Thursday, March 13, 2008
Filth (Important update!)
I've never before heard Obama's former pastor, Jeremiah Wright, speak. As you know, I have never hesitated to use the terms sub-human and brutish to describe white fundamentalists. Why should I refrain from applying those words when a black man appeals to the same low instincts? True racial equality means that I should be allowed to denounce both a Wright and a Dobson as inarticulate Neanderthals.
As you listen to this man spew his garbage, mull over a point I make in the piece below. How many black men have been elected to Congress? How many women? How many black men have been elected mayor? How many women?
"Hillary has never been called a nigger." Nobody on the national stage has ever called Barack Obama a "nigger." Wright was swinish and manipulative to imply otherwise. However, many people on the national stage have openly called Hillary a bitch and lesbian. In our society, sexual insult is tolerated; racial insult is not.
Progressives have twisted the English language into knots as they tried to impose "racist" readings on innocuous comments by Bill Clinton and others. Yet they will excuse unabashed hate speech from someone like Wright as he attempts to spread the filthy and disingenuous lie that Obama has been called a "nigger." Wright proves what I've been saying all along: Team Obama, not Team Clinton, has injected race into this contest, and they have done so deliberately and deceitfully. To argue otherwise -- especially after viewing the video evidence on display here -- is akin to arguing that Poland invaded Germany.
Yeah, I was pissed off at Ferraro, and for good reason. But compared to Wright, Ferraro's an angel.
Well, that's it. I've had it. I am officially supporting Hillary Clinton. More than that: If Barack "Machiavelli" Obama is the nominee, and if he does not denounce both Wright and the Kossack hatemongers, then I will -- for the first time in my life -- support the Republican.
I know what you will say before you say it. And I don't give a shit. Mark my words: Barack Obama is the worst thing to hit the Democratic party in a generation. If you can't see it now, you will one day.
UPDATE: Here is ABC News on the Wright scandal. As you watch, don't ask yourself whether you can justify Wright's words. Ask yourself whether Obama can win with this albatross around his neck.
As I recall, Malcolm X got shut down by Elijah Muhammad for using that "Chickens come home to roost" line. Do you think the average American is now going to accept a piece of rhetoric that even the leader of the Nation of Islam refused to tolerate?
Do you think Americans are going to accept a candidate who spent twenty years listening to a preacher who uses phrases like "God Damn America" and "Ameri-KKK"?
The Obama spokesperson in this news piece claims that Obama has never endorsed Wright's words. Bullshit. If attending the man's sermons for twenty years does not constitute an endorsement, what does?
Be honest. Ruthlessly honest. If Hillary Clinton spent twenty years attending a church headed by a racist "Identity" preacher, would the nation forgive her?
How far would she get with that "You can't blame the minister on the congregant" argument?
C'mon, admit it. Just fucking admit it. She would be raked over the coals, and you know it.
No more double standards!
(By the way: Do you think that Catholic voters are going to pull the lever for Obama after the spokesman in this video has directly insulted them? In 1960, JFK did not apologize for, or distance himself from, his church.)
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60 comments:
So Obama is now responsible for what the pastor at his local church is saying ?
Should we analyse all the speach Hillary's pastor is giving ?
You're all over the place. It's pretty sad to watch.
Jamie in Boston
What you're doing is similar to someone supporting contestant A of American Idol because he can't tolerate what the supporters of contestant B are saying against contestant A in online forums.
But I know you like to make it "Cannon VS the-rest-of-the-world", so go on, it's part of your charm.
"So Obama is now responsible for what the pastor at his local church is saying ?"
Yep.
You can't deny that Wright hates white people. The evidence is on video.
When Obama's pastor and supporter -- a public figure -- gives public expression to lies and hatred, then yes, Obama damn well better say SOMETHING.
If Hillary's pastor offered a vicious,racist diatribe of a similar vehemence -- and if she did not denounce those words -- then DAMNED RIGHT she should be held responsible.
"What you're doing is similar to someone supporting contestant A of American Idol because he can't tolerate what the supporters of contestant B are saying against contestant A in online forums."
quoted for truth
its starting to sound more and more bitter every day...
What blog did I just visit? What did you do with Joseph Cannon? This sounds like Ann Coulter!
I haven't been coming here that long, but long enough to see something weird has been going on lately. And it's not very pretty.
