I have not commented on this trial so far, although I have followed it. The guilty verdict against Knox, delivered hours ago, was an atrocity.Rudy Guede has already been convicted in the death of Meredith Kercher. Nothing links him to either Knox or Raffaele Sollecito. If he were part of a conspiracy, why would he not lessen his sentence by testifying against the others? To this day, he insists that Knox was not present. (Frankly, the evidence against Guede might not have held up in an American court.)
The case against Knox is laughable. No genuine physical evidence links her to the crime. None. Neither is there any eyewitness testimony against her.
I'll say it again: An American woman has been convicted of murder despite a complete lack of forensic evidence or eyewitness testimony. There is no evidence that more than one person committed the crime. Another person, unconnected to her, has already been convicted.
The entire case rests on the twisted imaginations of the investigators, who formed their bizarre theories early on, and who refused to rethink their presumptions even after Guede came to their attention.
Here is an example of what the Italians call "evidence":
Knox’s DNA was also found to be mixed with Miss Kercher’s in a bloodstained wash basin at the house, suggesting Knox had washed Miss Kercher’s blood off her hands in the sink.No. This suggests only that Knox and Kercher were roommates, which they were.
At bottom, this case was driven by prejudices concerning both lifestyle and nationality. Italian magistrates actually pointed to "violent" Japanese comic books in Sollecito's possession. Knox was villified for treating investigators flippantly, and for her typically collegiate indulgences in sex, drink and horesplay. The prosecution zeroed in on vulgar internet postings which had no bearing on the case. Pretty much any young American visiting abroad could be convicted on that sort of non-evidence.
The prosecutor actually put these words into Knox's mouth as she allegedly assailed Kercher:
“You are always behaving like a little saint. Now we will show you. Now we will make you have sex.”It is ludicrous to presume that any American would talk this way. This piece of dialogue was purely imaginary -- an example of bad screenwriting which should never have been allowed in any courtroom.
Judge Claudia Matteini suggested that Knox and Sollecito had been seeking to "experience extreme sensations, intense sexual relations which break up the monotony of everyday life..."The judge is obviously a sexual fantasist. Prosecutor Giuliano Mignini (under indictment for misconduct in another case) is another sick fantasist with a history of seeing inane Satanic conspiracies everywhere. This deranged freak actually believes that Amanda Knox was involved in some form of devil worship, even though no evidence indicates that she ever took any interest in any form of occultism, and no evidence links occultism to this crime.
Italian public opinion coalesced against Knox based not on evidence but on bigoted European views of young American women. This personal memoir illustrates the role played by stereotyping and prejudice.
It’s bad enough that the dollar is at a record low and that President Bush is about as popular here as Chinese food. Not to mention, I’m always trying to explain that “The O.C.” isn’t real life and that’s not how most people in the United States live.This outrageous verdict was, in short, the product of bias and chauvinism. The jurors flaunted their anti-American bigotry by deliberately wearing the colors of the Italian flag while announcing Knox's fate. Those jurors cared more about flags than about facts.
Now throw in the blue-eyed studentessa, a poster girl for college debauchery. To read the articles about Amanda Knox, you would think that all American students are hash-smoking party girls with little memory of their weekends.
I am serious in what I am about to say: If Italy does not release Amanda Knox now, the United States congress must take the strongest possible action against that country. Boycott? Hell, I'm thinking war.
34 comments:
Fuck Italy
Well, there was the knife. The one found at Sollecito's flat which had Kerchner's DNA on the blade and Knox's DNA on the handle. Of course I dont know what DNA means in this context or how much or how conclusive.
There were also the cell phone records, which suggested her original alibi was incorrect.
The incrimination of the African bar owner she worked for who was subsequently found to have a cast iron alibi.
I have been following the trial too, and the reporting in the British press made it seem obvious she was going to be convicted. So much so that the reports from her family about being optimistic seemed absurd. My memory is not good enough to remember precisely why I got the impression that she was almost definitely going to be convicted. I think it was the CCTV footage of the couple's movements around the town.
I should take a more careful look at this case.
One thing that I think one should point out. Meredith Kirchner was a very young british girl who appears to have been raped and then had her throat cut. She was not Italian. The Italians could easily have pinned the case on some african itinerants. Sollecito is a nice Italian boy from a very middle class family.
The Italian authorities would almost definitely been under pressure to find Knox innocent. Do you really think criminal trials in Italy to be particularly
corrupt or unprofessional?
I will keep an open mind and look into your comments.
