I haven't heard the phrase "Never again!" in years -- perhaps because everyone understands that it is happening again. And the Israelis are doing it.
More than a few people have drawn the obvious comparison between the current attack on Lebanon and the atrocities committed by the Nazis in the aftermath of the assassination of Reinhard Heidrich (who, incidentally, was an architect of the Holocaust). The comparison is inexact only to the extent that the Israelis have killed more people, and have razed a city, not a village.
The propagandists have tried to sell this attack as a self-defense measure, but that assertion is falling apart. We know now that this war was provoked by neither rocket attacks nor kidnappings -- in fact, it was planned long ago.
What, then, do we make of those all-too-convenient rocket attacks and kidnappings? Perhaps we should categorize them alongside the staged "attack on German soldiers" used to justify the Nazi invasion of Poland. I do not trust Barry Chamish (who often gets into conspiratorial realms too dank and confused for even me) but his recent claims may spark others to do some independent investigation:
And now we know why Corporal Shalit was handed over to Hamas. Read the findings of the IDF's investigator Col. Giora Eiland. The kidnapping was caught on a surveillance camera. A soldier wanted to shoot the kidnappers but was denied the opportunity by his officer.Victimized children often grow up to become victimizers. At what point can we fairly say that the victims of the Nazis have become Nazis?
"Israel is a democracy!" shout that nation's defenders -- but so was the United States during the slaughter of the Indians. And so was Germany when Hitler came to power. Does anyone doubt that Hitler would have won had fair and honest elections been held in 1939? At any rate, we can hardly call Israel a true democracy until the vote is extended to all the people whose lives are controlled by the Israeli government. (And there are persistent, impossible-to-ignore allegations that the right has corrupted the Israeli electoral process.)
Reader Robert Boldt sent me his own thoughts on this historical analogy. I don't agree with all that he says, but I do want to spark debate. Please note that I have never seen any independent verification for the quote backed by the fourth footnote. Note as well that I cannot agree that Israel should cease to exist. I do hold that it should cease to exist as presently constituted. Democracy must be extended to all who live there, regardless of religion or race; the idea of a "Jewish state" is as repellent and indefensible as is the notion of an "Aryan state" -- or, for that matter, the notion of an exclusively Arab or Islamic state.
I certainly can sympathize with Boldt's sweeping condemnation of all forms of monotheist orthodoxy.
All text below the asterisks belongs to Boldt.
* * *
Of course there is no hard and fast point-by-point analogy in comparing Israel to the German Nazis. The comparison is deliberately inflammatory and a strict historical stretch at best. There are disturbing proclivities that lie deep within the modern Jewish/Israel psyche that seem to have driven them to imitate their former oppressors. I wish I could say that the downtrodden victim of abuse never goes on to visit the same rape and pillage upon his own children and other innocents under his domination. Sad to say the opposite is more than often the rule.
I agree the Israelis are not trying to destroy the Palestinians in exactly the same way that the Germans were trying to eliminate the Jews. But Israel is practicing its own unique genocide in its own way. There are just too many people watching and they don’t have quite the same amount of impunity the Krauts had – nearly, but once again, not the quite the same amount. I find the “Wall” not all that different from Auschwitz and Treblinka except the modern Jews lack the German obsession with efficiency and speed. The Israelis have just built it around their victims rather than building the camp and herding everyone in. Of course the Israelis haven’t set up the ovens - yet. It’s far more fun for their soldiers to use Palestinian children for gunnery training and practice driving their shiny new American Caterpillar tractors over young activists. I also think Israel’s Lebanon scorched earth policy, which by this time next week will probably have resulted in a modern disaster worthy of a reapplication of the term “Holocaust,” is something the Reich III would well understand and applaud. After all the Nazis took the policy of recriminations against innocent civilians to a height unexcelled only until recently by the Israelis. Oh don’t tell me about that little barbarian, Pol Pot – we are talking about “civilized” white men here.
The present situation has caused me to think the unthinkable and consider the abandoning of certain ideas that I had been taught to think of as unassailable. I have examined my intellectual and emotional reactions to these propositions I have had thrust in my face by the present state of the world and found my conclusions repellant and distasteful. I can fully understand other’s unwillingness to concur in my assertions. I wish I could draw back from these conclusions myself, but I cannot.