I have agreed with much of what you've said about women and Hillary, and even some of the points about Obama. I've also agree with some of the comments, even some of the ones that didn't agree with you. But now you won't let someone post a comment who does not agree with you? What's up with that?
That whole business has been keeping me away from here, because I had thought this was a blog that was more democratic and rational than it has become.
But your decision to vote Republican before you'll vote for Obama has got to be the stupidest thing you've ever said.
Isn't that the same stupidity you've been accusing the progressives of?
A long time ago when I was still married my husband wanted to go to a different church one Sunday. So we went. This crazy preacher started in ranting about how the Jews deserved the Holocaust because they killed Jesus. I was shocked. I grabbed my kids and stomped out, leaving my husband to walk home. I told him my children were never going to be exposed to that kind of crap. I felt an obligation to protect my kids from this kind of evil.
Obama did not get up and leave during his preacher's hate filled rants. He listened and he kept going back and listening to him for 20 years. He would still be going to that same church and listenig to that hateful old man if he hadn't retired.
Obama's choice in minister is relevant. The fact that he listened to this hate-filled screed and allowed his children to be exposed to that kind of hatred speaks volumes about what kind of man Obama is.
You may not agree with everything your minister says, but you do have the option of attending a more tolerant church.
Open a vein before you vote for McCain.
"But now you won't let someone post a comment who does not agree with you?"
I've said it many times. This is not a public place. This is my home. It is much more my home than is the place where I physically live.
My guests will behave as guests or they will be asked to leave.
doc e has offered a number of posts with which I did not agree. But I cannot allow her to lie, and lie she did.
Gary: I will never vote FOR McCain. However, I've said many times that withholding support for the Democrat -- or voting for a third party candidate -- is tantamount to voting Republican. So IF Obama refuses to denounce Wright, and IF he gets the nomination, and IF I am therefore forced to stay home on election day -- that equates to an endorsement of McCain.
While Wright's pulpit manner is not to my taste, it strikes me that he is speaking the truth. To acknowledge that the experience of African-Americans is significantly different from that of Europeans is not racist, it's merely factual. To imply that Obama understands the needs and wants of African-Americans better than Hillary is not racist, it's obvious.
The fact that the Fox News logo is whirling in the corner should inform us that we are probably watching something that is intentionally presented to aid the Republican Party. Apparently in your case they have succeeded.
Ummmm, what's wrong with the content of the video? Seems like someone has a case of the white man's burden.
Black folks in America have the right to be mad. Seems you want to take that away from them.
Why don't you go and give that preacher some lessons in etiquette?
You really come off as a bit of a racist yourself with your high and mightiness. I am so sick of whites telling blacks how they can be exceptably mad.The lot of you come off as a bunch of clueless boobs, and also the ironic objects of the mans speach.
ttp://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/031308A.shtml
listen to this before you fall into the "filth".
First off, comparing a two bit preacher to a former, very popular president is a very weak comparison. What's next,"The black winos down on scid row said bla, bla, bla, and Obama was near by, he better denouce them soon or else".
I'm inclined to agree 100% with Bartoon, you come of as a racist looking for a cause with your own little rant about what the black man must do in order to gain your support.
Get real Joesph, the facts are Obama probably gets called the N word several times a day but most likely out of his ear shot and under the racist breathe. Dems da facts Joe.
Do you think the repubs that know bush has commited multiple illegal activities, started an unjust war, caused almost 4000 soldiers to die, tortured prisoners, give to the rich take from the poor, and on and on, do you think those repubs are saying: He better apologize of else?
Grow up, get a clue what it's like for a black man, yes even in 2008 America.
after watching the video I think you may not have watched it all the way through.
He was stating facts about the rascist nation that jesus labored under (even though it was the jewish priesthood that cried "curcify him crucify him" and Pontius Pilate washed his hands of the whole affair and said "I find no fault in this man"}
The preacher was stating the truth about todays rascism..and the white priveleged class that has run things from the very beginning..right? But he then lifted himself and others by reminding his audience that according to their founder "You must love your enemies"..something you have failed to accomplish.
Please do some more spiritual "pushups" or face the consequences.
You are simply looking for an excuse to flip your lid Cannon..it is quite obvious and l;ike someone said earlier a bit embarrassing to watch a rather intelligent gent set himself on fire and blame others for his foolhardy act.
Impressive.