Harry
The "evidence" is so flimsy that it would never have been allowed into an American trial. The prosecutor is nuts and is already facing charges in another questionable prosecution and had he lost this one he would more than likely be disbarred.
This is tragic on so many levels. Justice is truly absent in this case.
At the most, reasonable doubt exists here.
As reported on CBS, the drug dealer did place Knox at the scene during the crime. Also, the panel included six jurors and two judges, so discrediting one still leaves you with the problem of the other one.
I think it is unfair to portray all college students as being like Knox. Her behavior is far from typical and representative of American college students abroad. I agree she should not be convicted of murder based on her other behavior, but neither is she just a typical college kid.
College students traveling in Europe are frequently warned that being in a foreign country does not mean "anything goes" and that minor crimes in the US may be treated as major crimes abroad (such as pot smoking, outside Amsterdam). Europe has a love-hate relationship with tourists and I think they rightfully dislike Americans and those from other countries who come to Europe and treat it like Vegas (what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas). What do you expect the attitude to be toward her in a largely Catholic country?
Stupidity is harshly punished in life and whether she was guilty of murder or not, she was very stupid. The verdict is automatically reviewed as part of their judicial process, so she has an automatic appeal. It may be that some jurors used the process to send a message, assuming the verdict (or sentence or both) will be changed on appeal.
She didn't help her case with confusing initial explanations about her whereabouts, but the problem remains that there is no motive, no testimony by the alleged (and convicted) accomplice, clearly poor handling of evidence by authorities, no eyewitness(es), and no confessions. I think not sequestering the jury in what was a spectacle from the start is particularly shoddy work on the part of the Italians. So maybe she's guilty and maybe she's not, but she deserves to go free in the interest of preserving the integrity of the justice system. Convicting her shows that nobody - regardless of their innocence or guilt - is free from conviction; justice can't prevail in that environment. In other words, releasing a murderer is the price the Italian public should, in theory, have to pay for running a judicial system that is a complete shit show.
Anything she said during those interrogations cannot be used against her. She was not given a lawyer. She was badgered and beaten. She was instructed to IMAGINE scenarios.
Italian justice is medieval.
48 Hours did a great episode on this case, which indeed is an atrocity. The program is having an update tonight. It was trial by tabloid. Anybody who believes the corrupt prosecutor's nonsense needs to have his or her head examined.
Italy is a great place to visit, but I am glad I don't live there.
Two good things are that this is not a disgrace of the US criminal justice system, and they did not use 1 or 120 waterboardings of any of the defendants to obtain confessions. That would be medieval.
Not to be flippant, as this may indeed be a miscarriage of justice. Although under US doctrines of felony murder, accomplices who do not do the act of murder are subject to capital sentences as if they did.
XI
Why do you care about this so much? If the Italian system is so warped, people are being unfairly convicted every day yet this is your first complaint about it. Is she a friend of yours?
That is a dumbass comment from a braindead "Anonymous: ----you do know you can at least concoct any anonymous nym most simply? At least show a modicum of creativity.
Why should Jpseph not care? America should always care about the degree of justice its citizens face around the world!!! If Iran and Korea had the weight of American diplomacy freeing unjustly held citizens, why not Italy, too?
When I saw an interview with her father several weeks ago, I realized she was being framed. He explained quite thoroughly how she was maligned and set-up for this conviction. I think they need a new lawyer. The lawyer kept telling her and her family that they had no evidence and she would be released. I think it is awful. I wonder if she will ever get out. Makes me wonder if I ever want to visit Italy...scary country.
Thanks for covering the story.
Abc has a good article and a video on this.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/AmandaKnox/family-visits-disappointed-upset-amanda-knox-jail-conviction/story?id=9257953
I haven't followed this case but I've read a lot of the Innocence Project cases and other reversals/exonerations of convictions for murder, rape and other serious felonies.
It is really scary how little evidence it takes to put someone in prison or even on death row. That's why I oppose the death penalty. Someone doing life can be freed if new evidence is found or new tests are invented, but you can't bring an executed prisoner back to life.
Check out the story of Lenell Jeter:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,926416,00.html
How many innocent people are in prison or were executed because there was no DNA evidence to free them?
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Gosh, Joe, my reaction to the Warren Report isn't "Fuck America!" As a Yank with an Italian mother and a pending applicaton for dual citizenship (which would allow me to work in the E.U.), I hope the injustice you decry isn't so systemic that it tarnishes the entire country that gave the world Leonardo and Michaelangelo (and Federico and Marcelo).