(To read the rest, click "Permalink" below)
The first conclusion I have reluctantly come to is that Israel has become what it hated. In a peculiar form of a realpolitck Stockholm-syndrome, Israel has permanently taken on the spirit of the racist, imperialist ideology of their Nazi oppressors of old. All that is lacking is to call a spade a spade and attach the dreaded swastika to their enterprise. I do not like being forced by the evidence to these conclusions. [1] I struggled for days to try to compose a graphic that would express the condition of Israel and the measure of their crimes and atrocities. “Stop Israel !” “Israel Out Now!” “Condemn Israel” just didn’t seem to carry nearly the magnitude of their culpability or the need for a swift sure cauterizing action necessary to bring to a halt, once and for all, this mad regime. “Israel” spelled with a swastika in place of the “s” seemed the only graphic able to carry the full meaning or the outrage that I felt must be expressed. I realize the swastika is a symbol that has been prohibited as being the height of political incorrectness and bad taste. It creates a visceral, Pavlovian response in most people so that it can never be used to either advocate for a revival of German National Socialism or never to be used to accuse Israel of committing the same excesses they have had visited upon themselves.Another unthinkable conclusion I have come to is that the civilized world needs to begin to formulate certain ways and means to implement the termination of Israel as a military-political entity. Its existence as an oppressor in the region, its threat as a nuclear power, its treatment of the Palestinians together with human rights violations unmatched by few others in the civilized world plus its inability to self correct and become a productive member of the human community, I think, should have forced Israel to forfeit its membership among the society of nations. Amerika is completely responsible for the conduct and the survival of Israel. Israel could not exist without massive government and private support from the United States. It is not a self-sustaining endeavor. Make no mistake about this; I am not advocating the destruction of the nation in a military incursion like Lebanon or Iraq. Like Terri Schiavo, our support should be (gently?) withdrawn - both financial and military aid from the US government as well as a complete economic boycott by all peace-loving nations. A massive UN evacuation and resettlement of Israel’s citizens should be set up for those who wish to leave and avoid a massacre by invading elements.
Violence always produces an opposite and usually a more powerful reaction. To the destabilizing of fully half the earth, Israel has failed to learn that lesson. We seem not to have learned it either – not even in spite of Vietnam. We, like Israel, still keep thinking the answer to every problem in geopolitics is a military one. It is difficult to imagine the Middle-east without Israel. I would really like to try…
A word about American Jews and the Jewish lobby, American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC): Americans need to understand the degree to which Israel and its insidious agents have attempted to buy, intimidate and coerce every local and national politician in this country. This is the message Tom Hayden spoke of in his essay, I was Israel’s Dupe. [2] There is no aspect of our society that has not been corrupted by these agents whose sole purpose is the protection of Israel at the expense of the United States. Is it not surprising that congress nearly unanimously voted to support the destruction of Lebanon. Nearly Unanimously! Good gods, they actually own the whole damned congress – bought and paid for!!! [3]
Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon: “…we the Jewish people control America." [4]
It’s time to end the Israel fairy tale. The left has too long been divided on this issue. It is time we remove the scales from our eyes and see the malignancy that is Israel for what it is. Do you realize there is more dissonance between Jews in Israel as to their fascist policies than there is among the faithful in America? The poor Jews in this country that still maintain their unthinking, maniacal allegiance to the “homeland” must be abandoned as hopelessly deluded and beyond hope of rational persuasion or conversion. They must be left behind in the dust of the road flailing and frothing hysterically while we move into the real world the way it really is. The survival of our country (for what that is worth) depends on it. We must wage the most brutally honest media campaign against Israel possible. Israel must be castrated militarily. In the name of humanity there should not be left one stone standing upon another in that whole horrid land. The land of Israel must cease to exist. It should be given to the Palestinians who have earned it several times over. If it were within my power I would also order that the shrines to monotheism that have fostered so much violence, bloodshed and the wasting of innocent life be dismantled as well. I will hold that proposal for another day. The great massacres inspired by our theological differences are actually indications that monotheism is at long last suffering its grand final gasp. The only trouble is that these three great plagues of humanity: Judaism, Christianity and Islam may do us all in before their final rattle. Events seem to point to this.
It’s time to shout “fire” in the crowded theatre. If it takes the judicious and deliciously appropriate use of a swastika - I say let’s use it.
I am willing to listen to strategic arguments on this. What I would vehemently insist on is the importance of the strongest possible anti-Israel advocacy by the left as quickly as possible. Talk about the earth in the balance!
