Monday, August 18, 2008
The quality of hate
For a while now, I've posited that the Obots are not in it to win it. If they were serious about defeating McCain, they'd stop insulting and start wooing the PUMAs. (Actually, the bots seem to think that insulting is wooing. This is true only in the #femhumiliationsex IRC channel.)
The 2008 election is, in fact, all about the direction of the Democratic party: One faction wants the Clintons destroyed politically, while the other wants Obama destroyed politically. McCain? Nobody cares about him. He's not the issue.
To prove the point, consider the "quality of hate" on display at the big progblogs. We know how the lefties treated -- and continue to treat -- Hillary and Bill Clinton: Lies, smears, incessant insults, eliminationist rhetoric, and outright death threats. In short, progs treated us to the most hate-fueled, hysterical, poisonous, vile, disgusting and indefensible campaign in American history.
Can the bots muster up the same murderous rage toward John McCain?
They're trying. I must give them credit for trying. Some of them obviously want to seem enraged and bile-filled. But you can tell that their heart just ain't in it, that the bots make the effort simply to keep up appearances. Take a big whiff, and you can't help noticing that those old toxic vapors no longer scent the air.
Until someone mentions Hillary or Bill, that is. Those names will bring back the poison.
Consider the following examples, which come from a recent DU thread on the overblown "cone of silence" business that you've no doubt already read about. (Incidentally, there is no proof that McCain cheated, although there is widespread agreement that he got the better of Slowbama.) Here's how the DUpes castigated the Republican nominee:
Now, I'm not saying that the above-quoted commentary lacks hate. We have some nice vitriol on display here, no doubt about it. Some of it transgresses what used to be considered, in less barbaric times, the limits of civilized political discourse. But the rage on display here has a hollow, forced quality.
As a reminder, let's review some of the things said about Hillary, as collected in this previous post.
"How about "Arkansas Uber Alles"? Seig Heil to Mrs Clinton!"
"Hillary's gonna lose you feminazi cunts."
"Hillary is a liar and a cunt"
"They're all crazy cunts,taze them all!!!!!!"
"it is really the Bush/Clinton crime family." "Bush Clinton crime family must be eradicated."
"The Clinton death list" "Poll question: Did Hillary Clinton murder Benzir Bhutto as some rival campaigns suggest?"
"i think she needs to come clean on where the bodies are"
"The Clintons shoud have been arrested long ago; Travelgate, Whitewater, Vince Foster's supposed suicide"
"HILLARY WANTS BARACK OBAMA DEAD"
"Her strategy is CLEARLY to try to amplify racial tensions so she can get more votes. Hillary = Palpatine."
"I'VE HAD IT WITH HER DOG WHISTLE RACISM..."
"Mr. and Mrs. Clinton went fishing in the waters of the KKK and the Aryan nation's pool of most eligibles."
Note the differences. The anti-Clinton remarks betray a genuine psychosis which does not underlie the anti-McCain remarks. If real emotion were present, the McCain attackers would use ALL CAPS, as they often do when the topic turns Clintonian. Although McCain is often compared to Bush, the progs never bring up Hitler. While many have charged Team McCain with racism, such accusations do not come couched in the strident terms reserved for Hillary and Bill Clinton. The Republican nominee receives no death threats. Neither do we see any insinuation that McCain wants to assassinate our beloved Lightbringer. No calls for McCain's arrest. No references to a McCain/Bush crime family.
Heck, we don't even have a McCain Mysterious Death List! McCain must be some kind of wimp if he doesn't rate a Mysterious Death List.
I could go on, but the bottom line should already be clear enough. In progressive circles, anti-McCain hate compares to anti-Clinton hate the way Taco Bell's medium salsa compares to Dave's Insanity Sauce. Or, to switch metaphors, McCain-bashers seem nutty in a Cesar-Romero-as-the-Joker kind of way, while Hillary-bashers are much more Heath Ledger-ish.
Why is that?
The 2008 election is, in fact, all about the direction of the Democratic party: One faction wants the Clintons destroyed politically, while the other wants Obama destroyed politically. McCain? Nobody cares about him. He's not the issue.
To prove the point, consider the "quality of hate" on display at the big progblogs. We know how the lefties treated -- and continue to treat -- Hillary and Bill Clinton: Lies, smears, incessant insults, eliminationist rhetoric, and outright death threats. In short, progs treated us to the most hate-fueled, hysterical, poisonous, vile, disgusting and indefensible campaign in American history.
Can the bots muster up the same murderous rage toward John McCain?
They're trying. I must give them credit for trying. Some of them obviously want to seem enraged and bile-filled. But you can tell that their heart just ain't in it, that the bots make the effort simply to keep up appearances. Take a big whiff, and you can't help noticing that those old toxic vapors no longer scent the air.
Until someone mentions Hillary or Bill, that is. Those names will bring back the poison.
