Longtime readers have met my fearsome Havanese hell-hound, Bella. Ever since I found her as a stray puppy in 2001, she has been sick on only one previous occasion, after she had picked a rotted chicken carcass out of a garbage can. (That was in 2005.)Now she is ill again -- shaking, panting, not eating, moving as little as possible. Most of the time, she simply lies down near my feet, as she is doing at this moment.
I changed her diet not long ago. For years, she has thrived on Natural Balance, Nutro and other good-quality foods, along with carefully-chosen table scraps. (I know which "human foods" to avoid.) A few weeks ago, I decided to try AvoDerm because certain websites had recommended it as a formula to improve her skin and coat.
She detested the stuff from the beginning. She has never before shown such a strong dislike for any other kibble. Until she became ill, I thought that age had simply made her picky. People assured me that her attitude would improve as she got used to the new diet. But that never occurred.
Others suggested that she would acclimate to the new food if it were mixed with the old, so I ran through the last of the Natural Balance. After that, she lived mostly on table scraps. She would eat the AvoDerm only as a last resort.
I'm still not sure that the kibble caused her present condition. On the other hand, I don't think that she could have caught something contagious. During the past month, she has encountered no other dogs and has visited no new places beyond her usual daily haunts.Does anyone know of any recent health warnings involving AvoDerm?
Even though money is drum-tight right now, I acquired a month's supply of Nutro -- a brand that she normally loves. Alas, she won't eat even her tastiest treats when she feels sick.
Update: The vet says that she has pancreatitis. (She, meaning Bella, not the vet.) So right now Bella is on heavy pain meds, which she is enjoying very much. "So this what colors are like! Groooooovy... Hey, can you go down to Mexico and score some more of this stuff...?"
Seriously, the big issue with pancreatitis is not to let the animal eat anything for a day or two. The animal usually senses the proper course of action and refrains. That's when dumb owners like yours truly get panicky and start placing all sorts of tasty goodies right beneath the dog's nose.
At any rate, Bella should be all right within a week or so. I want to thank everyone who offered advice and good thoughts. Thanks for the attempt to hit PayPal; I'll find out what is ailing the system.
Part of the reason I wrote this post was the open up the argument to the topic of pet food in general. The argument in favor of the BARF diet is strong -- as is the anecdotal evidence. But I have to wonder if wolves in the wild really are as healthy as all that. Wouldn't they be likely to contract salmonella if they had access to uncooked store-bought chickens?
30 comments:
I will ONLY feed my pet Natural Balance canned food. I would feed your dog Natural Balance canned food AND take him/her to the Vet right away -- our pets cannot speak for themselves and rely on us to take care of and watch out for them. PLEASE take your dog to the Vet right away!! If money is a problem, speak to your vet about it (maybe the Vet could give you a discount plan of some sort), BUT, no matter what, get your poor dog to the VET today!
Avodrem contains avocados. The ASPCA says there is some question regarding the safety of feeding dogs avocados. Avoderm says it doesn't apply to them.
Links:
http://www.missouriscenicrivers.com/baddogfoods.html
http://www.dogforums.com/5-dog-food-forum/46368-human-foods-products-poisonous.html
http://www.pets.ca/forum/archive/index.php/t-32558.html
http://www.breeders-choice.com/dog_products/avoderm-natural-and-avocado-safety.htm
According to the first link, avocados can cause pancreatitis in dogs. In humans symptoms include: fever, chills, nausea, lethargy, fatigue, so that is a possibility. More here:
http://www.emedicinehealth.com/pancreatitis/page3_em.htm
In the school of Natural Healing which I obtained my Dr. of NH from, we also treat pets, and we don't feed dogs any non-animal products as part of their regular diet.
Sergei Rostov
I'm sorry Bella isn't well. Get her to a vet. It's the only way to address her problem.
Joseph, you've probably heard about the B.A.R.F. diet, which is essentially raw food for dogs. My dog has been eating this way for years and is the healthiest dog I know (along with the other dogs on it). My brother has done much research into this and has converted many to this way...particularly when their aging dogs were very ill. By the way, eating raw bones (chicken necks particularly) and ground meat mixed in with a bit of oil, alfalfa powder, kelp powder and bone powder or liver (consider this a "steak tartare") will provide everything your dog needs. This may seem daunting and expensive to do, but it isn't, truly; it's amazing how cheaply this can be had, if bought directly from butchers or at farmer's markets. I get the meat, already individually packaged, for a really cheap price, and freeze a three-month's worth supply. If you don't want to do this everyday, just alternate days, and feed your pup a combination of raw egg/milk, tinned sardines, yogurt or other human food. Your pup may take a day or two to get used to the raw meat, but once he/she starts eating, it will transform his/her health. I've seen this happen on several occasions.