You have just achieved Hannity Insanity:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/03/13/hannity-colmes-when-will-the-msm-be-brave-enough-to-cover-obamas-ties-to-controversial-church/
"Get real Joesph, the facts are Obama probably gets called the N word several times a day but most likely out of his ear shot and under the racist breathe. Dems da facts Joe."
Fuck you, you lying paranoid asshole.
You seem to be under the impression that white people use the so-called N-word all the time. That is pure paranoid horseshit.
The only times I have heard the word "nigger" in many years (in real life, not in the movies or on TV) was when it was used by young black people on the bus. Even people whom I knew to be bigoted and ignorant have learned not to use that term. Not even at home.
If you think that this is the way all whites REALLY think once your back is turned -- well, to hell with you. Talking to you is as hopeless as talking to a CD-er or to someone convinced of the Great Freemasonic Conspiracy.
And by the way, you haven't answered my point: If Hillary has advantages that Barack Obama does not, then why have so many cities (including my own) had black mayors -- and how many female mayors have there been?
Get a clue.
I never thought I would say this (having just written a script with a villain modeled on Hannity), but Hannity is right. Obama cannot win in the general. Wright will sink him, once the public finds out.
And spare me your lectures about the black experience. Wright does not hate injustice as much as he hates white people. Maybe he has a right, based on his experience, to hate whites. But I am white -- therefore, Obama's pastor hates me. Why should I vote for a man who attends services delivered by a cleric who hates me? Would a black person support a candidate who attends a church run by a guy who hates blacks?
Another point. I gotta mention this.
Content aside, what stunned me about this clip was the sheer, thudding stupidity of Wright's rhetoric. By comparison, Malcolm X was always eloquent -- a superb orator -- even when he spoke on behalf of the NOI. I've visited black churches in Los Angeles a couple of times, and on both occasions I heard moving and powerful words.
But Wright...? As a rhetorician, he stands somewhere between Kelly Bundy and Peter Boyle in "Young Frankenstein."
Look, let's leave race and politics out of it for just a second. I want an answer to THIS question: How do you get to be a preacher at a major church, ANY church, if you don't know how to talk?
bartonn, you think anyone who does not like your candidate or who rejects lies and hate speech from the pulpit must be a racist. In fact, YOU are the racist. Get away from my site and stay away.
Joseph: ..."inarticulate Neanderthals."
->I think I told You this before :
The Neanderthals where a very progressed species. They possibly only were anihilated by "modern man" because they were comparibly not agressive enough.
I've now had the chance to view the clip, twice actually. I don't see the problem. This country has been, and largely still is controlled by rich white men. I think Barack Obama does have a perspective as a black man that Hillary cannot have. Note also that he closes out with criticism directed at his own people, when he says that Hillary has never been accused of not being white enough by her own people.
This election is too important for anyone not to vote for the Democratic nominee. Hillary was my last choice, behind Obama and Edwards but I will vote for her, in the unlikely event she wins the nomination.
The problem, Gary, is that Obama would not be in the front-runner position if he had not commandeered Hillary's share of the black vote. Now, of course he had every right to go after those voters. But I don't like the way he did it. He accomplished that goal by having his surrogates seed the meme-stream with the "Hill's a racist" notion. Hillary was damned for injecting race into the campaign, when she did no such thing.
Meanwhile, Wright are allowed to talk about race all he wants -- and in the most inflammatory terms. Double standard!
Wright falsely accuses white people of calling Obama "nigger." No white person has done that, at least no white person within earshot of a microphone.
The accusation is, in and of itself, racist and paranoid. It is an appeal to the worst fears of his audience. To accuse all whites of using that word is like accusing all blacks of being thieves.
If Wright did not hate white people, he would never have uttered that smear.
I've heard a few speeches by Farrakhan. I must tell you, I have never heard him speak in this fashion.
I don't have a problem with his comments.
He didn't use the term whitey and didn't blame the joooos for killing Jesus.
I think people will get bent out of shape because he called Jesus a black man and won't admit THAT is the problem.
I'll love to have the Secret Service could tell us how many times Barak was called nigger and explain why they had to beef up his security.
Barak will win the nomination and will win the election if the Penn-Clinton-Wolfson cabal stops the fearmongering and lies.
You are out of your mind. You spend so much time in prog-land that you no longer recognize how most Americans think.
Based just on the footage above, I myself could cobble together a few campaign commercials for McCain that would send him to a 48-state victory.