Consider the following examples, which come from a recent DU thread on the overblown "cone of silence" business that you've no doubt already read about. (Incidentally, there is no proof that McCain cheated, although there is widespread agreement that he got the better of Slowbama.) Here's how the DUpes castigated the Republican nominee:
So we know he lied once. Maybe McCain had the questions long before the event
They know if it were fair they'd lose everytime so they cheat everytime
Apparently, Johnnie's getting a bit caught up in his web of lies.
Didn't that "Former Prisoner of War" cheat on his first wife...many times...?
A noun, a verb, then P.O.W.Actually, that last one is pretty clever.
And the beatings and torture effected his ability to reason, thus making his judgment suspect.Okay, that comment is genuinely mean-spirited. Remember when all Democrats agreed that Bush was a slime for having his secret supporters spread that very meme?
I prefer to call him "Crash" McCain, in honor of all the planes he trashed in the service.
The insinuation that because John McCain was a prisoner of war (albeit allegedly because of his own carelessness) that he is incapable of lying through his freakin teeth is outrageous. The man lies...err, misspeaks, at almost every turn!!And so on. You get the flavor of the dialogue. The results given here are representative, not cherry-picked. (Granted, I read only the first half of the thread.)
Now, I'm not saying that the above-quoted commentary lacks hate. We have some nice vitriol on display here, no doubt about it. Some of it transgresses what used to be considered, in less barbaric times, the limits of civilized political discourse. But the rage on display here has a hollow, forced quality.
As a reminder, let's review some of the things said about Hillary, as collected in this previous post.
"How about "Arkansas Uber Alles"? Seig Heil to Mrs Clinton!"
"Hillary's gonna lose you feminazi cunts."
"Hillary is a liar and a cunt"
"They're all crazy cunts,taze them all!!!!!!"
"it is really the Bush/Clinton crime family." "Bush Clinton crime family must be eradicated."
"The Clinton death list" "Poll question: Did Hillary Clinton murder Benzir Bhutto as some rival campaigns suggest?"
"i think she needs to come clean on where the bodies are"
"The Clintons shoud have been arrested long ago; Travelgate, Whitewater, Vince Foster's supposed suicide"
"HILLARY WANTS BARACK OBAMA DEAD"
"Her strategy is CLEARLY to try to amplify racial tensions so she can get more votes. Hillary = Palpatine."
"I'VE HAD IT WITH HER DOG WHISTLE RACISM..."
"Mr. and Mrs. Clinton went fishing in the waters of the KKK and the Aryan nation's pool of most eligibles."
Note the differences. The anti-Clinton remarks betray a genuine psychosis which does not underlie the anti-McCain remarks. If real emotion were present, the McCain attackers would use ALL CAPS, as they often do when the topic turns Clintonian. Although McCain is often compared to Bush, the progs never bring up Hitler. While many have charged Team McCain with racism, such accusations do not come couched in the strident terms reserved for Hillary and Bill Clinton. The Republican nominee receives no death threats. Neither do we see any insinuation that McCain wants to assassinate our beloved Lightbringer. No calls for McCain's arrest. No references to a McCain/Bush crime family.
Heck, we don't even have a McCain Mysterious Death List! McCain must be some kind of wimp if he doesn't rate a Mysterious Death List.
I could go on, but the bottom line should already be clear enough. In progressive circles, anti-McCain hate compares to anti-Clinton hate the way Taco Bell's medium salsa compares to Dave's Insanity Sauce. Or, to switch metaphors, McCain-bashers seem nutty in a Cesar-Romero-as-the-Joker kind of way, while Hillary-bashers are much more Heath Ledger-ish.
Why is that?
"Can the bots muster up the same murderous rage toward John McCain?"
Can the Chosen candidate muster up some balls to stop outsourcing, home foreclosures and dwindling access to healthcare by offering real solutions like Nader?
Thought not, especially since his base and McCain's are both down with more of the same. Carry on.
Can the Chosen candidate muster up some balls to stop outsourcing, home foreclosures and dwindling access to healthcare by offering real solutions like Nader?
Thought not, especially since his base and McCain's are both down with more of the same. Carry on.
It's hard for some of these people to bash McCain after thinking he would be a good choice for Kerry's VP pick.
I'm so done with the Democratic Party. After reading all about Rev. Leah Daughtry today it obvious the Democrats, like the Republicans, are being hijacked by the religious.
Mountain Sage
I'm so done with the Democratic Party. After reading all about Rev. Leah Daughtry today it obvious the Democrats, like the Republicans, are being hijacked by the religious.
Mountain Sage
Oh look, Joseph! You caught one. He's kinda small though. Best to just throw him back, along with his lies.
Great post. Excellent juxtaposition. It all really stands out in context, doesn't it?
