[UPDATES at end of post]
The past few posts have attracted quite the discussion about all things elective. Be sure to scroll down and check them out, especially the excellent comments.
But I just had to share. This is absolutely priceless.
Rawstory has posted an exchange between an election reporter and Karl Rove on NPR yesterday that has got me pretty darn cranked. Here it is, and I'll bet the bird dog each and every reader gets the point (dr. e's emphases):
After midterm election interviewer Robert Siegel stated that "many might consider you on the optimistic end of realism" regarding Republican hopes to retain both Houses in November, Rove suggested that the NPR host was biased."The" math??? "THE" math???!!!
"Not that you would be exhibiting a bias or anything like that," Rove said. "You're just making a comment."
"I'm looking at all the same polls that you're looking at every day," Seigel responded
"No you're not!" Rove exclaimed.
Rove said that he was reviewing 68 polls a week, and that "unlike the general public, I'm allowed to see the polls on the individual races," as opposed to public polls reported in the media.
"You may be looking at four or five public polls a week that talk about attitudes nationally, but that do not impact the outcome," Rove said.
Rove claimed that the polls "add up to a Republican Senate and a Republican House."
"You may end up with a different math, but you're entitled to your math," Rove said. "I'm entitled to 'the' math."
(To read the rest, click "Permalink" below)
So actually what we have here is Rove Revealed, his arrogance and delusion as much as his ruse. Karl has apparently convinced himself that the American pundits and the American public are only watching the general polls, polls that come out in Newsweek and Time every couple of weeks measuring the pulse of the nation at large, polls that say Bush's approval hasn't lifted out of the 30s in a year and a half, and that say a solid majority think Iraq was a mistake and is a disaster and we should get the hell out. Those consistently dreadful polls, for the Republicans anyway. Karl thinks those are the only polls we're watching.
Does he honestly believe that the general public is not allowed to see all those individual polls on all those individual races?? Does he honestly believe he and only perhaps a select (and selectED, winkwink nudgenudge) few of the chosen media analysts are actually viewing the results of all those dozens that come out every week? Does he really so casually dismiss the trends of the general public as irrelevant in this election, and - dare I say it? - in the American election process? Is this guy really that obtuse?
If you read the rest of the interview transcript, I think you'll draw the same conclusion I did: Yup, he really really is, at least that obtuse. (Like we didn't already know that.)
Just one to tempt you (like you needed tempting). The interviewer, Robert Siegel, asks him what values he has been encouraging the volunteers to share with voters, and this is what Rove says:
Well, for example, look, one -- the war on terror. Do you support in a time of war reauthorization of the Patriot Act, the terrorist surveillance program? There's a vote in the House; 88 percent of the Democrats in the House voted against giving additional authority to a program to listen in on suspected al Qaeda figures calling or trying to contact people inside the United States. The vote on the CIA interrogation bill -- where, again, over 80 percent of the Democrats in the House and Senate voted against a program of the CIA interrogating high-value targets like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of the 9/11.There it is, folks. He's convinced the WOT is going to win this one for the Gipper AGAIN!!
And, at least as interesting, take note of what he does with this general "terror" issue, in answer to a question about values. Karl lists each of the heinous bills pushed through this godforsaken rubberstamp 109th that were, at least in large part, clearly constructed to double-bind Democrats in times of election! All those bills that double-dared Democrats to put their asses in indefensible slings, slings that Republicans could thrust into every Democratic election bubble, along with the arrows of outrageous misfortune.
Except that Rove's disclosure here suggests pretty boldly that he should consider trying a new, "real" calculator. "The" math he claims to be relying on seems to come right out of that "truthiness" realm he has constructed somewhere outside the reality-based community. So why should we be surprised? I suppose because this appears to be such a bold revelation of contradiction and self-delusion that, in times past, they've been much better at keeping behind the curtain. But then, when you really think about it, this is all too consistent with Drudge's revealing blamefest of those "young beasts" who tempted Foley, Coulter's screed against the Jersey girls, Limbaugh's savaging of Michael J. Fox, Allen's macaca moment, now all the racist ads and of course the daily scandals, and on and on. Not only do they appear to be imploding, but - and this is key - it is no longer taboo to point it out, to exclaim that not only does this Emperor wannabe have no clothes, but he also has a puny li'l weewee.
Democrats may be blamed for being unherdable cats when it comes to cohesive policy, but they've been a good bit more consistent when it comes to principle, whereas the Republicans - precisely because they summarily ditched principle back somewhere around Nixon - can no longer hold anything together, what with all their slime showing.
