Timothy McVeigh faced Oklahoma state charges after the federal charges were brought in federal court. Multiple bites at the capital punishment apple: if the federal trial doesn't result in the death penalty, perhaps the state trial may.

So some trial in the US would be the norm even if there was also an international body trial.

XI
 
I will be very curious to see what evidence the state can assemble that is actually admissible. The FBI has acknowledged that it has insufficient hard evidence to indict Osama for 9/11.

I will also be curious to see how tolerant the court will be of a broad defense.
 
The 5 to be tried in NY (civil court) have all without wavering said they will plead guilty. They want to "die as martyrs."

Meanwhile, stopping the military courts has left dozens of innocents - so called, i.e. expected to be released - in a new, extended limbo.

Probably worse for them than before.

News about the Gitmo and other prisoners being simple bodies snatched and sold is now coming out in the mainstream (not in the US), as usual at least 5 years too late.

see for ex. J Harding's review in the London Review of Books of Fletcher and Stover's book on Gitmo.

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v31/n21/jeremy-harding/terrorist-for-sale

Ana
 
What IF they weren't the ones who planned 911?

Marty Didier
Northbrook, IL
 
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Obama will toss us to the YAFs (Added note on risque Chinese public art)

Reversal of Fortune: Mexicans are sending money to their poor relations in the United States.
Also in Chiapas, a poor state that sends many migrants to the United States, María del Carmen Montufar has pooled money with her husband and other family members to wire financial assistance to her daughter Candelaria in North Carolina.
At one small bank in Chiapas that used to see money flowing in from the United States, more money is going out than coming in.
So what's Obama gonna do? He's going to go on a fact-finding mission -- a nationwide tour -- one which will take months to complete. (Thanks, lambert.)
With the nation's unemployment rate at its highest level in 26 years, President Obama plans to bring together CEOs, small business owners and financial experts to sound out ideas for continuing to expand the economy and create jobs.
In other words, he's going to go around the country looking for more YAFs to talk to. Well, it beats actually doing something.

And what's a YAF?
That's my new pet acronym: YAF -- Yet Another Friedmanite. (As in Milton Friedman.)

Wherever you go in the United States, whenever you turn on the radio, you run into a YAF. You can find pro-war YAFs and anti-war YAFs, insider YAFs and counter-culture YAFs, right-wing YAFs and left-wing YAFs, atheist YAFs and fundamentalist YAFs. The Obama administration is at least 80% YAF. The anti-Obama teabag movement is 100% YAF. YAFs are the thesis and the antithesis -- and thus any conceivable synthesis must be a YAF synthesis. They are on every side of nearly every issue, yet they all serve the same purpose: They exist to tell you that Keynesianism is the problem, not the solution.

After what the YAFs did to Russia, Chile, Iraq and the United States, you'd think that their Miltonian movement would be discredited by now. But the YAFs, through some YAFfy magic, always manage to present themselves as the exemplars of an untried ideal. They've been spewing YAFfiness for decades, yet they always convey the shock of the new. And every disaster they have created is ascribed not to Friedmanism but to the lack thereof.

Your home's on fire? Pour on some gas. It'll put the flames out -- or so the YAFs keep telling us.

A subsidiary of the YAF infestation is the YAL (Yet Another Libertarian) phenomenon. The internet presences who foisted Obama on the world -- Moulitsas, Sullivan, Aravosis, DAH-link Arianna, and possibly Marshall -- all began as YALs. Maybe they still are.

China: Paul Krugman is one of the few prominent non-YAF voices out there. You should read his recent piece on China's intentionally weakened currency.
So picture this: month after month of headlines juxtaposing soaring U.S. trade deficits and Chinese trade surpluses with the suffering of unemployed American workers. If I were the Chinese government, I’d be really worried about that prospect.
I'd be even more worried if I were an unemployed American worker. Oh, wait a minute: I am.
Unfortunately, the Chinese don’t seem to get it: rather than face up to the need to change their currency policy, they’ve taken to lecturing the United States, telling us to raise interest rates and curb fiscal deficits — that is, to make our unemployment problem even worse.
And that's exactly what will happen. Obama is under all sorts of pressure not to institute another stimulus. Instead, all the conventional wisdom spewers insist that NOW NOW NOW is the time fix our unfixable deficit. And we need to raise interest rates NOW NOW NOW in order to fight inflation -- which doesn't exist. All of which means that SOON SOON SOON we will have 25% unemployment, maybe worse.

Okay. So if nobody in this country has a job, who will buy all that Chinese-produced crap filling up our Wal-Marts?

Or maybe...

(Let us recall our first story, the one about Mexicans bailing out their relatives in the U.S.)

...maybe the Chinese want to keep the yuan weak in order to make sure that Chinese WalMarts don't fill up American-produced crap.

Did you know that there are WalMarts in China? The photo to your left depicts one in Dongguan.

I spent some time this morning doing a Google Earth flyover of Dongguan and Guangshou and environs. Yes, I know that there were some very sizable layoffs there recently. Still, just about everything there looks prosperous, sleek, modern, clean, well-designed, impressively-sized and newly-built. How is China able to do it? Maybe because the political culture has managed to stay relatively YAF-free. If we want to fix the trade imbalance, we need to flood the place with Chicago School graduates -- pronto.

Meanwhile, folks in Mexico are sending relief aid to their poor relations in the U.S...

Added note: Wow. Public sculpture in Dongguan is pretty hot. Although the Chinese may be moving ahead of us, at least one Chinese fellow seems happy to be behind.

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Comments:
Someone once compared the laissez-faire capitalist idealogues with the farmer who tried to train his horse to live without food. Every time he got one almost trained, it died. Milton Friedman once told Ted Kennedy that socialism had failed everywhere it had been tried, which is true. But that is true of Friedmanesque laissez-faire capitalism. Now, some of the true believers will say that it has never been tried. But then how do they know it will work? It works in theory, but everything works in theory.The test of a theory is does it work in the real world.

Socialism is a discredited 19th century ideology. No one seriously today advocates nationalizing the means of production. LF capitalim is also a discredited 19th century ideology, but a few haven't figured it out yet. All non-idiots today recognize the need for regulation, and the desireablity of a social welfare support system. The rest is detail and the details are important. That leaves the idiots, and you cannot argue with idiots. (Or you shouldn't anyway, a lesson I think it took Joseph a while to learn.)Unfortunately the idiots today comprise 20-30% of the population (most on the Right, some on the Left).

But if everyone believes in regulation and social welfare, then it does become a question of how much and what kind, and people can disagree on the details while still sharing basic values and goals.

But first we need to kill all the Republican.
 
Joe,

Four time in the past decade I've visited greater Guangzhou, China, where one of my brothers teaches English and another teaches golf to the new class of robber barons. The province just across the border from Hong Kong--Guandong, formerly known as Canton--is the manufacturing center of the world and the most bomming place on the planet. It's like "Blade Runner": World-class skyscrapers rising in rice paddies, impossible opulence, neon everywhere. Centralized authority allows the Chinese to level whole cities--or build new ones--with the stroke of a pen. (Hence the displacement of millions of peasants by the Three Gorges Dam project.) Yes, they have Wal-Marts, and 7-Elevens and a lot of KFCs. (The Colonel is practucally a demi-god.) But I rarely see American goods there--except for pirated DVDs--because we make almost nothing that the Chinese don't make cheaper and better for themselves.

Granted, they've got a huge pollution problem from all their factories and coal-burning power plants. But they are also investing heavily in solar, wind and hydro-electric technologies. They're thinking long-term--as they've done for thousands of years.

You can't go to China without coming to this conclusion: Game over.
 
Thanks for the report, TJ. And it can be confirmed by pretty much anyone with Google Earth. That whole area looks like -- well, like the way we always imagined The Future would look. Did you see the Crowne hotel in Science City? UnbeLIEVable!

But I know a way to bring it all down. We need to find a way to send them our most important export: CHICAGO SCHOOL ECONOMISTS!

Beyond that: Translate the works of Ayn Rand into Chinese, then air-drop millions of her books over the great Chinese universities.

We need to put together a Grover Norquist battalion to overrun Chinese intellectual life. For a mere $20 million, we could pay a dozen Austrian schoolers to learn Chinese and infiltrate Guangdong.

Also, they need some YAFfy conspiracy theorists on late-night radio. A brigade of Chinese Alex Joneses, capturing the crowds with sensational accusations.

I tells ya, we can have the whole place looking like Detroit within fifteen years!
 
We had the same discussion in this country about Japan 20 years ago.

China is reaching its Zenith now. But the Achilles heal of China is and always has been social unrest.It is not easy to order around all those people spread out over all that territory.