Bob Boldt
[1] “Freud would have offered us a more chilling lesson… Identification with the aggressor. As the lesson of the Holocaust. The inability to live out the trauma of the genocide one experienced in any other way. Do unto others what was done onto you. The only deliverance from the trauma of one’s dehumanization is to remake oneself in the image of the Nazi. Projection of that brutality onto another is the proof that one has learned the lesson. The lesson that one has internalized the fascist imperative: Orwell’s boot brought down on the face of everything human in the other.” - Walter A. Davis (see the link, Kafka’s Birthday, for a complete essay by Professor Davis on the subject.) (http://mwcnews.net/content/view/7922/42/)
[2] “…all these rank-and-file constituencies were attuned to the question of Israel, even in local and state elections, and would never vote for a candidate perceived as anti-Israel or pro-Palestinian. I had to be certified “kosher,” not once but over and over again.” - Tom Haden, I Was Israel’s Dupe His essay is worth the read and will open your eyes. (http://counterpunch.com/Hayden07202006.html)
[3] Associated Press – July 21, 2006 “The house, displaying a foreign affairs solidarity lacking on issues such as Iraq, voted overwhelmingly yesterday to support Israel in its confrontation with Hezbollah guerrillas. The resolution, which was passed on a 410-8 vote, also condemns enemies of the Jewish state.” The vote was regarded as a success for the lobbying attempts by the infamous AIPAC. – read it and weep for our so-called democracy.http://washingtontimes.com/national/20060720-105124-4182r.htm)
[4] On October 3, 2001, I.A.P. News reported that according to Israel Radio (in Hebrew) Kol Yisrael an acrimonious argument erupted during the Israeli cabinet weekly session last week between Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and his foreign Minister Shimon Peres. Peres warned Sharon that refusing to heed incessant American requests for a cease-fire with the Palestinians would endanger Israeli interests and "turn the US against us. "Sharon reportedly yelled at Peres, saying "don't worry about American pressure, we the Jewish people control America." (http://www.mediamonitors.net/khodr49.html)
22 comments:
I found it interesting that Amednejahd made the comparison when he, in fact, has denied the holocaust publicy several times.
Amednejahd's foolishness is not paid for by U.S. tax dollars, and is therefore not our responsibility. Nice attempt to deflect the issue, chase.
bob and joe,
thanks so much for this much-needed expression of the case. though, with joe, i feel some of bob's sentiment does reach over the top somewhat (which actually feeds right into the very cycle he is railing against), the basic comparison needs to be made.
which prompts this story from moi, which i may well have shared here before, but it so perfectly reflects bob's feelings, i feel i must share it, even if it is again. briefly....
in a class on death and dying, the prof invited a local rabbi to come in and discuss the holocaust. which he did, and i have to say, he was a gentle and thoughtful man, and quite circumspect. i instantly liked him.
but toward the end of the class, when he asked for questions, i could not contain myself.
after prefacing my question with the requisite caveats of understanding the horror of the nazi oppression and genocide (which bob has also duly noted here, and which i hasten to point out matches precisely what ann coulter is trying to say about the jersey girls, but fails so miserably because hey, those women have never committed crimes against humanity), i asked him,
"are there any jews, here or in israel, or even perhaps in positions of policy-making, who have recognized that their treatment of the palestinians threatens to match precisely what they suffered under the nazis in germany?"
the rabbi was stunned. and speechless. but to his credit, only for a moment. he recovered quickly enough to save face and admit that he never heard anyone speak these thoughts, but obviously one would not, even if they were considered by anyone.
i didn't ask why not; i figured i'd done enough damage by then, but - again - to his credit, as the class was breaking up, he stopped me and asked me to talk with him, and he did seem genuinely ashamed by the comparison and his failure to see it, although i could see how rapidly his mind was turning toward the construction of a justification.
(and as an aside here, bob is absolutely correct that this is the very same repetition of perpetration of abuse we see in children; their whole lives are spent in a despereate fight against becoming the monsters who tortured them, and it is an uphill battle when the abuse occurs in the very young, because this is the reality they learn and model. but this psychology in the middle east has another component that is also tribal and, well, biblical.)
what is fascinating to me about the story i just shared is that it took place in 1981-82.
a decade later, i had a conversation with a jewish prof at harvard - highly acclaimed - with whom i was doing research, and i brought up this story. he was touchingly impressed, and emphasized to me that most intellectuals and educated jews felt the same way. he said that most of the heated rhetoric and abhorrent treatment of the palestinians came from the equivalent of rednecks there, and he was ashamed.
i wish i could count that as progress, but i am no longer in close communication with the prof, and the last time we talked, he hurriedly limited any conversation by stressing how 9/11 had rearranged his priorities. not sure just what that meant, but somehow i don't have high hopes that he maintained his circumspection in the face of muslim aggression in our own backyard.
