Why do I find that suspicious? Coming from a "Pakistani source" I would be inclined to believe that there would be a motive for spreading this story. Wouldn't you agree Joe? As we have been told over and over again, there are elements within the ISI that are BFF's with the " Cave dwelling, Red Bearded,Dentally challenged, woman hating Virgin seekers Club for men" and would like nothing more than to see the USA with a little "Doo-Doo" on it's face.There's something to this point of view, of course. Here is my problem:
All the Americans involved in the raid could be charged with treason if they revealed anything about the incident which goes against the wishes of the White House. Thus, any objective information about these events will have to come from others.
How can we trust the official White House line when the story has changed fundamentally? At first, we were told that Osama wielded a gun and used a woman as a human shield. Now we hear that he was unarmed and that he did not use a human shield.
Nevertheless, it is the case that we may hardly consider the other witnesses in that compound "objective." They are family members of Osama Bin Laden. Making matters worse, what they have to say (so far) comes filtered through the Pakistanis.
That said, I'm inclined to find the word of Safia credible -- if she really did say the words attributed to her. No matter who her father might have been, she's just a twelve-year-old girl. A twelve year old is perfectly capable of lying, of course -- but would a twelve year old be able to lie convincingly, under harsh interrogation lasting days?
That said, we really don't know if the words attributed to her are accurate. But consider this: Eventually -- and fairly soon -- Safia will be released. She will be free to give interviews to anyone (if her custodians permit). The Pakistan government will emerge with a blackened eye if she says that the Pakistanis put false words in her mouth.
As for Pakistan's possible animus toward the U.S. -- well, here is where the matter becomes extremely confusing. The Pakistanis seem very pissed off by some of the things being said in America right now, especially by Panetta's impolitic remarks. In earlier posts, we've made the case for the proposition that Pakistan knew about and participated in the raid. It must rankle the Pakistanis to be called incompetent by the very people they secretly helped.
There are hints that Pakistan also knew about Bin Laden's location. If so, the Americans probably also knew. I doubt that the ISI has many secrets that the NSA cannot penetrate.
The connection between the ISI and Al Qaeda primarily involved drugs. That's the factor which everyone keeps forgetting about. Yet it is key.
It should also not be forgotten that the ISI has strong links to the CIA. America was perhaps the primary market for Afghanistan's poppy product, and thus it was necessary for the Bin Laden network to maintain ties with powerful people in this country.
I haven't yet formulated a proper theory about all of this. But it seems to me that the answer to the mysteries surrounding the life and death of Osama Bin Laden may revolve around the drug connection.
12 comments:
Cannonfire,
My name is Barbara O’Brien and I am a political blogger. Just had a question about your blog and couldn’t find an email—please get back to me as soon as you can (barbaraobrien(at)maacenter.org)
Thanks,
Barbara
Don't know if you've seen it already, but there are stories about (and picture of) the WH Situation Room watching the raid via live TV feed (found via Xymphora, who - so far - hasn't hypothesized Israel directly running the op with the US acting as a passive TV viewer).
Link here:
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/306268
With links to other reputable sources provided therein.
I haven't followed the details & conflicting stories as closely as some, but it seems to me that there is way too much room for conspiracy theories here - as if by design. Basic things like the body being dumped at sea look like an invitation.
While the topic has become quite focused, I don't think the subtext of your posts has shifted very much since "America the Mad"
Addendum to my previous comment:
If the opportunities for conspiracy theorizing are intentional, we should ask: What's the misdirection? What's intended for conspiracy theory co-option? Where's the CD equivalent?
Perhaps via the lies we could surmise the truth - or it's closest approximation.
I truly believe that the Pakistanis and the powers that be here in these United States knew where Bin Laden was all along. He was good for business so to speak. So long as he was supposedly sneaking about caves, he was useful.
Millions upon millions have been spent justifying this so-called "greatest manhunt in human history."
I believe he outlived his usefulness. I believe he was offered up as a "Good will gesture" by the Pakistanis or he was given up for some of those "Billions" we keep sending there. Either way, there is so much to this story that we will never know.
Also... I believe they, the Pakistanis, WERE involved in this "Midnight Hit!" This could not have gone down without their support...Area residents were "Advised" not to come out "BEFORE the raid began:
...."Residents in the area confirmed that the Pakistan army appeared to have at least some knowledge of the operation well before it began. Several residents said that two hours before the United States launched its attack, Pakistani army personnel ordered them to switch off their lights inside and outside their homes and remain indoors until further notice.
“The army personnel cordoned off the entire area long before we heard the sounds of helicopters hovering over the area,” said Zulfikar Ahmed, who lives in the Abbottabad neighborhood of Bilal Town, where bin Laden’s compound is located. Locals interviewed by the BBC and several other local and international media outlets made similar statements."
You can read the article here..
http://www.businessinsider.com/pakistan-military-played-key-role-in-bin-laden-raid-2011-5.
Funny how the Obama administration failed to divulge this part of the story. As you have said...I think the Administration tried to shield the Pakistanis from home anger but in doing so did they actually make things worse by punking the Pakistanis? Possibly but we will never know why they chose to go that route. Although we can speculate can't we?
As for Bin Laden's daughter...it will be interesting to hear what she has to say once she is out of the ISI's hands. Although he had blood on his hands, he was still HER daddy. So it will be interesting to get "her" side of what happened as she saw it in real time.