If unemployment rises just a few points people get quite upset, and the whole country goes into lock down mode. And if the economy is based on exports, and the standard of living keeps rising, then they will soon not be able to undersell their competition, and unemployment will have to rise.

Not to wish the Tibet stamping Chinese any ill will-but when unemployment starts to rise rapidly in China-well-what was that expression that was just used...game over.
 
I wonder what Robert would have thought of the self centered aspects the objectivists worship.
juvenile delinquent' is a contradiction in terms. `Delinquent' means `failing in duty.' But duty is an adult virtue -- indeed a juvenile becomes an adult when, and only when, he acquires a knowledge of duty and embraces it as dearer than the self-love he was born with. There never was, there cannot be a `juvenile delinquent.' Robert Heinleim's -Starship Troopers

What gets me about them is how they think people will behave rationally out of self interest, but then do everything in their power to prevent punishment for mis deeds. It has to fail on that accord alone. People will take unlimited risk with limited danger. Which is good in areas that are safe, but unfortuitous in arenas of piossible danger to societal bonds, such as the ones we have in a modern economy.


I apologise for my writing style and skills, I can talk better than I can write, my fingers simply can't keep up with my mouth.

purenoiz
BTW, Joeseph I just watched the German film der leben das anderen, about the stassi. Compare their action to what FB etc lays out, and the telecom protections, I thinkk we should be scared of this and any other administration. Is that Mcarthy knocking again?
 
If the Chinese were thinking long term "for centuries" how does that explain the situation they found themselves in when confronted by British capitalism 150 years ago ?

Chinese banking is held together by the export surplus. If exports collapse then their banking system does as well. Massive government investment can only continue as long as losses are papered over by that surplus.

This is why China will never listen to the West when it comes to yuan revaluation - and why confrontation is unavoidable. Unfortunately for China, they are resented by other Asian 'elites' as well as those in the West.
 
I was in China last May and TJ is right, there are unbelievable building booms going on. There is great prosperity, but there is still a lot of grinding poverty. I had the opportunity to go off the beaten path and even on the little islands an hour off the coast of Shanghai, there were vast empty condo developments that seemed to be built in anticipation of prosperity, but a lot of people were very, very poor, living in ancient huts amid piles of garbage, often side-by-side with modern buildings.
Everywhere you can see that the government is trying to employ as many people as possible, as there are women with giant brooms sweeping the squares, flowers everywhere that need tending. Even the highways in Shanghai and Beijing are decorated with flowers, with flower boxes even hanging on the rails of the overpasses. The Chinese love to decorate!
And yes, they need to keep working on the air pollution. The air is really thick in places.
I would love to go back again.
 
To commenter Purple (above): Chinese civilizaton has flourished not just for centuries but for more than three millennia. No other civilization on earth can compare to that kind of longevity. Protected by desert to the northwest, the Himalayas to the southwest, and the Pacific to the east, it flowered in relative isolation. Granted, when the Chinese empire opened up to Western powers like England, its resource were exploited; but by biding its time, China got back the now-propserous enclave of Hong Kong--for free--and China's economy has now leap-frogged England's. So who won? China's GDP is now third in the world, behind Japan and the U.S. Unlike the Japanese, the Chinese have enough raw materials and a big enough labor force to be self-sufficient, like America in the 20th century. Yes, the Chinese are now affected by global economics, and they face the challenges of pollution and income inequality. But they've got the wherewithal to endure, including the world's largest army and vast reserves of the competitors' currency. They can and do wait for their opportunities.

In the 1970s, Chinese premier Zhou En-Lai was asked what he thought of the French Revolution. He famously replied: "It's too early to tell."
 
anon 9:37
The first thing Robert would do would be to take the "right" to vote away from people for being mere citizens and make it an "earned privilege".
 
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Monday, November 16, 2009

Woah!


This blog normally publishes non-political material on the weekends, which means that this video arrives some 90 minutes over the limit line. But I just had to share this YouTube discovery, because it's the trippiest thing since Inland Empire. Does anyone out there know who put this sequence together...? (Feel free to 'shroom while watching, but don't hold me responsible for the consequences.)
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Comments:
Joe - It's even more amazing than you know: All the dancers are deaf.

The video is of the Thousand-Hand Guan Yin, as performed by the China Disabled People’s Performing Art Troupe. A search for "Thousand-Hand Guan Yin" will bring up additional photos and footage.

http://laughingsquid.com/deaf-chinese-dancers-perform-of-the-thousand-hand-guan-yin/

On occasion I've violated somebody's copyright by using clips from this video while VJing.
 
Deaf...?

You

are

shitting

me

HolyholyholySomethingorother. My brain just exploded.
 
Incredible...
 
i wonder how many VJs read cannonfire (me I only mix koyanisquatsi w/ feedback loops, but hey, somebody's gotta suck)
 
I've been doing some research. Turns out that in Japan, the goddess represented in this video is called -- er, um -- Kannon. That's a corruption of Guan Shi Yin, meaning The One Who Hears All Who Cry Out In Pain.
 
Mr. Joseph, speaking of visuals, and trippy, have you seen this 1961 short film?
http://www.nfb.ca/film/Very_Nice_Very_Nice/

..and/or know the story about Lipsett, Larkin, and all the other NFB Casualties of cointelpro?
 
When I saw this some years ago I assumed it portrayed a Hindu deity. Guess the multi-armed motif was more popular than I knew.

XI
 
Beautiful..... Absolutely beautiful!
 
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Sunday, November 15, 2009

Abortion and single payer (added note)

I'm going to attempt an answer to a question I posed a couple of posts down:
Let us posit an alternate universe in which single payer, or something happily close to it, is under discussion right now in Congress. How would we handle the question of abortion?

I would want the procedure to be both legal and covered by nationalized health insurance. Yet I can muster up some sympathy for those who say that they do not want their tax dollars to support what they consider to be murder. Can you, as a mental exercise, cobble together an arrangement?
Many of my readers won't see the problem here. They will respond: Keep abortion legal, let the (posited) national health insurance program pay for it, and tell any complainers: "Suck that."

As quixote at The Confluence says of the instantly notorious Stupak amendment:
What if the amendment read, “Hair straightening is unnatural and immoral. No medical costs associated with complications can be paid for using any Federal tax dollars.” Would he be as tolerant of that viewpoint? Male circumcision is an unnecessary procedure whose only health benefit comes from compensating for poor hygiene (or, in the case of AIDS, from the unnaturally thickened skin of the glans). Would he be as quick to understand people with moral objections to the deformation of men?
Those examples are meant to be humorous, so I suppose it would be churlish to point out that circumcision prevents cancer of the penis (for which Dr. Edward Scissorhands can perform the only known cure), while the main complication of hair straightening is a chemical burn -- which, though rarely serious, stings like the devil. (I once had crazy ideas about taming my curly and gravity-defying beard. We will not discuss the results.)

As a matter of political -- not medical -- reality, we cannot equate abortion to any other procedure. On this topic, tempers reach surface-of-the-sun temperatures. Murder has been done. The national division of opinion is roughly even, and both sides refuse to grant the other even the faintest shred of moral legitimacy. The anti-abortion advocates have just as much contempt for their foes as their foes have for them. No-one will ever agree to disagree.

Partisans on both sides have but one message for their foes: "We're right; you're wrong; suck that."

You're a fool if you think that single-payer legislation -- already a contentious issue -- will come to pass if pro-abortion advocates take a "suck that" attitude toward anti-abortion advocates. It just won't happen.

Don't hit me with "should" arguments: I'm not talking should. It just won't happen.

Politics is the art of the possible, and your "suck that" fantasy simply is not possible. If, in your view, there can never be single payer legislation without "suck that," then single-payer will never, ever happen.

I don't like this situation, but I recognize its existence. Nevertheless, I think that any national health insurance scheme should pay for abortions.

What, then, to do?

First, let's figure out how much money we are talking about. There are under a million abortions in any given year in the United States. The cost is small: About $200-$400. Since a nationalized health insurance scheme will save money, let's use the lower figure. The overall cost of all abortions each year will be under $200 million. That's a piddling amount when compared to the overall cost of health care in the United States -- which, by my rough calculation, is somewhere on the order of (yow!) $2.1 trillion.

So it's just a matter of raising $200 mill. Or rather: It's a matter of making sure that the $200 mill won't come out of the pockets of those who cannot tolerate the thought of abortion's legality.

My proposed scheme is simple: Two national health insurance plans -- Plan A, for people who think that abortion should be legal, and Plan B, for those who think otherwise. Both plans will be paid for by taxes. Plan B -- the anti-abortion plan -- will cost less than Plan A. How much less? The difference will come to maybe a buck-fifty a year. In other words: If you are anti-abortion, at tax time you will get to keep six extra quarters, give or take two bits, and you can rest assured that not one penny of your money will go toward an operation you find abhorrent.