i find it so interesting that the sentiments shift toward defensive offensiveness when the danger hits closer to home. when we fear death, or even just loss of property, the stakes instantly get high enough to cloud our truest principles. it seems to me that, in addition to all that bob had to say, the jewish devotion is more to the land they claim for themselves (based on their god's gift to them? what of palestine's god?) and less on the larger message god had for them.
if you read the old testament carefully, you'll find that the jews were constantly in battles, and more often than not israel was the aggressor, based on god's word to some king or other (sound familiar?), and it was all over land. this from the people who were for most of their earliest history wandering shepherds.
i heard an israeli pilot - one who has refused to fight in palestine, and now lebanon - this morning on democracynow say the very same thing. the jews have made the land their god, and failed to hear the deeper message this god is trying to tell them.
perhaps this is what is really meant by their being god's 'chosen' people. because they chose to emphasize their tribehood and place their land over godliness in their hearts, they have chosen to be despised for the inherent evil this brings upon them.
i wish with all my heart it were otherwise. but it is said so well in their own history:
live by the sword, die by the sword.
That's a striking graphic, Joseph, and your essay is courageous. It needed to be said, and needs to be repeated, emphatically. I have found myself so horrified and infuriated that I can barely stand to listen or read the daily news. It actually makes me want to cry, and crying seems so futile.
Until this attack on Lebanon, the Palestinian question was arguable either way; at least there was a patina of justification for what Israel was doing to those poor people. But now the wolves have thrown off their cloaks of sheep skins. No longer can there be any doubt or debate. As you have so eloquently said, it is time to dismantle the Israeli war machine.
And the American one, as well. Like the Israelis, we have proven ourselves too wanton and wilful to have such toys.
The comparison is needlessly inflammatory, and pointless on its face.
Israel is acting like an imperial power (in this case, supported by an a much larger one, the U.S.), which is as old as time. Its interest are regional dominance, control of resources, and doing the geopolitical bidding of the U.S., which "Condi" has made perfectly clear (no cease-fire, until Israel really does a job on Lebanon).
If you're on the wrong end of a bomb, a bullet or an historical injustice, you might as well call your enemy "Nazis". But it's a meaningless exercise, as is the question posed here by Joseph.
The Nazis are best remembered for the way they mechanized mass murder.
Israel is just a garden variety murderer, and behaving no worse than the U.S. If Israelis are Nazis, then so are we, and so was every colonial power in world history. And without the U.S., Israel would not be commiting these outrages. Who told the Israeli air force to stop bombing Beirut, when Condi showed up?
"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population."
-- David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.
Unfortunately, Israel has no intention of living peacefully with it's Arab neighbors, and it has never had that intention from the start.
Read about Israeli Apartheid
Sabra and Chatila was a crime against humanity
Sadly, I have to go out on a limb here today. Why? Because I awoke from a dream this morning, after having spent the weekend with my beautiful, most precious 13 month old graddaughter. And what had I dreamt? Of bombs falling on houses and schools and hospitals, on the roads and bridges where people were trying to escape the horror, and all of the children had precious Kailyn's face- I was in agony, sobbing, drenched with sweat. The Lebanese mothers and fathers and grandparent's feel the same about their beloved children as I do. Do they not have a right to live in peace as do I and my family? Do they not have the right to live free from seeing their childre pulverized? Palestinians have tried and tried to make peace, to make the bombings and invasions and massacres stop, to no avail. And it came to me this morning, to my shame, that I believe Israel has no right to exist. No, it does not, much less to "defend" itself in the mannner that it has in it's entire history from 1948. From the words of Ben-Gurion above, it is clear they never have and never will make peace, until the last of the Arab "vermin" are gone. Now, I think Israel will not have a choice but to live with war-they will have to continue to fight-will Lebanon, Syria, and Iran continue to stand idly by? Somehow, I doubt it. Of course, that will play right into the hands of Boosh, but where, in the end, will that leave Israel?
Wow, Joe, you have done some excellent writing this week. You always do, and I check your blog almost daily, but I am especially impressed this week. Thanks for telling it like it is. I referenced the obvious similiaritites between nazi and Israeli policies recently on myspace and received a hateful email reply that I will paste as it was short and didn't explain what it is exactly he was even referring to. I tend to focus solely on what I feel Americans are not being told and what I feel are important and should be front page news. In any case, with the past month of agression in Gaza and Lebanon, this is the reply I got. I;m sure this is standard fare for you, but I am small time compared to you and I thought it rather odd.
the comparation of israelian politics and nazi-crimes is just cynical and disqualifies the whole text!
well, there is a point where the left-radicals meet the right-radicals. both are pretty one-dimensional.