Either way, I think the truth is going to get muddled up by emotions on Bin Laden's family's part and the facts as we are being led to believe.
Here's something I found on GEO TV ( Pakistani television)....
Internal rift led to Osama killing: Saudi paper
RIYADH: US troops were led to Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden by his own deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri, because of a simmering internal power struggle, a Saudi newspaper reported on Thursday.
Al-Watan newspaper, quoting an unnamed "regional source," said the top two Al-Qaeda men had differences and that a courier who led US forces to bin Laden was working for Zawahiri.
The courier was a Pakistan national and not a Kuwaiti as the US suspected, Al-Watan said. The man knew he was being followed by the US military but disguised the fact.
"The Egyptian faction of Al-Qaeda is defacto running the organisation now and since he was taken ill in 2004 they have been trying to take full control,"
according to the paper.
It said Zawahiri's faction had persuaded bin Laden to leave tribal areas along the Afghan-Pakistan border and take shelter instead in Abbottabad near Islamabad where he was finally killed by US commandos on Monday.
With the return of an Egyptian figure in Al-Qaeda, Saif al-Adel, last autumn from Iran, the Egyptian faction had hatched a plan to dispose of Saudi-born bin Laden, according to Al-Watan. (AFP)
The story is getting interesting isn't it Joe?
btw.. Here's the link where I found this tid bit...
http://geo.tv/5-5-2011/81089.htm
Let the conspiracy theories begin!!!!
Found this on the Mirror's website.....
"SHADOWY men ordered Osama bin Laden’s neighbours to stay indoors minutes before the raid.
Residents believe the Pashtun-speaking visitors were CIA agents, recruited from Pakistan, who wanted to ensure no civilians were hurt.
Ali Bokhari, a Lincolnshire A&E doctor, originally from Abbottabad, said friends were visited in the night, adding: “Somebody came an hour before the operation started.
They knocked on the door and said ‘there is going to be an operation against a drug dealer – stay inside as there is a chance of a gunfight’.”
Dr Bokhari, 34, said bin Laden’s home had also attracted many “property investors” ahead of the raid who were “very inquisitive”.
--I'm sure you've read this already joe and I don't know if The Mirror can be taken seriously but it is worth investigating. wouldn't you agree?
The internal dispute leading to bin Laden being kacked is more plausible than the fairy tales about enhanced interrogation.
Same with the Pakistani government, a faction helped us with the hope of gaining power ... or money while the other side shielded bin Laden for the same reasons.
What is so hard to figure about that?
I know, conspiracies sell advertising.
A few thoughts about the Black Hawk crash. The pilot could have fouled a part of the fuselage on the barbed wire topping the compound wall. If the disk was tipped far enough off horizontal the craft would have lost a significant amount of lift and went down since there was no room to recover. The "gun fire" that neighbors heard could have been the blades hitting the wall or some other structure.
Which leads us to the shooting, one craft is down with the crew and some of the Seals injured or worse. The locals may or may not be friendly. If some were helping on the QT it's possible the window of safety was closing and the bad guys were on the way. Last thing you need in a crowded aircraft is some nut job thrashing around while you try to secure him. Like I said, you don't take a rabid dog to the vet.
Cannon - The body was dumped (probably not at sea) and no photos because forensics experts would immediately be able to tell that he had been shot by 7.62 mm rounds and not say .223 or similar. This would indicate Pakistani shooters not USA.
My guess Osama killed at least a day before. Whatever faction offed him - probably merely anti-fundamentalist, certainly not pro-USA - then notified USA so they could get the body, take credit and not, for example, carpet bomb Pakistan.
Likely an enormous power struggle going on in Pakistan now. Would not be surprised to see coup, purge, civil war, whatever in days or weeks ahead. Hours?
Anon -- you have inside info for that (the stuff about the bullets) or is this surmise?
As I keep saying: I don't mind surmise, but let's label it.
I don't know if The Washington Post can be taken seriously but
->
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/cia-spied-on-bin-laden-from-safe-house/2011/05/05/AFXbG31F_print.html
One of the questions I posted here before was: what are al-Qaeda saying?
They've now issued a statement, reported here. (This is assuming they are a real organisation of course!) Anyway the statement says that Osama Bin Laden recorded an audio statement a week before he was killed, and they'll release it soon.
I wonder what it will say.
There has got to be a "why now?" angle to this, because the US must have known where he was for years.
You know, I thought Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was the mastermind of 9/11? Wasn't that what we were being told not very long ago, after he was waterboarded 183 times? Now it's back to Osamma, whose been declared dead 9 times (including this recent one). Sorry, I'm just not buying this anymore with all the inconsistencies and changing stories. I think Joseph is correct though, that this was a drug related raid, and that there really was a raid. I just don't think Osamma was there, I think he died long ago. I don't, of course, know this for a fact, but there is certainly evidence that could lead one to that conclusion.
On the other hand, perhaps the impression of him being dead long ago was intended, to protect him? Truth is, we'll never know for certain. That, I suspect, was the intention all along. There are so many conflicting stories, that most people will just default to the "official" narrative (as inconsistent as that has been). It has been proven that most people defer to authority, even when they feel something is not right.
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