Won't everyone join Plan B, in order to save those sheckles? Nah.

The amount of money is negligible, and those who want to maintain the legality and availability of abortion are both numerous and passionate. Remember, we need to raise a mere $200 million. I think we can get to that goal easily.

What about women in the Plan B club who have a sudden change of heart due to an unwanted pregnancy? Let them switch over to Plan A at will; they may then have the abortion. But make sure they understand that they will be paying the extra $1.50 for the rest of their lives. They're on the A team now.

And don't presume that only women will join the Plan A club. A lot of men want to keep all options open, if only because a lot of men know what it's like to regret a drunken tryst. I believe that there will be just as many males as females who choose A.

Some of you are probably fuming. "If the anti-abortionists can withhold taxes on their pet issue, then why should I have to pay for our military presence in Iraq and Afghanistan? That's unfair!"

Damn right it's unfair. I freely admit it.

But look at it this way: The current health care reform bill is a botch which will probably fail to pass the Senate. The reform debate will then go back to square one. And even if Obama does sign some sort of hideous "health" bill, the new plan will soon piss off most Americans, and many will demand reform of the reform. Again, we'll be back at square one.

At that moment, single-payer advocates must have their act together.

They will have a tough time being heard, because the conservative propaganda machine will shout with a million voices: "We tried socialized medicine and it didn't work!" Nevertheless, we must continue to fight for single-payer, for the simple reason that no other system will work.

The odds are already against us. Why would we want to do anything that would make the job even tougher?

If you insist on your "suck that" fantasy out of principle, then single-payer will never happen. It should, but it won't. If, on the other hand, you can bend your principles just enough to allow for my "Plan A and Plan B" scheme, then the impossible dream instantly becomes an almost-impossible dream.

Added note: I think some feminists will presume that only women will pay the extra dollar or two that Plan A requires, what with all men being pigs and all. According to this Pew poll, Democratic men and women supported abortion rights in roughly equal numbers -- until 2008, when a nine percent gender gap occurred. What's the reason for the gap? I don't know; one can only speculate. Maybe the poll numbers will be even again next year.

Now here's an interesting figure: Among men overall (Dem and Rep), 52% supported abortion in 2007. The number is now down to 44%. That's an eight point spread. A noted above, the drop was nine points among Democratic men. In other words, support for abortion dropped further among male Dems than among male Republicans. I wonder why?

Barely 50% of the women in this country support abortion -- a five point drop since 2007. The overall support for abortion rights is now a mere 47%, a worrisome figure. I don't think these numbers provide abortion supporters with a position of strength, frankly. I don't think 47 percent provides a good foundation for anyone who wants to say: "I think Pat Robertson should pay every bit as much as I do for nationalized on-demand abortions."

Come on. The difference between Plan A and Plan B is only a couple of bucks a year -- tops. It's not that big a deal!

Added added note: I looked again at the Pew poll. Interesting numbers on the religious front: Among evangelical Protestants, 23% support abortion rights and 71% say abortion should be illegal. (No surprise there.) Among those awful, awful Cat-licks, opinion is evenly split: 45% fer, 45% agin. Those numbers mirror the roughly even split we see in the overall population. Yet when liberals and feminists assign blame for atrocities like the Stupak amendment, guess which religious group receives the most venomous insults?

Catholicism. It's the religion everyone loves to hate!
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Comments:
Just as there is no male condition comparable to pregnancy, there is no compromise on abortion.

None.

It may seem irrational to you, but there it is.
 
This post has been removed by the author.
 
What is irrational is that you thought I had asked you to compromise when in fact I did not. I offer a scheme which would keep abortion legal, available to all, and 100% covered by nationalized health insurance.

I think this is one of those "reading comprehension" posts, where people are bound to read things I did not write. Always happens when one addresses a hot button topic.
 
By the way -- right now, most women pay for their own abortions, because they do not want employers knowing about their personal lives. So my "Plan A" approach is much better than the current system, because it insures privacy and no immediate out-of-pocket expenses.
 
Thoughtful. Well reasoned. But ... I think it ultimately devolves into "separate but equal." And we all know what that means.

I suggest instead that we beat these hypocrites at their own game.

If "murder" is the line in the sand (which, of course, it isn’t, but let’s pretend), then I would demand, in exchange for allowing anti-choicers not to have the government pay any costs associated with abortion, a Plan A and Plan B on covering - or not covering - state-sanctioned first-degree murder (that is, the death penalty and war, any war). I do not see abortion as murder, but I certainly see killing a living breathing human being as murder.

My Plan B anti-murder costs would be a tiny fraction of what the Plan A costs would be, especially since I would want the government to guarantee that not one penny of government money go to subsidize murder, even in the most indirect way.

Yes, yes. War is covered by tax dollars, not insurance. But, indirectly, VA benefits are, to some degree, the result of war. That’s government-subsidized health care. So start there. Or - more logically - since my religion (my religion simply being my own personal ethos) requires no complicity in murder, and since we seem to be all about respecting an individual’s religious beliefs on the topic of murder, pass legislation changing the tax code in acknowledgment of my deeply held "religious" beliefs. After all, we're talking about MURDER here. Right? I’m entitled to the same deference as an anti-choicer, right? I respect life. Where’s the respect for my views on murder?

Of course, that’s because this issue is not about murder. It’s about control – control of a woman’s body – and her sexuality. It’s about interfering with a woman’s right of privacy and personal autonomy. I picked someone up from an abortion clinic a few months ago. I couldn't even find the place because it had to be hidden - hidden. It was like I was a criminal walking in there - and I wasn't even getting an abortion. I was shocked. I remember back in the day when my Park Avenue gynecologist performed abortions regularly, as part of his practice. Last I heard, abortion is still legal, so why am I treated like a criminal?

Will they soon have the right to plaster an “A” (for abortionist) on my forehead? (And, believe me, by having a Plan A and a Plan B, those of us with Plan A would each have a figurative “A” on her or his forehead. Switching over to Plan A? Oh the shame. The public humiliation.) Man, this stuff makes me sick

Bringing me back to single-payer government-run health care. No insurance companies whatsoever. If you oppose abortion and you’re a female, don't have one. If you’re a male and you oppose abortion, don’t have sex with a woman. Guaranteed fool-proof. If you oppose war, don't enlist. If you don’t want to sit at a counter with an African-American, don’t. If homosexuality makes you nauseous, don’t engage in it.
 
Well, anon, I think you are standing on principle at the expense of those who need health coverage. I mean, I'm not asking for any limits on abortion. My idea only speaks to the way the coverage is paid for.

You may be right about the "scarlet A" thing. But then again, how would anyone know which box you tick when you fill out your tax form?

Even if that were public knowledge -- which it wouldn't be -- so what? If you tick off the Plan A box, you are not saying "I have had an abortion." You are saying "I favor a woman's right to choose, and I am willing to back up that opinion to the tune of an extra 75 cents a year."

I wouldn't mind putting those words on a t-shirt, although I'm sure that I would get the oddest looks!
 
Anon, I've been thinking more about what you've said. No, it's NOT "seperate but equal." Asking abortion supporters to kick in an extra couple of bucks at tax time will not lead to anything like separate drinking fountains. Yours is, in essence, a "slippery slope" argument -- a classic logical fallacy.

"Of course, that’s because this issue is not about murder. It’s about control – control of a woman’s body – and her sexuality."

No, it's about political heft. Look at the poll numbers referenced in my added note. Abortion rights are supported by only 47 percent of the country -- and the difference between men and women is only 6 points, by the way: 50 to 44.

47 percent. You're in a weak position, yet you talk as though you have 97 percent of the population on your side. I'm reminded of that scene in "Life of Brian" where the eight-person radical group schemes to take over the entire Roman empire in a year: "It won't be easy, Reg. Let's face it -- as empires go, this is the big one!"

Your numbers are soft. Your position is weak. You can scream "should be, should be, should be..." But "should be" is SHIT. What matter is what IS. The only thing that counts in this world is power, and you have only 47% of the power you think you do.

Under the circumstances, my plan -- abortion supporters kick in an extra couple of bucks each year, in return for which we all get single payer health care -- is hardly The Creeping Terror.

As for your other suggestion -- not paying taxes for war and other awful things -- great! I love it!

You know what else we should do? Put a bell around the cat's neck. That way, we'll hear him every time he tries to sneak up on us...
 
I started writing my response to your first response, but got called away. So this is my response to your first response.

Damn straight I'm standing on principle.