How DARE you accuse Clinton of fearmongering? She has done nothing wrong.
Ran across this on TPM (is Josh banned, too?), and it says it better than I could:
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/03/she-got-our-antipathy-the-old.php
Now let me say this up front: I make no secret of the fact that I am a supporter, donor, and volunteer for Barack Obama. I linked to my two previous posts just because I feel it is important to be open and honest about that fact. I am proud of it. I think he is the best candidate that the Democratic Party has to offer at this time. I am absolutely confident that he will be our nominee. I am absolutely confident that he will go on to win the nomination against John W. McCain, just as I am absolutely confident that Senator McCain is absolutely the wrong choice at the wrong time given all that our nation faces.
I also link to my previous posts because I'm not writing now to directly address my support for Barack Obama, but rather my concern about the campaign of Senator Clinton, and in particular, some of her supporters. As an Obama supporter, I learn anew every day that you have to have pretty thick skin. At first we were called "Kool-Aid drinking cultists." Then it was "impressionable elites." Next we were maligned as "latte-sipping, Prius-driving, Birkenstock wearers." (Apparently being environmentally conscious and having comfortable footwear is antithetical to our party values now.) Today our enthusiastic support was demeaned as "tribalism." I just wish our detractors would be consistent with their generalizations: sometimes we're a bunch of immature kids, other times we're part of the tweed-jacketed professoriate, but frequently we're only supporting Barack Obama out of ignorance to his supposed lack of policy positions or ideas, simply because he speaks so well...
My concern is not that these insults are being voiced, but that they are being voiced so frequently by fellow Democrats, and more specifically, by supporters of Hillary Clinton. There seems to be a disconnect in play here: With a scant few exceptions, every Obama supporter I've ever met was also a Clinton supporter in the 90s. We remember Bill Clinton's rise to prominence. We remember how he was maligned as being too young, inexperienced, and unprepared for the job. We remembered how he was called a "fancy talker" and an "empty suit" who didn't understand Washington and needed some time to get his act together. We cheered him when he sat in on saxophone with Arsenio Hall's band. We voted for him. We stood behind him. We celebrated the economic gains that he helped bring about. We stood up to those who attacked him and his intelligent, strong, passionate wife Hillary. We denounced those who unfairly mocked his young daughter Chelsea. When his first term was nearing its end, we rose again and supported him. He rode that support to a defeat of Senator Robert Dole and he thanked us for standing with him.
Many of the folks who are supporting Barack Obama right now are the same folks who saw him look into the camera and lie about the Monica Lewinsky scandal. We decried what we were told was a politically-motivated witch hunt fueled with nothing but lies to bring our beloved candidate down. We believed in him. We believed him. When he perjured himself, we defended him with thin excuses about how embarrassed he must have been to have a personal weakness dragged out into the spotlight for political reasons. We supported him even though he lied to us. We supported his wife and his daughter. We shed tears for the hurt we knew they felt. We supported them. When Al Gore sought to distance himself from our President, we criticized him for it. We called him ungrateful. We stood up for the Clintons yet again.
When Hillary Clinton decided to take the unprecedented step of transitioning from First Lady to United States Senator, we rallied around her once again. We knew that she would be attacked and maligned by a GOP who had grown to hate everything attached to the name Clinton. Even though she wasn't actually "from" New York, we shouted down those who would call her a "carpetbagger." It was within the law, and if the people of New York wanted her to represent them, we were bound and determined to see it happen. When people said she wasn't qualified to sit in the Senate, we told them they were wrong. We reminded them of her intelligence, her resolve, her passion, her commitment.
Has Senator Clinton forgotten all these things? Have her supporters forgotten them? Have they forgotten that so many of the people who support the candidacy of Barack Obama now are people who once stood shoulder to shoulder in support of all things Clinton? I haven't. But it seems that many have. As I noted in my comment on the earlier thread, it seems like many people have lost sight of the difference between loyalty and blind allegiance. It seems like many people have come to ignore the many flaws in exhibited by the Clinton Campaign during this contest.
Are they ignoring the disdainful air of inevitability?
The signs of dismissive entitlement?
The disorganization and infighting?
Bill's remarks after the defeat in South Carolina?
The absence of traditional concession speeches?
The sad claims of victory in a race in which her opponents’ names were not on the ballot?
The slow and tepid response to Geraldine Ferraro's divisive, destructive, sad remarks?