By the way, the commercial pet food industry (combined with many veterinarians, who are financially supported by this industry) is a loud and push entity that does its utmost to discredit the value of this diet...naturally.
Here's an excerpt from Wikipedia's BARF entry: "The intense heat used to process commercial pet food destroys and reduces nutrients like vitamins, minerals, and enzymes.[6] Studies with rats showed that the digestibility of amino acids in cat food is changed significantly by heat processing.[7] Pet food manufacturers must supplement the food after heat processing to replace those nutrients. Some raw feeders believe that supplements have reduced nutritional value compared to the same nutrients in raw food and that possible nutrients not yet recognized as essential by nutritional science cannot be replaced. The same rationale is used by some to reject supplemented home cooked pet food.
Commercial pet foods, dry foods in particular, often contain a large amount of grains, which proponents of grain-free food feel are inappropriate for dogs and cats. Because cats are obligate carnivores, it is believed that a switch to a predominantly meat based raw diet would be especially beneficial (as compared to a raw diet for dogs) due to cats' relative inability to digest grains. Studies comparing the source of protein in dry cat food concluded that the digestibility of meat-based protein is superior to corn-based protein.[8]
Veterinary surgeon and raw feeding proponent Tom Lonsdale states that food from dry or canned commercial kibble sticks to teeth and enables bacteria to proliferate, causing "sore gums, bad breath and bacterial poisons that affect the rest of the body". Lonsdale further states that dogs lack the necessary enzymes to digest grains and plant material and claims that grains cooked at high temperature can cause starch, proteins and fats to become "denatured or toxic in variable degrees." The poorly digested grain is said to support toxin-producing bacteria in the lower bowel which may eventually lead to "poisons pass[ing] through the bowel wall into blood circulation" creating "further problems" in other organs."
Good luck with your sweet dog.
Sorry to hear your beloved Bella is not doing so well. I have no answers about food, but I agree a vet is the best next course of action. If you are very resistant to that, try putting her on a diet of plain rice for a day and see if that helps her feel better. I did that for my Italian Greyhound when she went through a sick spell and it seemed to help her.
Here is some more information you may find helpful:
http://www.dogtrainingsite.net/sickdog/feeding_sick_dog.htm
Hugs to Bella and you too.
{{{Bella}}} Looks just like our beloved Digby....
Joseph, I would take her to a vet. If she's feeling that sick, I wouldn't take the time to experiment.
Joseph, there is a great deal of controversy about the BARF diet for dogs (and cats) that Nicole advocates and much of the "evidence" for its safety and efficicacy is anecdotal. Do not jump into this without doing a lot of research.
She could just be temporarily "under the weather." My normally voracious cats will occasionally decide they don't like ANY food and will barely eat for a day or two -- i worry like crazy but vets have told me that as long as they're eating *something* they should be fine; usually it's just a temporary tummy upset or a little feline cold. If the non-eating goes on for three days, they've told me, it's time to worry. Don't know how different cats are from dogs in this regard.
In the long run it does sound like she needs a vet visit. I know, it's damn expensive (my vet lets me and others pay over time for big bills, maybe yours will too?) but it's worth it for your peace of mind.
Have not read any warnings or problems with Avoderm for dogs or cats.
http://ezinearticles.com/?Symptoms-of-Pain-and-Illness-in-Dogs&id=9786
If it is not eating enough because it does not like or can not digest the new food maybe it ate something in your house like a plant. Is there anything poisonous?
Avocados are toxic for pets, apparently. Warnings issued:
http://www.thevillagenews.com/story.php?story_ID=22205
Years ago when my cat was diagnosed with feline leukemia a holistic vet told me to start making his food using the recipes in Dr Pitcairn's book. I did that for a year and a half and followed the other instructions in the book and gave him a homeopathic remedy from the vet and he recovered from the feline leukemia and lived another 10 years. The book has recipes for dogs and cats. A holistic vet who knows both homeopathy and acupuncture can guide you to other remedies, but call around until you find someone who's reasonably priced and really knows alternative health. Good luck on your beautiful pup.
emmag
I had the same problem with my "babies" Joe. I was advised by my Vet to switch to Nutra or Science Diet.