And I'm not doing it at the expense of anyone. It's the anti-choicers who have chosen this fight. Not me. I will never back down. (That's also known as, by the way, successful negotiating.) Not one inch. (I’ll accept your solution only on the condition that my tax dollars don’t go to the death penalty or war. If the anti-choicers are truly against abortion on religious grounds, which they claim must be respected, then they must allow me the right not to fund war or the death penalty on the same grounds. This is the argument that should be used – over and over again, in direct confrontation.) They’re just bullies. Well, they can’t bully me. Or foist on me the notion that, because I’m taking a stand for my personal autonomy, others will be hurt. Nope.

Further, I am not accepting for one second your implied belief that those who need health care will get it with the crap legislation pending now (not that I could make it through that morass). As far as I know, there are no price caps on covering preexisting conditions, for example. So, yeah, technically I could get coverage (except for all the needs of my scary female parts) - except I can't afford it - so then I get to pay a fine. Absurdity to the nth degree. What's next? Debtors' prison?

Finally, as to the "A," the whole point is the right to privacy. It's nobody's business at all. You think insurers wouldn't be selling off mailing lists of subscribers to Plan A? You think the IRS doesn't release information? Hah!

For the record, I appreciate your reasoning here. I check your blog because you're smart. BUT - I'm as hard-nosed as the anti-choicers - and I have the law on my side, at least for now, and I have rationality on my side. I'm not budging. They have no right to know a goddam thing about my body or my views on abortion. By protecting my right to privacy, I'm protecting everyone's right to privacy. This is just another civil rights fight.
 
Here’s my response to your second response to my first response:

The law is on my side. The law! Majority does not rule. The law does (or it’s supposed to). And how is change for the better ever brought about except by standing up against the powers that be? Even if they’re bigger and stronger and there’s more of them.

What matters is what IS. Correct. Here’s what is: I’m not budging. Ever. I’m not paying extra because I’m a female. I’m not bowing down to right-wing nutjobs, whether they’re Repubs or Dems. My body is mine.

As for political heft, let’s see how well the Dems do catering to the anti-female-rights vote. Just because the Dems can’t grasp how to negotiate or how to phrase the issue properly doesn’t mean I have to give in to some brainless idiots. I’d rather die. And I mean that. I will not budge.
 
In general, single payer, national, or other types of ‘universal’ health care arrangements:

1) pay for abortion on demand, or:

2) pay for abortion only under certain conditions, framed as medical (dangerous to mother), social (distress / difficulty / e.g. having a 6th child; being 15; being so opposed that suicide looms, etc.), moral and or circumstantial considerations around the conception (rape, incest) and lastly, the most difficult, viability / life expectancy of the child, and the mental or other fitness of the mother (e.g. trisomy 21, mother or child.) Some countries have laws that require parental consent for minors / others - an extra complication.

1) is not a possibility for the US.

2) introduces a measure of arbitrariness and it always favors the rich and connected, which is very unfair in any ‘public supported‘ health scheme.

Way forward:

1) see to it that decisions are as as local as possible, turned over to the states first of all, and let that sorta shake out...(if public option by state, etc.)

2) Abortion is a hot political issue in the US. Medically it is trivial, and very cheap. As Joseph point out. Having it labelled an elective procedure (like a nose job, etc.) should not be rejected or disregarded in favor of better health care for all. Private foundations, other aid mechanisms, etc. can take care of it - if the will is there.

When health care and 'population' policies cross ..tough times.

Btw, the only country in the world that requires future spouses, men and women, to have followed a course on contraception before they can get their marriage license, is: Iran.

Ana
 
Actually at one point they were saying that people could choose from different plans so why not have an option for a plan that does not cover abortion and let the people who do not want that coverage buy it.

A lot of people who are against abortion are really against allowing it to exist so this wont satisfy them-they want plan c-where they get to make your medical decisions for you.

But some people would budge-probably enough to move beyond the issue.
 
"Further, I am not accepting for one second your implied belief that those who need health care will get it with the crap legislation pending now.."

Jesus. Is THAT what you took away? Either you have an inability to read or I have an inability to write. And I think I write pretty well, most days.

"The law is on my side. The law! Majority does not rule."

Majorities make the law in a democracy. If the majority makes a new law stating that people who comment anonymously shall be sacrificed to Baal, guess what happens?

If you're not troubled by the fact that only 47% of the population shares your position (which happens also to be my position) on abortion, you're nuts. In a democracy, you win with NUMBERS -- not with displays of arrogance.

"I’m not paying extra because I’m a female."

When did I ever ask you to? Offer a citation.

You simply cannot read. I'll say it again: If my Plan A/Plan B scheme were put into action, you'd have roughly equal numbers of men and women funding Plan A. And you'd have nearly half of the women (believe it or not) opting for Plan B.

Did you READ any of those poll numbers I quoted?

"I’m not bowing down to right-wing nutjobs, whether they’re Repubs or Dems. My body is mine."

Jesus, where in my post did I propose that you should bow down to right-wing nutjobs? Where did I say that your body was NOT yours? Where?

My god. People like you make me despair. I mean, why should anyone write ANYTHING, when ninnies like you read words that are completely different from those which appear on the screen?

Don't bother commenting again. You cannot comprehend simple English.
 
This post has been removed by the author.
 
You know, that last contretemps with the anonymous contributor really has me infuriated. And flummoxed.

Right now, I'm worried about something quite different from the abortion controversy. I'm worried about language. I am wondering whether language retains the ability to convey ideas.

I'm worried about that issue because I keep running into the same problem, in many areas of life, not just in blog-land.

No matter what the topic of debate at any given moment, I find that people really are not communicating. No actual debate takes place, because the words emitted by Person A are not the words that are heard (or read) by Person B.

Everyone has an interior dialog going on, and that interior dialog drowns out whatever other people might be saying.

I'll give an example. It's a very small and rather silly example, but it illustrates the point.

Not long ago, a woman known to me was going through a "Monty Python" phase, obsessively watching various Python clips on YouTube. Nothing wrong with that. I'm a big Python fan myself.

One day, while talking to a friend, this woman started quoting a famous Python bit.

The friend said: "I'm not really a Monty Python fan. I find them kind of annoying."

Now, I was a witness to this conversation and I can testify that the friend spoke VERY clearly. Nevertheless, the first woman did not hear those words. The words she heard were the words she WANTED to hear: "I love Monty Python too and I want you to spend the rest of the day quoting all of your favorite Monty Python routines."

Eventually I had to take this woman aside and explain that the words she heard were not the words that were uttered.

Now, this sort of thing goes on ALL THE TIME. The phenomenon is getting worse and worse.

How can we have a political debate -- about ANYTHING -- if we no longer possess the ability to communicate, if language can no longer convey ideas?

I still cannot believe it. My anonymous tormenter actually said these words...

"Further, I am not accepting for one second your implied belief that those who need health care will get it with the crap legislation pending now.."

Jesus god.

Jesus freaking god.

How the HELL could anyone get THAT from what I wrote? How can anyone say such a thing after the thousands of words I've written on health care reform?

It's at a 180 degree remove from what I said and what I believe!

I think I'm a pretty good writer. Sure, I usually need to go through a couple of drafts in order to hone my message. If I write too quickly, my work contains typos and inelegant phrases and all sorts of other errors. Still, I was previously under the impression that I possess an ability to convey ideas -- sometimes rather complex and subtle ideas -- simply and clearly.

Was I wrong? Am I really a bad writer?

Or has language itself failed us?
 
Well, I for one thought your idea was completely reasonable.....and therefore not even remotely likely to ever come to pass. However, you were not asking if it was possibly, only if we thought it was a good idea. It is, in my view.

However, as I read through it, I remember thinking that there would be comments that would be based on dogma and not on what you actually wrote. Lo and behold, this was the case. I see the kind of thing you are talking about (in your last comment) all the time as well. I'm not sure why it happens, and I fear I may do it myself from time to time. I think people are loosing the ability to actually listen to other people (in speaking or writing), and lay their preconceived notions on top of anything that the hear or read. This has, of course, always been the case to some degree. It just seems to be more extreme in the past 8 or 9 years (or maybe even longer than that.....but I've only personally noticed an increase in that time frame).
 
Snowflake is right. The problem is the people who are against abortion won't be satisfied with the A and B solutions...they'd want option C in order to force their view on others. I know, Catholicism is the religion people love to bash and for that reason I generally don't single it out, but since the BISHOPS were inserting their noses into the Stupak amendment, this time they deserve to be called out. They are not alone, of course, in their views, but if they want to be a legal lobbying group instead of a church, let them turn in their tax-exempt status.