I don't expect people who believe in a candidate to take these examples (along with the many others I could have cited) as a pattern of racism or take them as a preponderance of reasons to drop their support for her. I don't think Hillary Clinton is a racist. I don't think her campaign is brimming with racists. I don't think the bulk of her supporters are racist. And I don't begrudge them for supporting her. If they feel she is the best candidate and the best representation of their values, I want her supporters to continue to be engaged and vocal in their support. I encourage the fair-minded, open examination of the distinctions between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. After all, isn't that what this process is supposed to be about? I'm not writing to discourage that. I just haven't seen much of it lately. Instead, I write today to decry the apparent absence of critical or objective judgment on the part of so many of Senator Clinton's supporters, particularly in this forum. You don't seem to remember that many of us who you are now attacking were once Clinton supporters too. As Larry so succinctly put it, Hillary Clinton "got our antipathy the old fashioned way: She earned it."
You don't seem to remember. We can't forget.
"How DARE you accuse Clinton of fearmongering? She has done nothing wrong."
You are kidding, right?
Hillary is now perfection? And you are so offended that anyone DARE to question her??
My god, man; you've been culted!
Oh, right. An Obamabot accusing ME of being culted.
Stop reading the lies on the progblogs. You've lied to. Hoodwinked. Run Amuck.
I'll have a post up soon addressing the Clinton smears of the 1990s and how the LEFT has become the new repository for those falsehoods. I am sick of the left because I am sick of the lying.
You accuse ME of blind allegiance? That's like Dennis Rodman accusing St. Bernadette of promiscuity.
By the way, none of you cowards has bothered to take up my challenge or to address my point:
"Be honest. Ruthlessly honest. If Hillary Clinton spent twenty years attending a church headed by a racist "Identity" preacher, would the nation forgive her?
"How far would she get with that "You can't blame the minister on the congregant" argument?
"C'mon, admit it. Just fucking admit it. She would be raked over the coals, and you know it."
Well? Do you have a response, cowards?
Joe,
Unlike you, I will vote for the Democratic candidate regardless of this latest stuff.
However, it's serious shit. Obama cannot win if the Republicans swiftboat the hell out of him with it.
Strange that you chose the lesser of evils with your You Tube selection - I thought the "God Damn America" sermon was much worse,
Regardless, no doubt the dirtiest campaign I've seen a Democrat run in my lifetime is now wallowing in its own filth, and that's sad because I used to think Obama was something special.
Meanwhile, please check out this most absurd of absurd diaries at Daily Kos.
John
SluggoJD
We had Sophie 'Mayor Sophie' Masloff in Pittsburgh, 1988-1994. She's still there at 90.
Something happened, it was supposed to be a kind of le sacre du printemps, Hillary in splendor, everyone would have a place in her administration, Barry was supposed to anchor the party's conscience, the best of the rest and the greatest Vice President Elect ever (plus Heir Apparent) but then he won Iowa, the first contest. It was like the JFK assassination in reverse or something, a bolt out of the blue and into a bottle, and this is what's become of it.
Being ruthlessly honest, I have a feeling Hillary spent plenty of her formative years indoctrinated enough to be a racist, Goldwater Republican until she turned maybe 180 into someone who knew it required ruthless honesty to get anything good accomplished. I also think Tiger Woods stole her great smile. Be honest, ruthlessly honest: try to name another smile like theirs.
For the record... I've made this site a very regular stop. I disagree with much of what big joe says but I enjoyed the bare perspectives and comments. I think he's running a lot of people away... I'm tired of his fanaticism myself. Intelligent men and women will go elsewhere and so will I. Sayanora. I've enjoyed it for a while and good luck.
Seriously, it's odd to be sad to have to say goodby.
well, Joe, I appreciate your standing up for Hillary. She deserves defending. However, I am annoyed that I will not be able to read dr. elsewhere's deleted comment, and I will miss her contributions to your blog.
You have become alarmingly brittle. I wish you well and hope your blog continues. It has meant a lot to me.
Cynthia
To anyone who leaves: Sorry, but I learned a long time ago never to pay attention to such remarks, and neither should any other blogger. A writer is not a merchant trying to please customers.
But before you go, why not have a go at answering my words. If you cannot answer, then at least have the decency and honesty to admit that you cannot muster up an answer:
Be honest. Ruthlessly honest. If Hillary Clinton spent twenty years attending a church headed by a racist "Identity" preacher, would the nation forgive her?