(never forget history(=histories))
´
you shouldn´t write about things you don´t know...
I wrote him back and asked him what it is exactly that he was judging me about. I thought he could at least point to which I article I cut and pasted that he was referring. Yet to hear back. Being he's from Germany, I can only guess being a 26 year old male that he is either an Israeli living in Germany, or one of the millions who've been indoctrinated into a never-ending Holocaust guilt trip which costs Germany billions in compensation.
anonymous(the last one),
How funny that you mentioned guilt and Germans. At the risk of being labled Ahmadinejad lover, I will direct you to an interview that was done by Der Spiegel a couple of months ago of Ahmadinejad. In that interview he questions the reporter about how long Germans are going to pay with guilt and money for the crimes of Nazis.
Sorry, I can't post the link.
"And there are persistent, impossible-to-ignore allegations that the right has corrupted the Israeli electoral process."
That would be an interesting topic to explore in greater depth in a future Cannonfire entry, Joseph.
I should make clear that the cartoon at the top of this post is not by me, but by the Brazilian illustrator Carlos Latuff.
I should also make clear that at one point I favored a two-state solution. Then it became clear that such a solution would not work if one state was a regional superpower while the other was a Bantustan.
Jews -- and Palestinians -- will simply have to make the wrenching decision to accept the other as an equal co-citizen of the same state. The idea of a "Jewish state" (or any other type of single-identity state) is inherently evil and must end. A pluralistic, secular democracy CAN work -- if America insists on nothing less.
Why is that the "realists" (i.e., the "realty based community") is so attracted to an apocalyptic view of the world, when the subject is Israel?
We have here a classic struggle for land and resources - no more, no less. I too find the notion of a state based on a racial characteristic nauseating, particularly when that state denies (as does Israel) full rights to minorities (under Israeli law, Arabs are literally second class citizens).
But Jesus - lay off, guys. Israeli policy is American policy. To associate Israeli crimes with Jews is brazen anti-Semitism. Do contributors to this blog regard the crimes of Arab states (typically against their people) as evidence of the depravity of Muslims?
Note also that Israeli politics are just as driven by extremists as American politics. Israelis don't have a democracy anymore than we do. As for Israeli public opinion - need I remind you that George Bush had an 80%+ approval rating while he was bombing innocent civilians in Afganistan? The same shit would happen here, with support for genocidal policies, if we were "under attack" - or if that's what we were sold.
The fact that Israel made a strong geopolitical alliance with Apartheid South Africa back in the 1980's or before, and the corrupt Jew Jack Abramoff is closely associated with both murderous and corrupt regimes is plenty of evidence supporting the argument that Israel's government is at core fascist, bigoted, and genocidal. I see Israel's government as a tool of Big Oil to provide a pretext for Western government interference and intervention in Middle east affairs.
I've got the answer. Cut off all
federal aid to Israel, freeze private
aid. Let's give the Israelis Wyoming
for their zionist state. We're not
using it, and they could teach our
welfare cowboys something about
competing in the global economy.
The Israelis who are willing to live
in a Palestinian state, more power to 'em. About fifteen years ago I realized that the settlers were talking about Lebensraum
even if they didn't. I thought "My
God, man, don't you know your own
history?"
Anyone who is angry about Israel's war on Lebanon should call or write their senators. Tell them also that you're fed up with the influence Israel lobbyists have on our foreign policy, and ask them to stand up for peace in the ME.
When I went to Senator Gordon Smith's website, I discovered this bizarre fact: he has a draw-down list of topics, with about twenty-five possible selections. There is no heading for IRAQ! Not even an indirect one, unless you want to choose "military spending" or "terrorism!" Haven't we been at war in Iraq for three years?? Does he just not want feedback on the subject?
Geez, I've never noticed that about Gordo's website, unirealist, but that is so typical of him and his faux-openness and respectability. God, I hate Gordo.
One basic factor of german nazi crimes and zionist crimes is that both would have been impossible without the funding of international corporations, running concerns, materially AND psychologically (propaganda-technic).
These Capitalists do NOT think in terms of religion or nation.
Their religion is the "Believe" in
interest on investment.
And their paranoia is the unity of us, the slaves.