I really don't understand why you're even proposing this "solution," Joseph. As you said, it really doesn't matter what "should" happen, because what should happen won't. And it's not a matter of "abortion is different" etc etc. It's legal. It's a matter of privacy and civil rights. The current "majority" who are simply reacting to the emotional argument about dead babies might become a minority in the future if we stuck strictly to the point and kept it framed as a privacy issue, instead of the same old divisive paradigm.

Constitutional rights are always getting scuttled by those who can make an emotional appeal to the herd. Take those "DUI checkpoints." Please. Just set up an unconstitutional roadblock and for no discernible reason, scrutinize citizens for "possible" criminal wrong-doing. These roadblocks are tolerated because of the bullshit "they save lives" mantra. The reality? The majority of the busts are not for intoxication. Most are lapsed licenses and unrelated warrants for arrest.

We're really headed in the wrong direction, and it is a slippery slope. While in the abortion war there are those with an infuriatingly sexist agenda wrapping themselves in the mantle of "saving babies" it's a big mistake to frame this as anything other than a privacy and civil rights issue.

I compared it to the "DUI exception" to the Constitution because I'm on a motorists-rights mailing list (haha, I know!) and the erosion of our rights never stops. Why? The framing of the argument. In the name of "safety" we've allowed seat belt laws, red light cameras, road blocks and more. Red light cameras actually *increase* accidents, because the flash causes some to slam on their brakes, after it's too late to do so. My point is, we never hear about that part, so we're ceding rights on some bogus emotional argument of "saving lives." I guarantee you, if you bring up these points the instant reaction you'll get, instead of anyone "hearing" the part about our Constitutional rights, will be people ranting and raving about "drunk drivers." It's a hot button issue like abortion and is framed as "drunks" killing little children. So who cares if there are states that are testing out a mandatory *forced blood draws.* (Texas, where else?)

Anyone want to be stopped by a state trooper on your way back from a wedding, say, and have him jab you for blood? Wait till they decriminalize marijuana. Every single person who is stopped will be deemed to have "glassy eyes" and be subject to goons jabbing for blood. And you can be stopped for not wearing a seat belt. Hell, you can be stopped at random check points.

Well, it's a damned slippery slope, but there is zero chance what "should" happen will. Our media watchdogs are too busy being the ones to fan the bonfire of fears that whip the mob into a frenzy to throw away our own rights, in the name of "safety" or "saving" lives.
 
Zee: Why am I talking about this matter now? Because I play chess, and a good player sees beyond the next move.

Try to look ahead.

When the current health reform bill fails -- either in Congress or in practice -- it will be time to rethink the whole health care question. That will be the time to try to get single payer on the table.

And we now know that a major stumbling block to a GOOD health care bill will be the abortion issue.

A lot of people think that this issue can be won by arrogance. By preemptory declaration. By repeating axioms ("A woman has the right to her own body!") that were tiresome -- true, yes, but tiresome -- in 1975.

Sorry, but those tactics won't work. Not in a country where only 47% of the populace is pro-choice. The weakening numbers place us in a danger zone.

So the time to think about new strategy is right now.

If and when single payer comes up for debate, how will you respond to the abortion problem? Stupak, and the people who believe as he believes, are not going to go away.

My "Plan A, Plan B" strategy is the best I can come up with right now. You may be right when you say that it might not suffice.

So. What's YOUR plan?

Again I say: The time to formulate a plan is NOW. C'mon. Try to think four or five moves ahead.

You write:

"The current "majority" who are simply reacting to the emotional argument about dead babies might become a minority in the future if we stuck strictly to the point and kept it framed as a privacy issue, instead of the same old divisive paradigm."

Don't be inane. The people who believe that an aborted fetus is a murdered baby are not going to be swayed by any arguments based on privacy!

And such people are becoming more numerous, not less.

Now let's talk about the Bishops.

What did they do, really? How did they impact the debate?

I read the news stories carefully. Turns out they wielded NO power. As I keep saying: The only weapons they possess in modern times are verbal. They offer nothing beyond mere words. You know what they did? They instructed their priests to deliver homilies. That's it.

Well, guess what? In the first place, the priests do not function robotically. They will not slam the health care bill simply because a Bishop has so instructed.

In the second place, the congregation simply is not listening!

The Bishops may tell the laity: "Write to your Congressional representatives..." -- but so what? If the flock won't act, then those directives are empty.

I'll say it again: Half of all Catholics believe that abortion should be legal. That percentage mirrors the (roughly) half-n-half split within the entire country.

And yet the feminists and liberals have used scabrous, toxic terminology to insult the faith of a group of people who are actually much more SYMPATHETIC to the pro-choice view than are other groups!

Does that make sense? Is that your idea of good tactics?

Again: Start thinking like a chess player. Start thinking in strategic terms.

Remember when Markos Moulitsas and his minions thought that the best way to win over Clinton voters was to insult them daily?

Poor tactics.

What we saw then was the triumph of the Id, of rage over reason. Those rotten tactics almost cost Obama the election.

Now, many people think that the best way to win over Catholics is to insult them.

More rage, more unreason, more Id.

More rotten tactics.

There's a really cool chess program built into Windows 7. One of the best engines I've ever played against. Fire it up. Play every day.

It'll improve your thinking.
 
I think its a damn fine idea on its merits.

Why are you getting emotional misreads, etc? Come on. Thats 100% predictable. You're a voice crying in the wilderness to those readers: proposing not only that there *is* a workable mitigations for this 'impossible dilemma', -- but here's one right here! Folks not yet ready to hear that.

The only solution is to keep on proposing, and not to lose heart.

How's that quote go, "first they ignore you, then they mock you, then they fight you, then you win". Long effing road, is what.
Keep it up man.
 
Circumcision does not "prevent" penile cancer (except perhaps* the small subset of foreskin cancer).
*a significant proportion of penile cancers in circumcised men occur on the circumcision scar, so perhaps that cancels out.

Penile cancer is one of the rarest of cancers, rarer than breast cancer in men, rarer in non-circumcising Denmark than the US. A cost/benefit analysis (even factoring in HIV in the US) comes down against non-therapeutic circumcision.

Our moral objection is not to the deformation of (consenting) men, but the deformation of babies and the men they become.
 
"Further, I am not accepting for one second your implied belief that those who need health care will get it with the crap legislation pending now." How the HELL could anyone get THAT from what I wrote?

Here’s how: “Well, anon, I think you are standing on principle at the expense of those who need health coverage.”

Reading comprehension indeed.
 
I think it is less expensive to have an abortion than what it would cost to have the baby... My 2 cents.
 
I've only done the most pathetic of skimming through of the comments to this post, so I hope I'm not repeating someone else's thoughts or opinions.
It seems to me your logic is basically right, in the "realistic" sense (and as a 3-time Nader voter, the political implications and common of that adjective often aggravate the hell out of me.)
That said, as someone who has (3 times) taken that "principled" approach (and, PERHAPS, had the future ring hollow to my principles), I think the determining factor of your preposition is essentially thus:
Q: Is it more beneficial, in the long run, to our goals, to make a VERY modest concession to the mechanics if a LARGER victory,
ASSUMING the supposedly modest concession can be objectively considered to be TEMPORARY? By this I mean is it reasonable to assume, given the arc of history, that such a concession NOW might prove, through the over-all weight of it's related victory, to be temporary, and in the end the generational forces will overcome this (tactical) compromise?

Your quoted poll results do not necessarily show this.

At the same time, it is my belief that the generation now assuming power, and those that will follow, have a more subtantially 'socially liberal' political inclination than their predecessors had. Some issues - like gay marriage (and hopefully the drug-war complex) - will crumble under the generational tide that we're just now beginning to experience. That said, I'm not so sure that some traditionally 'socially liberal' positions are subject to such a tidal generational pressure - such as views on abortion. Abortion seems a bit too intimately tied to religious beliefs to be ascribed to generational paradigm shifts. With the mutli-faceted shifts in religious beliefs taking place in this country recently, it's incredibly hard to predict what impact mainstream 'christian' values or dogma will play in the debates of a decade from now.

With all of that babbled, and as a 3-time Nader voter, I would say that in the scenario you described, without any other details provided.... Yes, I would support it. Attaining a functional, cost-effective and universal single-payer system would be worth a minor abortion-rights loss. The success of the single-payer system, it's debunking of the socialism/gummint=evil+wasteful meme, and - not insignificantly - the "Plan A / B" system - would make it a Win. In such a case, one could be happy winning the WAR first... and then, later, the comparatively minor battles.

Hope I didn't miss the point of your post and fail the reading comprehension test.
 
I'm torn.

I agree that it would be a good compromise, but agree with Zee that it won't work. And that's because you ignored something pertinent that the above Anon mentioned.