How far would she get with that "You can't blame the minister on the congregant" argument?
C'mon, admit it. Just fucking admit it. She would be raked over the coals, and you know it.
Great to know you decided to support Hillary based on the fact you don't like the sermon of Obama's local church priest in Chicago. And you’re completely throwing away the context that his relationship with that church was never based on theology, but on local activism when Obama started working as a social worker in that poor Chicago neighborhood in 1983. I don't think you realize that just trying to compare on the same level a black "identity" church and a white "supremacist" church is in itself racism.
Compare this with the KKK:
The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:
1.A congregation committed to ADORATION.
2.A congregation preaching SALVATION.
3.A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
4.A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
5.A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
6.A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
7.A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
8.A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
9.A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
10.A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.
And while you're at it, you should make the list of all the people for whom Obama must take responsibility for what they say. Since you voted for him, are you part of that list? Or could Obama simply make a blanket statement like : what my supporters say is their responsability ?
I can't understand how someone can look at the current situation with a rational mind and consider Hillary the poor victim of the evil Obama. But it's a Cannonfire's classic, you can't separate the supporters from their cause. So if you feel attacked or annoyed by some Obama supporters, then going after Obama become your cause.
You should focus on the topics where you have an added value to the discussion, not the opposite. But it’s your home, so I’ll see you later till your finish with this new “crisis”…
Anyway, I’ll just need to watch Hannity and Colmes to get the same arguments that I get here.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200703010012
Think what you like, H-man. Your opinion doesn't matter. Like it or not, Obama cannot win without the votes of a lot of white people, and they are gonna hate Wright when they truly get to meet him.
And McCain is going to arrange a meeting.
I know my opinion doesn't count, I can't vote in the US, I only have the privilege of an outside non-partisan point of view. Clinton or Obama I don't really care, as long as it's not McCain !
"Like it or not, Obama cannot win without the votes of a lot of white people, and they are gonna hate Wright when they truly get to meet him."
I would think that Obama will have the opportunity to distance himself from that pastor if it becomes an issue. But why should he do it proactively while it's only insane people like Hannity who focus on this issue ? And I'm not sure most people would be able to evaluate this pastor discourse as the equivalent of a black KKK / supremacist movement like you do.
And compared this to the 10+ years of propaganda, slanders and lies they have against Clinton... No wonder Republicans helped Clinton in Texas like Limbaugh asked them to do, they know she'll be easier to knock out.
You wont admit it, but you're just frustrated against some Obama supporters and you're poorly trying to convince yourself you now hate Obama based on not much. You're really sure it's not an overblown ego issue here ?
"I would think that Obama will have the opportunity to distance himself from that pastor if it becomes an issue."
He cannot. TWENTY YEARS' WORTH OF ATTENDANCE. Actions speak louder than words. No words can suffice.
It won't be just people like Hannity who care, believe me.
I've put my prophesy on th record. Let us now see.
Opinions are like........
Joe, I have enjoyed this site immensely over the years. I think it's time for a break. I also think if you go back and look at my comment you will see that I did not attack you, but simply stated an opinion as i saw it. I think you are very good at historical examination, particularly within a political context. However, this issue of race is something you seem to be emotionally caught up in and thus seem unable to approach with a cool head. Most white people have this problem, so you needn't be to hard on yourself.
You accuse me of being an Obama supporter, though I have given you no indication of such. I am in fact not, though I have developed some respect for the man. You have called me a name with no explanation, which is childish at best.
I think this election is going to get very emotional for people. I see what is going on here as a microcosm of what is to come. Normally rational people are going to "flip their lids".
Good luck Joe! It's been great reading your blog. Perhaps I'll come back after the election. And if BHO wins, I won't even ask you to eat crow :)
You could be right Joseph but I still think Obama will beat McCain. McCain isn't running against Wright,although he may try, and going after a man's church is problematic. It could back-fire. So far we have only heard a few clips of Wright, out of 20 years. He's probably said a lot of good things too.
I could probably scour through Cannonfire and come up with a few shocking things too.
Say it ain't so, Joe! I'm joining in with all the others saying sayonara. I've loved reading your blog over the years but now I feel that to keep reading would be to endorse the statements you've just made. Pastor Wright, like it or not, was telling the TRUTH.
Get better soon.