I have to say, first, that this is a clear indication that the "Architect" is way off his game, or we're witnessing exposure of the fact that he is a one-trick Fartblossoming pony. The latter is by far the more logical conclusion, given the abundance of the evidence.
And second, I also have to say that this is neither surprising nor disturbing. In fact, this little interview may be more revealing than anything we've seen from Rove the Rogue, ever.
UPDATE 1: The first comment below, from Dr. Stern, asks the obvious question about Rove's smug knowledge of, um, special, hidden factors that might, um, influence the outcome of the upcoming elections. And within minutes of reading the comment, I found this excellent analysis of the situation from the perspective of states and contests most vulnerable to, um, manipulation. In addition to listing Greg Palast's voter suppression strategies, this thorough and edifying piece breaks down the current statistical likelihood of Democrats winning the House (99% likelihood) and Senate (74% likelihood).
WARNING: "The" REAL math statistics are included in this article (not likely Karl's). Don't be daunted, as it is quite readable, and not that hard to understand. And just for the record, I'm fairly savvy with stats, and the reasoning behind these analyses is quite sound. And also for the record, the basic math that supports this analysis, and supports the logic of exit polls and global warming and the lack of logic behind balancing the budget while cutting taxes, it's fundamentally all the same. 1 + 1 will always equal 2. The likelihood of getting heads when you flip a coin will always be 50%. The likelihood that all, or even enough of the predicted Democratic victories turn Republican on the 7th? Astronomical.
UPDATE 2: Then there is this "startling" revelation by a WH staffer about Rove's role in Iraq policy; talk about revealing!
15 comments:
Or he could sound like a guy who has access to the numbers his hacked Diebolds will produce on November 7, so it doesn't much matter what else he has to say.
I hope THAT notion is just paranoid fantasy, but I'll withold judgement until my birtday (11/8).
sofla said...
Or, he may be like then-NH Gov. John Sunnunu, formerly the head of the U-NH computer science department, GUARANTEEING that GHW Bush would win the NH primary at a 60% vote figure (iirc).
That was highly unlikely, given that Bush had been relegated to a third place finish in Iowa, finishing behind PAT ROBERTSON, and the field in NH had maybe 8 contestants.
Well, Bush 41 came in at exactly the number Sunnunu guaranteed, and Sunnunu went on to become Bush 41's chief of staff.
Hey Joseph, whats your input on Weller's land purchases in Nicargua?
http://www.chicagoreader.com/features/stories/wellerbeach/
heh, the math that supports global warming
let a = x
a+a = a+x [add a to both sides]
2a = a+x [a+a = 2a]
2a-2x = a+x-2x [subtract 2x from both sides]
2(a-x) = a+x-2x [2a-2x = 2(a-x)]
2(a-x) = a-x [x-2x = -x]
thus 2 = 1 [divide both sides by a-x]
Dr E. FYI, the betting markets are showing something quite different to the 'media' - the markets have the GOP at 2/1 (approx) to keep the House, and the Dems at 3/1 (approx) to take the Senate.
in other words, the GOP chances in the House are better than the Dem chance in the Senate.
(tradesports.com)
Welp, I guess in an ownership society, Karl can own "the" maths. Give allll the maths to Karl. Sigh.
When they steal this one, I am afraid there will be riots. People hate Bush in South Carolina, a traditionally red state! As far as "other polls", when did America become a two cast system?? Under Rove(r) and Bush right?
If global warming detractors ever wonder what that constant ringing in their heads is, it's probably the "divide by zero error" alarm.
hey, math wiz anon...
there is a slight error in your calculations (aside from the 1=2 problem.
when you multiply 2 times a-x, you fail to recall your fundamental premise that a=x, AND the fundamental math fact that mulitplying anything by zero leaves zero.
if a=x, then a-x=0.
the final two lines of your equations are essentially
zero = zero.
seems fitting in the context of this rove post, eh?
[although i feel the need to add that, as an undergrad, a math major pal of mine showed me a proof that 1=2, but by taking the route of approximation.]
How about some psychological math?
One thing Rove got a chance to do on this program was to frame the issue to a lot of people, connect the Republican party with the winning side of the election equation, connect the Democrats to losing and add some fear:
He states that Republicans are winning . So by default Democrats are losing.