Trojan Joe
Actually, I disagree with you on this one. I don’t know if she was actually guilty of murder – and the prosecution’s “sex game” argument is fantastical/prejudicial . And I think one could legitimately argue reasonable doubt. But I read about this case in detail quite a while ago, and I watched some of the trial footage (specifically, cross-examination of Knox), and I tend to think Knox was implicated in some fashion. I’ve also noticed that the accounts in the American press universally give an extremely partial and distorted account of the evidence, even when they’re supposedly trying to lay out the prosecution’s case (and, yes, that’s also true – in the flip direction – of some of the Italian press). In American reporters (especially males), the case seems to be triggering the young blond girl chivalry response.
A prime example of American yellow journalism is the statement from CNN that “Six of the jurors were wearing red, white and green sashes — the colors of Italy’s flag”. Though the statement is factually accurate, the inclusion of this statement without further context is a prime example of American yellow journalism, since it’s intended to trigger the impression that the “jurors flaunted their anti-American bigotry by deliberately wearing the colors of the Italian flag”. There’s just one serious problem. Apparently, during the reading of verdicts (in all trials), lay jurors on Italian juries are required to wear this sash (while the two professional jurors must wear robes).
I’m swamped with work right now, so I can’t argue this further.
Conversely – I do strongly agree with your item (above) about the honorable prisoner. I really have to respect Staton.
228 pieces of evidence and more than 400 traces of genetic material collected during six crime scene inspections
Evidence includes Knox buying cleaning materials at a nearby market at 7:30 am when she was supposedly sleeping at her boyfriend's home -- verified by receipt.
You have to ignore or explain away way too much evidence to consider her innocent. That takes strong motivation on the part of the person who wishes to find her innocent. I can understand that when it comes to her family and friends, but why you?
I think some of the posters need to read the NYT article explaining Italian "justice" and realize this trial was nothing but a kangaroo court, not unlike what goes on in teacher termination hearings. It was all character assassination--she was convicted for basically being "Foxy Noxy," the jurors were NOT sequestered, and pretty much anything went in terms of throwing garbage at her hoping something would stick, much of which would never be admissible in American trials. No, there is NO evidence whatsoever "implicating" her in this crime. Watching a little bit here and there of the trial doesn't cut it. She would never, ever have been charged with anything in this country.
The NYT article is this:
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/05/an-american-in-the-italian-wheels-of-justice/?hp
It appears she will likely win her appeal and then the whole thing starts anew.
Regarding “To this day, he insists that Knox was not present”
Guede: "I heard the voices of Amanda and Meredith. They were discussing the missing money. I heard Meredith say: 'We need to talk'. Then I heard a loud scream. It was above the volume of the music. I was worried, it was so loud. I went into the corridor and looking out of the window saw going away the outline of Amanda Knox. I didn't know what had happened, a few minutes earlier everything had been calm and then this had happened.”
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2735956/Meredith-killer-saw-Knox-flee.html
Incidentally, in no way do I perceive this as valid evidence (for obvious reasons). Just thought I should correct a factual inaccuracy.
Uh, you don't know what the facts are, let alone how the Italian judicial system works. It's not at all like the U.S. There is no evidence linking Guede to Knox or her boyfriend. Using Murdoch's "The Sun" doesn't help your "argument." The tabloids have trashed Knox from Day One. Basically the prosecution can throw all kinds of trash at a defendant hoping something sticks. That isn't evidence as we know it in the U.S.; much if not most of it would be inadmissible in court. Knox would NEVER have been arrested for this murder in this country.
"This outrageous verdict was, in short, the product of bias and chauvinism. The jurors flaunted their anti-American bigotry by deliberately wearing the colors of the Italian flag while announcing Knox's fate."
Just curious. Has Cannon ever attributed the fate of many hundreds of thousands of Iraqi innocents' to American Arabophobic bias, & chauvinism (mingled with Israelophilia)?
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2009/11/07/2009-11-07_poor_babyfaced_butcher_central_park_killer_suing_couple_over_car_crash_injuries.html
I know nothing about this case and if the NYT says Italy's justice system is bad it must be because we all know what a source of absolute truth that newspaper is-however.. evil little me-every time I see her creepy blank face I think back to-well the above face and shudder.
Knox could have gotten life so at least the sentencing isn't all bad. Who knows maybe she'll be eligible for an international exchange of some sort.
With all the problems in the world like the Iraq and stuff, why do people have be so mean to a pretty girl like Amanda. She loves America and should not go to jail!