It's not about murder, and it's not about the babies. The Babeez is an emotional argument, but it's all about control.

That's why the Democrat male percentages moved so much, is because of misogyny on display over the past year, it ties in directly with the woman hatred. They got into the idea of controlling the bitchez again. And that 47% is TEMPORARY and always will be. The forced birthers have been particularly effective over the past decade, but they too will face a backlash, and those numbers will climb again.

Plus, those numbers are always artificially low, some women who've had abortions, and would plan on having abortions, have no problem judging other women for their abortions. So plenty of women who espouse forced birther views, would use you're hypothetical abortion coverage, and would probably prepare in advance by carrying it.

Because it's all about control, and you play into the forced birthers hands, when you approach this issue as if it's really about morality on their side. If it were about morality, why the exception for rape/incest, if the life of innocent baby is so important. The child is guiltless in it's conception, why should it suffer the consequences?

And while I agree that the flak the Catholics are facing is imbalanced, the fact of the matter is, Catholics are in more positions of power in this country in ratio to the population, so Catholic influence is disproportionate to its percentage of the population(look at Bill Donahue). So it's not really like their a disinfranchised minority that constantly needs protection from it's mean old oppressors. Also, the Catholic leadership is consistently out of step with it's membership, look at how abortion support is split, but you won't find that nuance amongst the upper ranks. Nor amongst many Catholic politicians, not at least if they use their church networking to garner political support.
 
Plus, it is kind of a slippery slope.

One plan for smokers, one plan for non? One plan for straights, one plan gays? One plan for drinkers, one for abstainers?

Where does it end, when you start to legislate on individual morality?
 
Anonymous...I'm going to let this one last comment of yours slip through just to prove what a fool you are.

You write:

""Further, I am not accepting for one second your implied belief that those who need health care will get it with the crap legislation pending now." How the HELL could anyone get THAT from what I wrote?

"Here’s how: “Well, anon, I think you are standing on principle at the expense of those who need health coverage.”

"Reading comprehension indeed."

End quote.

Now go re-read the opening basis of the entire damn discussion.

"Let us posit an alternate universe in which single payer, or something happily close to it, is under discussion right now in Congress..."

Anonymous, could you POSSIBLY be a BIGGER idiot?

Learn how to read, jackass. Stop paying attention to the words inside your head. Pay attention to what is actually going on in the outside world!
 
Actually, I kind of like your Plan A, B scheme. Creative problem solving -- particularly, allowing women to switch, but requiring them to pay a small amount more for the rest of their lives (but then, why would any woman sign up for Plan A, as no one thinks they will need it.)

But tell me, if the anti-abortion advocates were being honest, why would they support Viagara et al being paid for by the insurance plan -- but not contraception?

djmm
 
lol, Joseph! No doubt a chess program would improve my thinking. I'm more the type to plop a knight down with such bravada that the opponent flees instead of realizes his queen could take 'm.

I could not play against my ex or my son since they are way too cool-headed to fall for grand gestures.

You make me think, no doubt. It took me a long time to frame my argument. You make some excellent points and also miss some of mine (well, Snowflake's, since I thought she had the best point of all, that there are far too many who would want option C...forcing others to buckle to their beliefs).

I wanted to clarify one of my points that you dismissed. Clearly, you're right about those who believe that abortion is murder and their mission in life to prevent: they won't be swayed by anything.

But the "majority" you mention I feel are more soft than that on the issue. I feel many have been swayed by "live birth" abortion and "late term" arguments, which are bogus in many ways. IF we had a leader who spoke of these things, who defended a woman's right to decide with her doctor what are her best and most imperative options, IF we had a leader who spoke of women whose wanted pregnancies ended in tragedy and who should not be forced to carry dead fetuses to their own detriment, IF we had a leader who spoke of privacy and legality and a woman's right to the integrity of her own body and her own life, then we would definitely have a majority understanding that this is a *rights* issue.

No, we'll never get the zealots. But we don't have to meet them on their terms. At most, we could find common ground with them in upping the support and care for unexpected babies. Let's make that part of any "plan!"

So I did offer a "plan" --- that is, a recommendation: education and leadership. Using the bully pulpit to support more than "women's" rights...using it to frame "women's" rights as human rights and upholding the highest American principles.

I think doing this would defuse a lot of the heat and division as well. My idea is to defuse the venom, and stand on broader principles in order to do so.

I had another entire pontification on how I know that pure "principles" don't really move most people, but enough is enough, and that is one thing we super agree on: what "should" work, won't, and what should happen, won't. I'm not sure that means we shouldn't at least try.

It's a shame, because if Obama really believed in principles, in human rights, and articulated that, instead of cowering and promising he'll uphold the "status quo" (meaning the Henry Hyde womb-police amendment) people would at least listen.

But he's kowtowing to the "dead baby" factions so that's the reality that led to the further erosion of the slippery slope.

When I said I don't know why you're bothering with a painstaking parallel program, it's because of the same arguments you've made: those who believe they have a calling to stop protoplasm "murder" won't care. It will never meet their standards because it's not enough that they don't pay..that's a false issue. Their issue is that no one should have the option, so they will never be satisfied.

If they will never be satisfied, why not leave them to their frothing? Or try to distract them with how to care for the infants after they're born?

Whereas, everyone else would be placated if they came to a new understanding. So the framing, the leadership from the bully pulpit, would make a true difference. One day. When the right leader comes along. And I do believe in the groundswell of ideas...so our conversation here helps to shape that future leader, too.

I hope this better clarifies what I meant. And thanks. :) See, you're proof positive that as much as I love to bash male trolls, it's not simply because they're male! Both male and female are alike to me, when they're earnest in the conversation.
 
it would be churlish to point out that circumcision prevents cancer of the penis


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penile_cancer



Circumcision
There has been some debate over whether circumcision is a form of prevention.



The American Medical Association and the Royal Australasian College of Physicians say the use of infant circumcision in hope of preventing penile cancer in adulthood is not justified.


["AMA (CSAPH) Report 10 of the Council on Scientific Affairs (I-99) Full Text". http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/13585.html. Retrieved 2007-12-13.]


The American Cancer Society has said that the suggestion that circumcision reduces penile cancer rates, were based on studies that were flawed because they failed to consider other factors that are now known to affect penile cancer risk. It concluded: "The current consensus of most experts is that circumcision should not be recommended as a prevention strategy for penile cancer."


[http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/content/CRI_2_4_2X_Can_penile_cancer_be_prevented_35.asp]


A study that concluded circumcision did not prevent penile cancer was done by Wallerstein, which reported that the risk of penile cancer in Japan, Norway, and Sweden (countries with a low rate of circumcision) is about the same (1 in 100,000 per year) as in the US.


[Wallerstein E (February 1985). "Circumcision. The uniquely American medical enigma". Urol. Clin. North Am. 12 (1): 123–32. PMID 3883617. ]



Sergei Rostov
 
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Credit where due...

I have to applaud Barack Obama for calling for the release of Aung San Suu Kyi, the saintly freedom fighter of Burma/Myanmar. Is this the first time any U.S. president has mentioned her by name?
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Bill Clinton in presenting the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2000.

1) AUNG SAN SUU KYI AWARDED THE PRESIDENTIAL MEDAL OF FREEDOM by President Clinton

Aung San Suu Kyi, the National League for Democracy party leader who won the 1991 Nobel for her pro-democracy work and is being detained by the country's military government, received the Presidential Medal of Freedom America's highest civilian award from President Clinton. The award will be accepted by Suu Kyi's son because she has been held virtually incommunicado and allowed visits only by close relatives since Sept. 21, after a dispute with the government in Myanmar, also known as Burma.

President Clinton's remarked: Aung San Suu Kyi . . . sits confined . . . in her home in Rangoon, unable to speak to her people or the world. . . . Twelve years ago, she found herself at the helm of a popular movement for democracy and human rights. A decade ago, she led her persecuted party in parliamentary elections that were neither free, nor fair; yet they still won 80 percent of the seats. Her victory has never been recognised by the government of Burma, but her hold on the hearts of the people in Burma has never been broken. . . . She has seen her supporters beaten, tortured and killed, yet she has never responded to hatred and violence in kind. All she has ever asked for is peaceful dialogue.. . No one has done more than she to teach us that the desire for liberty is universal. [In accepting her Nobel Peace Prize, her son] said she would . . . accept such an honor only in the name of all the people of Burma. I imagine she would say the same thing today . . . that for all she has suffered . . . nothing compares to what the Burmese people . . . have endured: years of tyranny and poverty in a land of such inherent promise. . . .