And while that association is floating around in the brains of viewers who are not reading the individual polls, let's punish someone (hmmm who should we punish...or shall we let them punish themselves):
So he says as time gets closer, voters will have to think about the Consequences of winning or losing. Interesting choice of words. The "Consequences" of winning? That makes no sense and so it evaporates. All we are left with then is the "Consequences" of losing and losing=Democrat.
All in all, he has to link Republicans with the winning side in order to draw us down that crooked little path of fear and Consequences of losing. What's he care if he has to lie. And if that's not classic Rove I don't know what is.
I'm heartened in a way that he is doing this. I just hope there aren't many buyers. I expect to hear more of the same.
~Miss P.
miss p, great analysis.
rove's is definitely a deadly psychological game. but he tends to forget that the psychologies he is attempting to manipulate are humans and not entirely the dumb automatons he seems to think we are.
moreover, he forgets that he is also subject to his own psychology (ooh; what a scary thought). he is far from infallible, and has in fact screwed up pretty bad in the past.
i am so hoping he gets caught red-handed tripping the vote counts.
Thanks dr. e., I'm hoping by now that most people are on to Rove. But I have my doubts about his insidousness not being somewhat effective. Poor Sick-Karl. The more effective he is the sicker he is, Really.
But here's how it plays out sometimes. My mom just came back to town from the old summer house in upstate no-tv radio-only northwoods. Our conversation went to Foley. And she said, "But, you know he's a Democrat? It's common knowledge." OMG! That means everyone in that sparse place (which I love for exactly that reason!) is....game. They never heard otherwise. And no connection to Hastert can be logically made if one thinks Foley was a Dem! Who would think to have to verify party affiliation?! (Other than bloggers that is:)
And I promise my mom's no slouch. Though I was secretly glad she got hooked. She doesn't like people messing with the facts (she's an historian) and she's used to honesty, as most of us are. Now she knows a little more, and I'm sure she detests it. To her, it's like people stealing her work - since her work is memory of fact.
P.S. The only Consequence I genuinely fear is the result of Sick-Karl vote manipulation. I'll take to the streets!!! I figure I'll know what to do then although I don't now.
Miss P.
Who cares what Rove says? He and his ilk lie all the time, as is to be expected.
What everyone is missing is the fact that NPR can now be counted as a Bush-friendly asset.
The function of this interview is to prop up the myth of the liberal media, which we have been programmed to believe NPR represents. Look at the title of this story:
Rove 'dukes it out' with NPR host over polling data
This implies that Rove "fought" against an enemy, and in case you forgot who the enemy is, Rove drives home the liberal bias bullshit with this quote:
MR. ROVE: Not that you would be exhibiting a bias or anything like that. You're just making a comment
There. NPR is cast as the liberal media enemy which Rove is bravely going toe to toe with .
Now keep in mind that the Bushies only appear on Fox, Limbaugh, and Hannity, where they are safe from logic and honest factual reporting or questioning.
NPR shill Robert Siegel allows Rove to crap all over him, and is reduced to jelly here:
MR. SIEGEL: I'm looking at all the same polls that you're looking at every day.
MR. ROVE: No you're not. No you're not!
MR. SIEGEL: No, I'm not --
Whatever you say Mr. Rove, sir!
This interview is propaganda.
The topic of conversation is not important,rather it is an attempt to stir up the fake liberal vs. conservative nonsense.
Each "side" can claim scoring points in this sham bout of "duking it out", but the truth is that as the elections draw nearer, the fake ideas that there is a two party system and a liberal media in this country must be perpetuated in order for the voters to dutifully run out and conform to the strategies predicted by game theory wielding election experts.
anon543, you're right, this is a classic rove example of his propagand style, and though it's seemed to work so well in the past, it's not clear that it does anymore.
you're right, siegel didn't really press him that hard, but rove was just plain rude and arrogant.
he spoke with precisely the same arrogance and condescension we heard in that top WH aide ron suskind quoted as placing "us" in the reality-based community, whereas "they" create reality.
i'm now more convinced than ever that rove uttered that quote.
but now, in this npr exchange, rove can no longer pull his bullying off with any real clout. he just comes off like a pompous ass. i'm actually glad siegel didn't push him any further; that's not the npr style. say what you will about npr, but they still have class.
and last night i watched a pbs special on the few months prior to the iraqi election. it was stunning. they still do good work, despite all the grief they've taken in recent years, they are still the best we got.
and they're really not that bad.
and for all rove's attempts in that interview to make them the enemy, the bad guys, he failed. he failed miserably.
I believe it's "Turdblossom," not "Fartblossom."
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