Dear all, I would like to remind you that Italy is a part of the European Union, which consists of 25 states, including Germany, France, UK and Spain. If you attack us you will find yourself against the entire European continent and then, you can be sure, your ass will hurts much, much more than in Vietnam. Sincerely. An Italian friend.
There is nothing like a bunch of fake liberals trying to justify a blatant injustice by bringing up how shitty our system is.
Italy's system IS corrupt, and in this case I think Knox's wrongful conviction has less to do with anti-American sentiment rather than the fact the police and prosecution are trying to cover up their monumental screw-up by fingering the wrong people to begin with AFTER the real killer was found.
How do you make a blanket statement like "Italy's system is corrupt"? Do you really mean the entire judicial system is so corrupt it is unworthy of serious discourse and fit to be slammed?
Really, because an Italian court recently found that several CIA operatives in their country--Americans all--were violating international law, and as I recall, many liberals cheered this great and courageous ruling from the Italian courts. Then there were the "Mani Pulite" Mafia hearings in the 90s against Italian politicians where judges were routinely threatened with death for daring to expose such corruption and criminality. Most people thought this was a good thing, and nobody called the Italian system corrupt, chauvinistic, unfair, biased, etc...Now, all of a sudden, it's a kangaroo-court system.
None of us were at the trial. The only accounts of the evidence we're getting are from American sources clearly biased in Knox's favor. I'm not saying she's innocent or guilty--I don't know. And yes, I'm very aware that innocent people get framed and jailed and wrongly convicted all the time, every day, right here in the good old non-corrupt U.S.A.
But please, do go ahead and take the New York ("I was fucking right," WMD, Judith Miller) version as Gospel Truth in this.
Also, Kirchner's dad says Americans who slam the Italian system are wrong, that there was plenty of evidence.
That's Kirchner, remember her? The actual victim:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/12/08/anti-american-bias-accusations-branded-ludicrous-by-meredith-kercher-s-father-115875-21881142/
You americans are simply disgusting.Your pathetic pride is burning up your ass because an american citizen has been jailed in a forein country.You think you own the world and you can do whaterer you want in other countries but the truth is far from that. Your ignorance is well known here and in the rest of the World too.We know very well your law system: black=guilty=>electric chair , whithe=innocent=>released. We have nothing to learn from you.You still fry people on chairs an our law is medieval? Please tell me you're kiding. you are fanatically defending that girl because of her "pretty face"...there's no more superficial people than you on the world surface you make me puke.You sell weapons in supermarkets, you go around harmed to the teeth only to defend yourselves from other american psycos armed with no reason to the teeth,every day there's some mr. nobody who goes nut and kills his family or people in schools or supermarkets with no sense and we are a scary country? If we are that you are third world then. Your law system is prehistorical, to you law and tribunals are just a trick to appear on tv and become famous.You wanna bring us war? And will you use italian americanized soldiers like in the WWII or you'll leave them home this time? You can neither defend your homecountry from a bunch of shepherds who hijack your airplanes with stone knives and strike in your heartlands, you cannot even own third word countries like Iraq or Afghanistan were you're taking more deaths than in the 9/11. You think we fear you because of all of those movies you made about your supposed Invincibility?Come here and let's try out yankees. Your last victory was in the WWII, after that your fat flaccid arse has always been kicked since Viet-Nam till now. I piss and shit on your arrogance, your pride, your congress, your flag and your pathetic tribal constitution.Fuck america!fuck hamburgerland! LONG LIVE ITALY! Your amanda will root in our jail!
FUCK ITALY AND ITS STINKING SHIT SMELLING PEOPLE. TAKE A FUCKING BATH! YOUR ALL SONS OF WHORES.
I've been there and yes you people are stinking fucking grease pigs.
FUCK ITALY!
I've been in americ-ass and you motherfkn yankees are all flaccid ugly and obese plus you're ignorand & stupid like goats and with no history and identity. the only thing you're good to is to eat like the pigs you are!!! if it wasn't for us your fkn country would still be a third world continent cast in the ocean: remember: each time you say that pathetic "God bless america" you say thename of an Italian ahaha even your continent brings the name of one of us!
Innocent. Won on Appeals today. Suck it Italy ;)
Aw, how cute. Could it be that you stupid rednecks just DON'T WANT TO think that one of your "sweet inncocent girls" could be a killer?
Fuck Italy? No! Fuck you!
Italian justice is medieval? And that comes from someone living in a country which still has the death penalty? Geez ...
"She loves America and should not go to jail!"
Wow! I think I'll murder some people tonight and if they catch me and ask why, I'll just say: "I love America!" and they'll let me go.
Idiots!
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