Great post. Excellent juxtaposition. It all really stands out in context, doesn't it?
Please give it up with the "PUMAs are Republicans" garbage. I was a Democrat until May 31, when I became Independent. I could care less who else hates Obama and why. There are worse things to be than a Republican, like, an Obama supporter. Besides, who has enjoyed the support of Republicans For Obama since 2006, and who ran a Democrat for a Day campaign in the primaries?
And maybe you're unaware that Obuhbuh's girlfriend, Donna Brazile, has been Karl Rove's dinner buddy since 2000. Stop throwing Republican stones before you break all the windows in your own glass house.
And maybe you're unaware that Obuhbuh's girlfriend, Donna Brazile, has been Karl Rove's dinner buddy since 2000. Stop throwing Republican stones before you break all the windows in your own glass house.
"Time has been transformed, and we have changed; it has advanced and set us in motion; it has unveiled its face, inspiring us with bewilderment and exhilaration."
Kahlil Gibran
GO PUMA!
All Americans should be bewildered at the audacity of the "movement" of the DNC... some transformation we have here, it seems more like an unveiling.
Kahlil Gibran
GO PUMA!
All Americans should be bewildered at the audacity of the "movement" of the DNC... some transformation we have here, it seems more like an unveiling.
Great post as usual.
I think some Republicans(white shoe country club types) were embarassed when their party's marraige to the fundies was made glaringly obvious during the Terry Schiavo episode. The late night House session, the vote, the sanctity of whatever speeches, Bush flying back from Texas for it. His polls started to go down. Maybe they felt a tinge of humanity over Katrina too. I think they became nominal Democrats. It's fashionable! Whenyou worship at the church of the O you can express your identity as a nonracist with no actual investment of time or deeds. No liberal values but they kept the CDSinflamed and intact. Plus there's a herd mentality. And a 52million dollar budget can buy an awful lot of "advertising"
I think some Republicans(white shoe country club types) were embarassed when their party's marraige to the fundies was made glaringly obvious during the Terry Schiavo episode. The late night House session, the vote, the sanctity of whatever speeches, Bush flying back from Texas for it. His polls started to go down. Maybe they felt a tinge of humanity over Katrina too. I think they became nominal Democrats. It's fashionable! Whenyou worship at the church of the O you can express your identity as a nonracist with no actual investment of time or deeds. No liberal values but they kept the CDSinflamed and intact. Plus there's a herd mentality. And a 52million dollar budget can buy an awful lot of "advertising"
So the proggies attack Clinton with more vitriol than they attack McCain? True. But aren't you the pot calling the kettle black? I haven't seen many articles here attacking McCain!
You even wrote, " As long-time readers know, I don't like John McCain and have never agreed with most Republican principles.
That's not your tone when you talk about Obama. You've never said that you don't like Obama and don't agree with most Obama supporters' principles.
Agreed the Obots are not in it to win it. The likeliest next president is McCain. The 'left' is a pseudo-left. In this case, it's a 'left' manufactured to keep people positive about an electoral system which has given them 8 years of the most hated president in most people's memory. It diverts their attention from stuff like how Michael Bloomberg is mayor of New York - the same sort of development (open and contemptuous ownership of public authorities by private business interests) that has happened in places like Russia, Italy, Uzbekistan, etc. (Of course, this has always been clear for those who scratch beneath the surface and don't think in terms of hierarchically 'communicated' stock phrases).
There hasn't been a charismatic president for a very long time.
You even wrote, " As long-time readers know, I don't like John McCain and have never agreed with most Republican principles.
That's not your tone when you talk about Obama. You've never said that you don't like Obama and don't agree with most Obama supporters' principles.
Agreed the Obots are not in it to win it. The likeliest next president is McCain. The 'left' is a pseudo-left. In this case, it's a 'left' manufactured to keep people positive about an electoral system which has given them 8 years of the most hated president in most people's memory. It diverts their attention from stuff like how Michael Bloomberg is mayor of New York - the same sort of development (open and contemptuous ownership of public authorities by private business interests) that has happened in places like Russia, Italy, Uzbekistan, etc. (Of course, this has always been clear for those who scratch beneath the surface and don't think in terms of hierarchically 'communicated' stock phrases).
There hasn't been a charismatic president for a very long time.
"I haven't seen many articles here attacking McCain!"
Because I want McCain to win. Not because I like the guy, but because he is (or soon will be) the only person standing between Barack Obama and the White House.
I've made that stance very clear on a number of occasions, so don't act surprised by it.
Because I want McCain to win. Not because I like the guy, but because he is (or soon will be) the only person standing between Barack Obama and the White House.
I've made that stance very clear on a number of occasions, so don't act surprised by it.
I have long noted that progressives hate Democrats with a passion. They spend all their time attacking Democrats--as they are now--while the Republicans go unscathed.