This medal stands for our determination to help them see a better day. The [Burmese people's] only weapons . . . are words, reason and the example of this . . . brave woman. Let us add our voices to their peaceful arsenal.

 
George W. Bush

...today I renew my call for the release of all prisoners of conscience around the world -- including Ayman Nour of Egypt, Aung San Suu Kyi of Burma, Oscar Biscet of Cuba, Riad Seif of Syria.
 
Don't know if this counts, by Poppa Bush and Jimmy Carter are on this one: 59 Former Heads of State Call For Release Of World’s Only Imprisoned Nobel Peace Prize Laureate.
 
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Friday, November 13, 2009

Health shorties

1. What if? Let us posit an alternate universe in which single payer, or something happily close to it, is under discussion right now in Congress. How would we handle the question of abortion?

I would want the procedure to be both legal and covered by nationalized health insurance. Yet I can muster up some sympathy for those who say that they do not want their tax dollars to support what they consider to be murder. Can you, as a mental exercise, cobble together an arrangement?

(Granted, our tax dollars are being used to support murder in Afghanistan and Iraq right now.)

2. Can Kucinich make it good? Dennis Kucinich wants his state-by-state single-payer approach to become part of a final deal with the Senate. Won't happen. Ah, but what if? Would a bad bill suddenly become worthy of support?

I say yes, it would. Of course, California probably would go single-payer early. If you live in Montana, you may have a differing attitude.

3. Want a filibuster? I do! I hope that the level of support in the Senate for health care reform is above 50 but below 60. To me, a number in that range would be ideal. Why? Because I don't much care for this bill -- but I do want to see a real, old-school filibuster. You know, one with Joe Lieberman entertaining us with a day-long telling of the Aristocrats. That kind of filibuster.

Why? Because a real filibuster would allow the Democrats to amend the rules of the Senate itself, in which case we would have, literally, the filibuster to end all filibusters. I've talked about this before. To change the rules, a two-thirds vote of all the Senators present is necessary -- and the whole point of being a filibusterer is to keep the opposite party (in this case, the Dems) in the room while most members of your own party (the Republicans) get to go home for booze and a snooze.

Picture it: Two-thirds of the senators vote, the rules are changed, and the very idea of a filibuster is gone, baby gone. We would once again have rule by a simple majority. That's the only way to get things done.

(Of course, that sitch would have drawbacks. In 2011, we may have a tea-soaked Republican Senate. The Dems would have no filibuster power against nutjobs who want to declare war on the Illuminati, confer citizenship on angels, and put Jesus on Mount Rushmore.)

4. A T-shirt? You guys serious?
People have suggested that the "MS-Led" cartoon (scroll down) would make a nice t-shirt. I tried the t-shirt thing before; it did not go over well. In order to have a company manufacture and ship shirts from your own design, one must charge somewhere on the order of 20 bucks. I've never paid more than $10. Of course, I'm a cheap bastard.
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Comments:
Okay, I've checked into the t-shirt thing. 24 bucks at CafePress for a dark shirt (printed on demand), and 22 bucks at the competitor's joint. And that's without a dime for me.

Not worth it. But thanks to all of those who expressed interest.
 
I'm pretty sure you could get the shirts made a lot cheaper, but you would have to do a mass printing and front the cost, then hawk them yourself.

Either that or sell the rights for a few ducats and watch someone else make all the profits.

If you did make them yourself and they became popular, you'd have to deal with pirates too.

Free-market capitalism is a wonderful thing, huh?
 
I gave some thought and there might be copyright problems with the Ms. logo.
Your cartoon would come under fair use but if you start to sell it, who knows.
Perhaps an individual using iron-on printer paper could run some off?
 
I have an idea for those citizens who don't want their money going to pay for a private legal medical procedure that is none of their business if a sister citizen is getting or not. They can move. There are plenty of Catholic countries all over the world. Bon voyage!

Another idea. If Americans decide that it's American to crotch-sniff and groin-police, then I don't want one public dime going to prop up aging penises. Why erectile aids aren't considered "elective" is beyond me anyway.
 
If you buy the shirts and color xerox the image onto them is it $20?
 
Suggestion: a few more cartoons, then do a set of left-bucking Obama t-shirts under your label. It's a niche that is under served. But key is to offer a collection, not just one design.
 
This post has been removed by the author.
 
The economics still don't work. It's like the old joke: "We lose 50 cents on every tire we sell. So how do we stay in business? Volume, volume, volume!"
 
OK, one more idea regarding the shirts.

"Iron your own damned shirt" productions. IYODS

Make iron-on copies of the graphics and just mail that to people. That should keep it under $10 and people can then iron the graphic onto their own shirt of choice.
 
I was thinking, removed the color content of his suit, don't add any color to him and go with the T-Shirt (One of your best political to the point cartoons!). We all know he is Bi-Racial...and the main 'FeMANist' Coat Hanger...'Sorry Sweeties' will be clear as day. Besides, there is no question he is the president and he did what BUSH I and BUSH II couldn't, with the DEMOCRATS clapping! Pelosi looked like a Fisherman's Wharf Seal, she was clapping so hard...while the 'wimmin folk' got thrown under the BUS!

I say Hillary 2012!
 
Guys, thanks, but no shirts. I've tried it before.
 
What about coffee mugs?
 
Getting back to your original health questions:

1) Health choice is about health choice: Carry the pregnancy to term or don't carry the pregnancy to term. Both procedures should be paid for. The vast majority of people are unlikely to get a hernia, but that doesn't mean that hernia treatments shouldn't be covered because it only applies to a certain segment of the population.

By the way, in Roman Catholic Italy, abortion on demand is legal during the first three months of pregnancy and is paid for by the government health plan. If they can do it, why can't we?

2) State single payer is a bad idea unless everyone in the state is in the same public plan. Otherwise, it's impossible to spread the costs enough to keep the public policy or subsidized policies inexpensive enough.

Also, what about poor states or states without enough people to generate a large enough risk pool? There's just no way to guarantee adequate care.

3) I am opposed to any government plan that forces people to buy private insurance, so whatever it takes to kill this bill, I'm for it.

grayslady
 
By all means, do an online download for an iron on transfer that we can print out ourselves and just iron on our own shirts or have it steam pressed on the shirt. You could charge $5 for a download, make some money, not put any out, and we can have the shirt. Paypal would set up the payment and downloads or you could use the yahoo stores. How about that?
 
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Words and deeds: Obama and Iran

Many disappointed Obama supporters maintain that the president has betrayed the progressive agenda he once espoused. I would counter that he never was a liberal -- he merely played one on TV.

One classic example: Obama's multi-facial attitude toward Iran.

His campaign duplicity has gained new relevance after the recent federal seizure of various mosques and a skyscraper in New York, due to alleged covert ties to Iran.

In this earlier post, we looked into Obama's shifting stances on Iran. I shall recap.

During his ever-so-brief senate career, Barack Obama co-sponsored something called the "Counter-Proliferation Act of 2007," which did not become law.This act was controversial because it identified the Iranian Revolutionary Guard as a terrorist organization.

As you may recall, most prog-blog commentators considered any such identification reckless. The Revolutionary Guard is a national army, and we are supposed to be at war with terrorism. Thus, the act technically could be used to justify war with the Iranian army.

To placate leftish critics, Obama pulled off a neat trick. He did not reverse his co-sponsorship. He did not express regret or admit error. He did not really do anything. Instead, he gave campaign speeches opposing the Kyl-Lieberman resolution, which offered the same IRG = terror equation.

Those speeches sufficed to make the prog-bloggers happy. The bots did not notice that all Obama ever offered were words. Just words.

When it came time for action, Barack Obama made a point of not showing up for a vote on the Kyl-Lieberman resolution. In other words, he refused to take a stance that might come to haunt him in the general election.

It gets worse: Then-Senator Hillary Clinton passed around a statement intended to make clear that the Bush administration should not construe the Kyl-Lieberman amendment as an excuse for war. (At the time, everyone feared that Mad Dick and Little George wanted to justify heaving bombs at Tehran.) Hillary asked Barack Obama to sign that letter.

He wouldn't.

Nevertheless, many progressives formed the bizarre hallucination that it was Hillary who wanted war with Iran, while Obama (in their eyes) stood for peace and diplomacy.

When ambassador Joe Wilson (the husband of Valerie Plame/Wilson, who had been screwed over by the Bushies) scored candidate Obama for his Janus-like stance on Iran, the Obot brigades responded by smearing Wilson and his courageous wife. Daily Kos published a particularly mind-boggling reaction -- a comment which reflects the sentiment then prevailing within "progressive" circles:
Obama will NOT let the criminality of government remain the status quo.....Clinton would of covered up for Bush and the CIA etc like her husband did, Obama will NOT and Larry and his buddies and Joe and Valeries budddies may just be caught for whatever criminal acts they were part of.....
(The "Larry" here is, of course, Larry Johnson, the former CIA analyst with whom I've fallen into severe disagreement. That contretemps is irrelevant to our story.) The above-quoted words were published in mid-2008. I still have no idea what "criminal acts" are to be laid at the feet of the honorable and brave Wilsons.