Lea in Minnesota
I don't understand the vehement disgust that some people find with Obama's former pastor. He uses a lot of hyperbole but I don't think he crosses any lines. If you want to deny institutionalized racism in the U.S. then you can continue to live in your little dream world. I don't think Clinton can beat McCain, so say good bye to reproductive choice and start building caskets for your kids.
Yeah, yeah. When I went after the trannies, they were making huge headway among the anti-Bush forces. Back then, people said "I'm going away, never reading you again, nobody will ever read your blog..." And my stats went UP.
The left eventually woke up vis-a-vis the trannies and their pseudo-scientific horseshit.
Eventually, they will see that Obama was a mistake.
You're right, Gary -- going after a man's pastor is iffy. But this is unprecedented. Wright said that America got what it deserved on 911, Obama went on considering Wright his spiritual mentor, and now Obama wants to be president. YOU may have no problem with all that. Lots of others will find the scenario intolerable.
Wonderful post. Don't let the obama maniacs knock you down. The fact that they refuse to see why Wright is offensive and the fact that they will go through any gyrations to support Obama regardless of how inconsistent it is with their prior positions just shows how divorced from reality they have become.
Wright's speeches are as hatefilled as any that have been denounced from fundamentalist preachers and should be equally condemned. And just as we condemn those who pander to the fundamentalists- then why shouldn't we condemn Obama for lauding and denoting money to Wright. Over $20,000 last year alone.
And this crazy uncle response is ridiculous. This is not a relative. This is not a church Obama grew up in. This is a person Obama chose, as a college educated man, to be his mentor and spiritual advisor.
If that doesn't reveal horrendous judgment- I don't know what does.
I am with you. Go Hillary.
I think Rev. Wright's thinking is wrong. He is not from my generation. Nor is he from Obama's. But I cannot pretend to have walked in his shoes. Being a black man in America is something I have never, nor will I ever experience.
Why do we pretend to imagine that whites and blacks have had the same experience in America?
Michael
Your kind of comments are exactly those that blacks have condemned as racists. That blacks have been so mistreated that well of course we can't expect them to be fully responsible for their actions.
Many blacks don't want this victim role. Obama doesn't - so why as a supporter of him are you trying to excuse his spiritual advisor.
I will treat Rev. Wright like an adult and condemn him for his hate filled sermons. And I will wonder why Obama decided to pick such a man as a mentor and expose his children to this kind of claptrap.
"Why do we pretend to imagine that whites and blacks have had the same experience in America?"
Did I say anything about that? WHERE did I say anything about that?
I said that Wright hates white people. His venom is obvious.
I said that the American people will not vote for a man who, for twenty years, attended a church run by a guy who thinks America got what it deserved on 911.
They just won't vote that way. You may think they SHOULD, but I'm not talking about "should."
They WON'T.
lol...your indignation is highly entertaining. If only White people were this offended by real racism (pointing out that racism exists is not racism by the way) then this country would be a better place.
Jesus Christ, what a bunch of loony toons you people are. Christ on a cracker, is Wright not allowed to express disgust with the inherent inequality and racism in our society? So a black man is only a viable candidate for president if he never associates with anyone who has expressed so-called "black anger?" And Jesus CHRIST I am tired of hearing the "Wah wah, he attended that church for twenty yeaaaaaaaars" garble. Do you think Rev. Wright gave the same fucking sermon every week? Do you think every speech he ever gave was devoted to maligning whitey? Jesus. What a bunch of fucking maroons. Wright said some controversial things. BIG FUCKING DEAL. I'd be willing to wager he said some pretty fucking inspiring things, too, and some beautiful things and some kind things. He's also responsible for alot of tolerant speech, alot of inclusiveness, a lot of community activism if you'd care to go beyond three-minute sound-bytes. But nevermind. You fucking so-called "liberals" who take issue with the notion that black people might think black people get an unfair deal in this country can suck it. Join the fucking right wing hate machine and you can all bemoan your poor poor white plight. You all sicken me.
The right isn't going to use this against Obama in the fall unless they want to dredge up Hagee and McCain's other less savory endorsements. So spare me your precious concern. And as for your darling Hillary--perhaps you should look into her association with the conservative Fellowship in Washington. Barf.
"Fuck you, you lying paranoid asshole."
No no Joe, just a realist. And such language. Who you been taken lessons form?
"You seem to be under the impression that white people use the so-called N-word all the time. That is pure paranoid horseshit."