I am so sorry to hear your Bella is sick. I agree with Katie as I am sure you are well aware...Get a Vet's opinion. There may be something else going and Bella is trying to tell you in her own way.
Hope all works out.
Cook up some rice in chicken broth. It frequently performs miracles on under-the-weather pups.
Make enough for you as well, because it's incredibly tasty and you'll want to eat it anyway.
Re: Dancing Oppossum's comments...what on earth could possibly be controversial about giving dogs (and cats) real food, raw food, the kind of food they've eaten for millennium, in the wild. Dogs, unlike humans, have have very high acidic levels in their digestive system, which means they were built to handle raw meat. Also, feeding dogs (and cats) kibble or processed food of any kind means their vital organs are not getting the amino acids they need. Think of it this way: feeding your pet commercial, processed food on a daily basis is like feeding your child Kraft macaroni and cheese everyday: not a good idea, and explains why so many pets today develop cancers and diabetes, etc. Just to reiterate, the people loudly proclaiming against the BARF diet are the Pet Food industry lobby and many vets who's training is often provided by these same companies (oh, and most veterinarians have very little training in animal food nutrition...this has all been documented).
Sorry for the long screed.
Yes - I'm not sure about the BARF diet. My companion, Tisha, is 17 years old and rarely sick, but as she aged the amount of protein in regular (even the best quality) dog food has become stressing to her kidneys. So, she is now on a low protein dog food diet (it's prescription) that she's taken too remarkably well and she's stopped drinking tons of water and her kidneys are much better.
Not saying this is what's happening with Bella, but, depending on how old she is, she may not be able to process certain high calorie and/or high protein foods as well as she used to.
Anyway - all the comments that you should take her to a vet immediately are spot on. I've just made a small paypal contribution to you. Hope you can use it for Bella as she's as important to the spirit of this site as any of us!
Sorry, Joseph: I just posted as anonymous and tried to send you something for Bella via the paypal button, but there's something wrong with the certificate apparently, and I don't know your email address so can't send directly that way either. Can you check on the paypal button on your site, or let me know where to find your email address?
Thanks.
Interesting article Joe...
Our dog eats people food and seems to love it. We eat a balanced diet and so this is what we feed her. She also likes to sample most everything. She enjoys a little coffee, most fruits, beer and just about everything else. She has a way of asking to sample, which when noticed we will offer her some. What she doesn't like is mashed potatoes but will eat french fries occassionally.
Of course she likes jello, cake and anything sweet but we severely limit what she can have. We have dog treats for when she comes in from going to the bathroom. It's about the only food for dogs we give her.
Marty Didier
Northbrook, IL
"there is a great deal of controversy about the BARF diet for dogs "
I don't understand what could be controversial about feeding your dog the equivalent of what a wolf would naturally eat in nature. Basically, it's raw meat + grinded bones (minerals) with some fruits and vegetables (what they would found in the stomach of their prey). You really believe your dog is doing better on an artificial diet of processed grain + meat by product ?
Joseph, regular lurker here. I hope your Bella gets better soon. I echo the suggestion that you get her to a vet. IT may be the food, or another health issue totally unrelated. IT could also be a food allergy that was triggered when you changed food.
Best of luck.
I'm currently living with my fifth dog, four of them rescue dogs. I've learned that when they are ill, they get very quiet and stop eating. I know you don't want to admit this and vets are expensive nowadays, but get Bella to a vet immediately. With my last dog I was too busy to get him to the doc's for 3 days.....3 days in which he needlessly suffered. I hope Bella is okay, but she is looking to you for help by sitting on your feet. Pay attention.
falling lady
Get her to a vet!
I had never seen my dog behaving in the way you describe and had no idea what it meant. I waited a day and then took him to the vet, where I realized that was his way of dealing with extreme pain.
It could be anything. In my dog's case, it was a herniated disc, not uncommon in Havanese-sized dogs who are allowed on the furniture, unfortunately.
Best of luck to you both.