When Obama attained power, he got his revenge against Joe Wilson. Obama directed his Justice Department to halt the Wilsons' civil lawsuit against Dick Cheney, Karl Rove and Scooter Libby, who conspired to reveal Valerie Wilson's CIA employment. In essence, Obama provided legal cover for the chancred and leprous asses of Dubya's most vile henchmen.

And how did the progressives react? For example, did Randi Rhodes -- who spent years feasting on the Wilson/Plame scandal -- denounce Obama for siding with Dubya's evildoers against the people she had once championed?

No, she did not. At least not within my hearing. (If you know otherwise, please enlighten me.)

And that, my friends, is Barack Obama. He is a man who ran against the Bush/Cheney legacy, yet ended up protecting Bush and Cheney. He is a man who, on the issue of Iran, told lefties what they wanted to hear, yet consistently refused to match action to rhetoric.

Now Obama has taken what may be a provocative step against Iran -- and his actions seem to have won some very grudging respect from the likes of Michelle Malkin. Obama will maintain sanctions against Iran. The neoconservative Wall Street Journal is demanding that Obama end all attempts at diplomacy with Iran -- and the current federal seizures give the administration political cover for doing exactly as the WSJ prescribes.

Meanwhile, we have this disturbing note from DEBKAfile (that is to say, from Mossad):
Prime minister Binyamin Netanyahu and President Barack Obama focused on the single subject of Iran when they met in Washington Monday, Nov. 9 - as did Netanyahu and French president Nicolas Sarkozy in Paris, Wednesday, Nov. 11. Iran also occupied the meeting between defense minster Ehud Barak and US defense secretary Robert Gates Monday. DEBKAfile’s Washington sources disclose that briefings to the media and joint communiqués were disallowed for the sake of blacking out the content of the conversations Israeli leaders held in Washington and Paris.

Leaked reports that the Palestinian issue and Mahmoud Abbas’ future were discussed in Washington and peace talks with Syria in Paris were window-dressing, as were the power games widely reported as leading up to the Netanyahu’s reception at the White House.

The conversation in Sarkozy’s private apartment at the Elysee was a continuation of Netanyahu’s talks with Obama two days earlier and marked their coalescence around the next steps on Iran.

Back home, the defense minister stressed the importance of “not discounting the peace signals coming of late from Syria” and said that “many barriers fell” at the Netanyahu-Obama meeting “recreating a good foundation for renewing the peace process and reaching accord with our Palestinian neighbors.”

This statement was part of the smoke screen set up by mutual consent to conceal the content of Barak and the prime minister’s overseas meetings. It was necessary to addressing the minister’s need to bolster his shaky position as leader of the left-leaning Labor party and lift Israel’s image in Europe which is fixated on the Palestinian issue.

At the same time, a very senior American official told DEBKAfile that his description of falling barriers between President Obama and prime minister was spot on and deserved a full stop.
After reading that, the timing of the New York seizures makes rather more sense, doesn't it?

Obama says that the recent federal action resulted from an investigation he inherited from Bush. Perhaps. We shall see.

What we know is this: As a candidate, Obama spoke like a prudent peacenik on Iran, yet his actions have always lurched toward neo-conservatism. His foreign policy mentor, Zbigniew Brzezinski, may be considered a neo-con of a certain type. Zbig is not Ledeen -- he's something different -- but that doesn't make him one of the good guys.

Obama's sponsorship of that once-notorious legislation (the one which placed the "terrorist" label on the Iranian Revolutionary Guard) makes the following piece of speculation worth pondering:
So is the Obama Administration involved in the attacks on the Iranian Revolutionary Guard conference in Sistan-Baluchistan?
Note: Sistan-Baluchistan is a war-torn province of Iran, the home of a Sunni insurgency against the Shi'ite regime in Tehran. (It's also a key area in the heroin trade.) Intriguingly, an Al Qaeda-linked group named Jundallah has been credited with the attack on the Iranian Guard. If the Obama administration was (as the writer implies, and as the Iranians have plainly stated) the secret sponsor behind an attack carried out by an Al Qaeda ally -- well. This movie just became really intriguing.
One of the main forces behind the foreign policy of President Obama is Brzezinski, a realist and someone who has talked about Iran, Afghanistan, and Pakistan all becoming destabilized, including in front of the U.S. Senate Committee on Foreign Relations in 2007. The concept of a geo-political “black hole” is also his. Also, the Iranian government has categorically stated that the U.S. and Britain where the forces behind the October 18, 2009 attacks on a dialogue amongst Sistan-Baluchistan’s Shiite Muslim and Sunni Muslim leaders sponsored by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard. Most likely the answer is yes. While the U.S. government is also negotiating with Tehran, America has not ended its covert meddling and destabilization operations against Iran. Barack Obama is continuing the last American administration’s proxy war on Iran from the Iranian border with Iraq to Sistan-Baluchistan.
Could proxy war lead to war war? Indeed it could.

Where, I wonder, is Hillary in all of this?
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Comments:
Obama is dumping Greg Craig as White House counsel over Gitmo.

Remember how Obama was gonna close the extra-legal prison in Cuba in a year? - Not!

I hate being right.
 
Joseph....thanks for this....but dang, sometimes it's depressing when you nail it.

btw, loved your cartoon of Zero with the coat hanger. I kid you not, just before I saw it I had a vision of that ms magazine cover with a new caption: "Bring me a coat hanger, Sweetie...I want you to iron this shirt!"
(because he was stripping off the shirt in the original pic.
 
It's almost like letting our government be run by lobbyists, think tanks and foreign nations was a bad idea.

Are we talking about unemployment and appointing some committee to cut Social Security before or after the start of WWIII?
 
Where's Hillary in all this?

Bound & gagged and locked in a closet, most likely.

Guess it beats being under the bus with the rest of us--warmer & drier, anyway.
 
excellent analysis, Joseph. I don't know why so many thought Sen. (or President) Obama was/is a liberal. I saw no such indication. (But I was a regular reader of this excellent blog!)

djmm
 
Let's be honest here. Any big time Democrat of national stature must kow-tow to Israel's perceived priorities, Hillary no less than Obama. Any straying from support of those, even mild rhetorical straying, is toxic to that politician's future in the business, and his/her chances to accomplish much of anything in the present. Obama HAS strayed from the orthodox catechism here, and whatever walk backs or disappointments occur afterwards, objectively, he deserves high marks for courage and integrity to even daring to dissent from the conventional wisdom.

McCain's idiotic repetition of the Beach Boys' song Barbara Ann (bomb, bomb, bomb... bomb, bomb, Iran) embodied the true Israeli-sponsored alternative to the halting and so far disappointing attempts at re-engaging that regime that Obama has attempted.

Which is to say, even this not entirely satisfactory performance is close to the best that we can get given the dominance of the alternative position. It already is better than the position Hillary had laid out, that she in no way would have engaged Iran's thug regime.

As for Obama's leftie or peace credentials, while I agree there are mixed signals and contradictions, still he has already taken several actions that are worthy of considerable respect.

Removing the threat against Russia of deploying first-strike-enabling SDI interceptors in Poland and the Czech Republic is one. His return to insistence on characterizing the West Bank as an occupied territory, and demanding the cessation of settlements, is another. His acceptance of Iran's pursuit of nuclear power generation of energy was huge, a sea change, and by itself, the action most likely to prevent war against Iran.

Now, Obama sounds like he's making another risky choice for peace by rejecting all four scenarios of escalation in Afghanistan, while demanding an exit strategy alternative.

Concerning the Plame civil suit, Obama's Justic Dept. did not need to end it, since it had already been ended by dismissal on jurisdictional grounds in federal court. What you've referenced is the APPEAL of that dismissal, in which the circuit court upheld the dismissal. All government arguments in support of the jurisdictional objection to the suit going forward had already been made on the record of the first trial by the Bush administration Justice Dept. All these arguments were available to the appellate court in the transcript, apart from any new advocacy. I think it is overstating to imagine some new argument by the Obama Justice Dept. was dispositive in the case.

By contrast, note that the Obama Justice Dept. did not enforce the national secrets gag order against Sibel Edmonds, whose now-published allegations include massive corruption in the GOP (even as they similarly charge the same thing against some fewer, now mainly retired and/or dead Democrats).

XI
 
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