In June 1918, a german Jewish Banker, for sure a Zionist, invited the top german "nationalist" industrialists
to form a union against the rising proletarian revolution.
That was the beginning of Hitler and "comrades".
Also one should consider - and don't think it's far-fetched-
the latest results of "biblical archeology".
Since the publication in 2001 of "The Bible Unearthed" by Israel Finkelstein and Neil Usher Silbermann, Simon & Schusters, a wider public can learn, whatit is all about the foundations of the bible, judaism, christianism and the whole holy shit.
The political class of Israel,who financed the work of the archeologists must have been aware long ago of the repercussions of these scientific results.
What seemed to be fundamentals really is quicksand.
And they know it.
This is part of a much wider Ravolution, which is unfolding in plain sight :
Its Religion versus Science.
Its come to a balance now.
With science rising, just because of the confusion that religion creates.
They are using scientifical means -of destruction- in order to save, stabilise religios believe in order to stay at their scienifically not any more justifiable power.
Its the end of the old and the beginning of the new.
And they know it.
Its because of that they play
"burned earth"
They know they have nothing to loose.
They know, they are over.
Since 1917.
-
-now that you read it, you may delete it.
Let me add a few words about the other country frequently compared to Israel these days -- South Africa. I lived in South Africa for almost two years in the late 1980s and spent a lot of time doing research in the "bantustaans" or homelands. One thing I can say unequivocally and without exaggeration is that nothing the South African government did in the homelands can begin to compare to what Israel is doing in the West Bank and Gaza. Black South Africans could freely drive in and out of the homelands (although they could not take up residence in the city without a pass endorsement), South Africa never bombed or straffed towns and villages in the homelands, and South Africa never cut off deliveries of food and other vital goods to the homelands. And in the 1980s, we thought that South African conditions were about as bad as it could get.
Hamden from DU
This thread reveals a level of hypocrisy and moral self-congratulation to be expected on the right, but disheatening when it turns up in people who claim humanist values.
If Israel is commiting Nazi crimes, then so is the U.S. -- by several orders of magnitude, not least because Israel is a U.S. proxy. No need to point out, I hope, that American planes are bombing Iraqi and Afghan civilians at this very moment.
My questions to the Americans on this thread who condemn Israel as a Nazi state, are: are you willing to make the U.S.-Nazi comparison openly; do you accept responsibility for the crimes of your own state?; do you (for example) withhold your taxes?; are you engaged in civil disobediance?; have you dedicated your lives to political resistence?; do you refuse to support political candidates who decline to see that America is a Nazi state; or are you just another good Nazi, following orders?
n a word, do you do anything but sit on your ass and condemn third parties anonymously on blogs like this one, because it makes you feel virtuous -- or because, like many here, you appear to be unadmitted anti-Semites (again, like so many on the right)?
What a contemptible, pathetic display.... Save the high dudgeon for your own American crimes, about which you can (at least in theory) do something. Reform your own state, and you may find Israel no longer poses a threat to anyone.
I'm going to allow anon 5:37's comment to stand, but only as an example of the sort of loopiness that immediately crops up whenever we discuss these areas.
"In June 1918, a german Jewish Banker, for sure a Zionist, invited the top german "nationalist" industrialists to form a union against the rising proletarian revolution. That was the beginning of Hitler and "comrades"."
Now, back before I lost my personal library (don't ask how THAT happened), I had several shelves filled with volumes about Hitler and the oroigns of Nazism. In my opinion, the most readable account of "the early days" remains Hanser's "Putsch," which mentions nothing about a Jewish banker in 1918. Neither does Konrad Heiden, as I recall. This Jewish banker certainly rates no mention in the Pooles' "Who Financed Hitler" -- a book I still own, and have directly to hand.
Hitler did not decide to enter politics until 1919. The German Workers Party kept its money in a tin cup at that time. The party received small amounts from the Thule society and from a small circle of middle-class businessmen. Eventually, the big bucks...or big Marks? -- came from the German Navy and, especially, from Henry Ford.
I'm just waiting to hear from someone who wants to call Ford Jewish. Now THAT would be funny.
(By the way, most anti-Semites claim, falsely, that a mythical Jewish banking conspiracy caused the 1918 revolt. Now we are being told that Jews were behind the counter-revolution!)
The point is this: I know full well that this is indeed an incindiary topic. The very words "Jew" and "Nazi" cause some people to reach for their wildest conspiracy theories.
I still think that we can draw a valid historical comparison between Israeli and Nazi usage of the "collective punishment" tactic -- but let's stick to REAL history, not imaginary stuff.
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