Not all, never said that. But there are still many racist in this country. Most likely more than you can guess cause many are in the closet. You really do need to get out more.
"The only times I have heard the word "nigger" in many years (in real life, not in the movies or on TV) was when it was used by young black people on the bus. Even people whom I knew to be bigoted and ignorant have learned not to use that term. Not even at home."
See previous point.
I believe I said under their breath or out of ear shot. Most racist are chicken shit and would never say that to a black man's face for fear of getting their white asses kicked.
And that Joesph you can take to the bank my boy. You see I speak from personal knowledge. I have lived the life for real my friend.
Not just a bus ride where I was close to some black men, not the movies, not on my computer.
"If you think that this is the way all whites REALLY think once your back is turned -- well, to hell with you. Talking to you is as hopeless as talking to a CD-er or to someone convinced of the Great Freemasonic Conspiracy."
Not all whites, not even many. Yes today's America is better but still has a long way to go and any racism is bad. Just because there isn't millions behind the racist hate & language doesn't make some racism OK.
Even you can't be nieve enough to think that this doesn't happen frequently.
Maybe you should take a different bus?
And what was that I read about you saying how this web site is like your home and everyone should treat everyone nicely? If you are willing to write the kind of stuff you did and direct it at me I can only imagine what your mouth has to spew behind closed doors.
Have you heard the news ? It didn't took a lot of time for Obama to distance himself from the controversial pastor and remove him from his campaign.
You'll need something else to help the Republicans against Obama.
"See previous point.
I believe I said under their breath or out of ear shot. Most racist are chicken shit and would never say that to a black man's face for fear of getting their white asses kicked."
You didn't read me. I said that white people don't use the word in private either. They just don't.
(I take it we can agree to exclude from the above all uses of the word "nigger" AS a word, and as quotation or recitation of dialogue.)
Just now, I heard from a insane critic who said that Hillary is sending coded racial messages because she hopes to win over the "superdelegates" who are mostly white.
As though every white were racist!
As though racism were the surest way to appeal to key members within the DEMOCRATIC party!
Of course, in the real world, any show of racism would repulse important figures within the Democratic party.
Not that you will believe me. Paranoid jackasses like you are too wedded to your silly fantasies and to your Hillary-hate.
My god, I cannot freaking BELIEVE the paranoia on display in prog-land these days!
I had best make a quick addition to the above...
"You didn't read me. I said that white people don't use the word in private either. They just don't."
Actually, I am sure that some white people DO use that term. But those brutish jerks surely won't vote for Hillary under ANY circumstances. Neither would they be likely ever to vote for any Democrat.
Hillary KNOWS this -- which is why the Myth is so ridiculous on its face.
It really is true that I haven't heard a white person use that term in many years. Even Archie Bunker stopped using it in 1972.
Sorry to puncture your persecution fantasies.
Yeah, I know you made a copy of your lie-filled post, anon. Reread it. Like hell I'm going to to be accused of "cowardice" by piece of prog filth who won't sign his own name, as I do.
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I haven't looked at Cannonfire lately (no offense, just busy) but browsing around here and seeing the quantity of spam and stupidity comments only reinforces that you are on the right track supporting Sen Clinton and pointing to Sen Obama's unelectability.
Obama is getting huge money, media and organizational backing from the same folks that (I wish there was some other way to say this) that put Benito Mussolini and Adolph Hitler into power in Europe. They have no intention that he be elected--they just don't want Clinton because she might employ an FDR-type solution to the deep trouble that more and more people are beginning to realize we are in. Namely protecting home owners and actual banks (not investment houses like Bear Sterns), and government credit at low interest toward infrastructure, and an attitude of international cooperation instead of permanent war.
So the name of the game is use Obama to take care of Clinton, destroy Obama thru scandal, the Obama supporters will be left dazed and confused, and put a populist-faced corporatist (e.g. fascist) in power, maybe even as VP under a short-lived president.
And if you think this pastor scandal is heavy... you ain't seen nothin yet. We ["we" are beyond your worst short-attention-span nightmare, Americans] have to be sure who gets the Dem nomination. Hopefully Obama, because then we are going to turn him to dust in the wind.
We can afford to run these ops, we get so many digital dollars, you can't conceive...
And Joe will vote for McCain with Bloomberg as VP. Oh, perfect. I never thought we'd get Joe.
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