Joe, give her whatever she will eat, make sure she has lots of fresh water to alleviate possible dehydation, and get her to a vet. Now is not the time to experiment with new foods. In fact, sometimes just the smell of unfamiliar or undesirable food can causee nausea, just like in people.
My thoughts are with you and your sweet puppy.
Kim in PA
Good news about Bella....well good news that you know what is going on.
I too have had a food issue that forced me back to their original version. While keeping a sample and the bag it came in because of those Chinese pet food probelms. Even though we buy high grade food for our animals and missed the last round. It was one of the first things that ran through my thoughts.
Sad that food is so suspect these days....even pet food.
Guess that one site was spot-on about the pancreatitis warning. So much for Avoderm's safety claims.
As for your question about wolves in the wild, remember they kill and eat the chicken right away, before it has a chance to rot and develop salmonella. The chicken's immune system wards it off up until then, and in fact even for a short time after death (this has been observed in humans: in one case I know of a woman who was in a car accident had her skull cracked open, and despite the fact that she was already dead, it was observed that her macrophages were still moving around in her brain, trying to eat up the particles of roadway, metal, and even glass which were lodged in it).
Sergei Rostov
Great news about Bella!
My border collie is vegetarian and does fine on a "complete food" kibble mixed with high-protein soya chunks and assorted scraps. Everyone comments on how great her coat looks. The coat is one of the first indicators of a dog's ill health. That's where 25% of the protein goes.
Can't comment on pancreatitis, but BARF sounds like a load of old publishing shit. There are certainly some vegetables that contain useful minerals which a dog finds hard to digest if they're not cooked. Such issues can be greater the larger the size of the dog, because weight varies with three-dimensional measure (the volume of the dog) and the length of the digestive tract varies (more or less) with one-dimensional linear measure (say, height).
Would recommend trying some evening primrose oil for the coat, assuming it's not just a recent problem...
b
b, you have a collie? You unfold like a flower. Is her name Emma Goldman? Proudhon?
At any rate, we now have one vote for a veggie diet and one for BARF. I did try a vegetarian kibble with Bella once, and she ate it, though not with any noticeable enthusiasm.
I like the idea of her being fed when the humans eat, and having a little taste of what I have. It's a bonding rite that seems to stretch back across millenia, when ancient hunters and their hounds would gather round the bonfire and share the night's prey.
For what it's worth, my vet speaks highly of AvoDerm. I'll still avoid the food in the future. It may not have made Bella sick, but the stuff clearly did not please her.
Joseph,
I hope your beloved canine companion fares well...pancreatic cancer sounds dire...best to you both..!
Her name is Paphnutia after the mathematician Pafnuty Chebyshev. Since naming her, I've heard of a couple of other people who are well into the name for some reason. One even wrote a book about it. Goes back to Egypt. I think most Paphnutias may be nuns, probably mainly of Orthodox denomination. We call her Paffs...
b
Good to know you know what's ailing Bella. Dogs always know much more about what's bothering them than we do. Is the prognosis good?
If you're still looking for a food switch and want something as healthy as possible, might consider California Natural. We have two rescued beagles, one with allergies who had (HAD) hot spots to the point his fur was falling out. That was when we adopted him as a pup.
Because a dog's diet can affect their allergies, our vet suggested Nutro. That helped some and we used it until the Chinese additive taint scare. It seems Nutro was getting some of its product from China (I have the documentation someplace).
Although Nutro ended that contract when the scare hit, and it doesn't seem there was any significant danger with their food, the company didn't adequately answer some questions when those contracts were revealed. So we wanted to switch.
Our vet and a locally-owned animal supplies store (from gerbils to horses, they got ya covered), suggested California Natural for an organic alternative. The company has a few lines of organic food, and all of the ingredients are grown and produced in the U.S., so no worries about melamine.
Our beagles love it, and the allergic one has far fewer problems than he did even on Nutro (but he still licks his paws like they're lollipops in the spring time).
(Zee, pancreatis is just an infected/inflamed pancreas, not pancreatic cancer. I believe it's usually caused by something the dog ate or a virus.)
Oh!! Thanks for the clarification, J Woods...I was confused about that. Great news for Bella!
My doxie eats only all-natural no by-products or fillers boutique food. 8-in-1 till the store stop carrying it, then Harmony Farms till he got tired of it, and now Merrick. His coat is sleek and soft...but every summer he gets allergies. :( Doesn't affect his coat, but his belly gets rashed.
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