Yes and the author of this site is a Democrat who wants the Republican candidate to win. As if it matters anyway, which particular sleazeball wins this particular front-of-stage office!!
So the Obot campaign is about helping the Republican candidate...and Joseph's response is to...wish for a Republican victory. What happened to the opposition to this ultra-vile American government? Don't look among the election-heads!
In the past, Joseph has criticised Moulitsas for saying vote Republican, and also (if I am not mistaken) he has said that he'd promise to back Obama if only all the Obots promised to support Clinton if she won the nomination. (If I am wrong about this, I will stand corrected).
Meanwhile, the mug-level supporters of Obama (not the guys at the top) do want the Democrat candidate to win. Truth is, most of them would now be supporting Clinton, were she in Obama's current position.
So long as a person supports any of the candidates, even Nader, their position on all this election bullsh*t fails to stand up! Turn off the TV, don't vote, and employ other methods of struggle - real methods.
A pox on all the pols' houses. A pox on all this Hollywood personality sh*t called bourgeois electoral politics.
b
So the Obot campaign is about helping the Republican candidate...and Joseph's response is to...wish for a Republican victory. What happened to the opposition to this ultra-vile American government? Don't look among the election-heads!
In the past, Joseph has criticised Moulitsas for saying vote Republican, and also (if I am not mistaken) he has said that he'd promise to back Obama if only all the Obots promised to support Clinton if she won the nomination. (If I am wrong about this, I will stand corrected).
Meanwhile, the mug-level supporters of Obama (not the guys at the top) do want the Democrat candidate to win. Truth is, most of them would now be supporting Clinton, were she in Obama's current position.
So long as a person supports any of the candidates, even Nader, their position on all this election bullsh*t fails to stand up! Turn off the TV, don't vote, and employ other methods of struggle - real methods.
A pox on all the pols' houses. A pox on all this Hollywood personality sh*t called bourgeois electoral politics.
b
Yep.
See: "Civil war looming within the Democratic party?" on Left Blog -
http://leftsolutions.wordpress.com/
J.
See: "Civil war looming within the Democratic party?" on Left Blog -
http://leftsolutions.wordpress.com/
J.
Joseph, How can you say you are a Democrat and then want McCain to win? What is so alluring about electing 8 more years of hell into the WH, whether we get Obama or McCain?
As much as you do a great job with sticking it to O in all the well-researched, right places, why do it for McDickhead? At this point, why do you not support candidates like McKinney or Nader who are the only ones taking up FDR style Deocratic issues? McCain an Obama are runnning to protect tightening corporate interests.
As much as you do a great job with sticking it to O in all the well-researched, right places, why do it for McDickhead? At this point, why do you not support candidates like McKinney or Nader who are the only ones taking up FDR style Deocratic issues? McCain an Obama are runnning to protect tightening corporate interests.
winslowboy, why are you assuming that McCain will win two terms? As for voting third party, I personally won't do it because I want my vote to count. Until our system of tallying elections is reformed so that the simple majority gives way to instant run-off voting or some other system where the true will of the people is taken into consideration during elections, third parties will remain nothing more than spoilers.
OK you're consistent about it. But being a Democrat who wants McCain to win (in order to stop Obama), while at the same time criticising the Obots for being 'Democrats' who are relatively soft on McCain (because they reserve their hatred for the Clintons) - and who, even worse, are probably seeking to help him - is still being a pot who calls the kettle black! Talk about having your cake and eating it...
This is the sort of mess that honest left-wing people can get themselves into, in these screwed-up times.
b
This is the sort of mess that honest left-wing people can get themselves into, in these screwed-up times.
b
"Talk about having your cake and eating it..."
No, it's a simple matter of being forced into a fight one would have preferred to avoid. I very much wanted 2008 to be about a united Democratic party defeating the Republicans. But the Obots insisted on targeting fellow Democrats. Those under fire had a choice: Either return fire or meekly submit to an unprovoked attack.
Well...masochism ain't my thing.
If you fight back, are you not, in a sense, being just as bad as the bullies? Yes, of course. That's inevitable.
(As you know, one of my favorite film lines comes from "It Happened Here": "The appalling thing about fascism is that it forces you to adopt fascist means to combat it.")
But we PUMAs didn't choose this battle.
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No, it's a simple matter of being forced into a fight one would have preferred to avoid. I very much wanted 2008 to be about a united Democratic party defeating the Republicans. But the Obots insisted on targeting fellow Democrats. Those under fire had a choice: Either return fire or meekly submit to an unprovoked attack.
Well...masochism ain't my thing.
If you fight back, are you not, in a sense, being just as bad as the bullies? Yes, of course. That's inevitable.
(As you know, one of my favorite film lines comes from "It Happened Here": "The appalling thing about fascism is that it forces you to adopt fascist means to combat it.")
But we PUMAs didn't choose this battle.
