And how ironic is it that the guy who made "Capitalism:A Love Story" pimped HARD for Obama in '08?In follow-up missives, my correspondent mentioned others who should offer mea culpas: Randi Rhodes, Donna Brazile and Howard Dean.
Don't know if this is Michael Moore's apology (or is it mea culpa?) for doing that (I'm going to see his film regardless) but Joseph if you're truly going to start a list of "Supposedly Liberal/Progressive Celebrities With CDS Who Owe America An Apology For Believing The Hype About Obama" (or something like that) then you SHOULD start with:
1. Michael Moore - STILL can't believe he fell for those ridiculous lies about Hillary back in '08 and made NO attempts to actually do research on & disprove them.
2. Keith Olbermann - I know I know he's basically a corporate tool (mainly thanks to debunking by Bob Somerby at The Daily Howler) so why bother with him anyway? I thinks it's because mainly he's still seen as one of the very few fair minded liberal/progressive guys in the MSM (even if that image is false?) Still he did pimp hard for Obama back in '08 and I feel he owes America an apology (whether Rachel Maddow does too I'm still thinking over...)
3. A lot of A-List Bloggers - I just wish people would name WHO they are on this one ya know? Other than people at DailyKos, DemocraticUnderground and Buzzflash it seems like nobody on our side is willing to call out by name other supposed A-List bloggers who blindly pimped for Obama. I could at least name Oliver Willis as another uncritical Obot blogger that I used to like but he was never called out by anybody (not even you Joe.) What's up with that? Is there a "code of silence" among bloggers on that deal?
4. Amy Goodman & Pajamas Media - This is the hardest example of Obot devotion that I have a hard time trying to convince people of. But I think Amy did pimp hard for O on her Democracy Now! show back in '08 (and if you still don't believe me please try searching for Amy on a blog called ThirdEstateSundayReview.blogspot.com) Pajamas Media I think is supposed to be a fair minded lib/prog/dem media group who went deep into the tank for O back then as well (maybe O payed their fair minds to go on vacation?)
5. Drs. Cornel West & Michael Eric Dyson - This one is real hard for me to admit as I'm African American and a fan of their literary work but both went blind for O back then too.
6. Tom Tomorrow - He NEVER 100% came out for O (and even critiqued O a few times) but maybe he could be the Poster-Dude for CDS? "Hi, my name is Sparky The Penguin and I have CDS - Clinton Derangement Syndrome" - "Hi Sparky."
7. Jon Stewart & Stephen Colbert - Both are usually WAY smarter than the MSM and do better research on politicians on their shows than the MSM does too but both fell hard for O back in '08 - there's no question about that.
8. Bill Moyers - Another VERY hard one to admit to because I've been a fan of TV & Book work for so long. But Bill didn't investigate on O like he should've and should be called out and on it too.
9. Stevie Wonder - Perhaps the hardest one for me to admit because I'm a fan of his music. Maybe I could cut him some slack because he's a musician but still his endorsement of O was a big disappointment to me.
10. Melissa Etheridge - Think she'll tour with supposed ex-gay Rev. Donnie McClurkin for an "Obama Will Bring Us Together" tour in the coming years? Think any of her gay fanbase will turn out for it?
11. TONS of Hip Hop Artists - I can send you many MP3's of Hip Hop MC's imploring the youth to vote for O simply 'cuz he's black & male - too bad NONE of them would've done tracks for Cynthia McKinney.
12. Oprah Winfrey & Some women of ABC's "The View" - Oprah was the biggest MSM celebrity endorser for Obama - no question about that. As for The View Whoopi Goldberg, Sherri Sheppard and Joy Behar should be called out - all of them should've really done a better job of informing their mainly female viewing audience about Obama. Even my Mom (who loves the show) stopped watching them (briefly) back then too.
I could also mention whoever put Obama & the title "THIS is what Feminism looks like" on that issue of Ms. Magazine but since I don't know who's in charge of that so I really have nothing to add here. And I guess we could put smart lib/prog muckraker journo Greg Palast on the list too?
Can you name anyone else...? (Incidentally, I'm inclined to take a forgiving attitude toward some of the people on this list -- especially Stevie Wonder.)
45 comments:
This is interesting because I was just going to post an idea I had to see what you thought.
I think it would be fascinating to have a day of accountability about how the various democratic bloggers behaved prior to the election-those for sanity and Hillary and those demented and for Obama.
There could be a live debate between representatives of the two side on some forum-say AAR-where both sides have to justify there behavior.
What do you think of the idea?
A "which side gets to say neener" debate? I love it.
I want to ask Larry Johnston next. I see this as dems who had their reputations trashed vs trash.
Can you suggest any other potential defamed dems? If there was some kind of debate would you participate?
I don't want the O-holes to apologize. I want them out of my party.
It sickens me, as it should sicken you, that there are people who called their fellow Democrats racists infesting the Democratic Party.
Hell, don't stop at Randi-- the whole lot of the "progressives" on radio owes an apology, from that mental midget of the morning airwaves, Stephanie Miller, to that schmuck Ed Schultz, and even Thom Hartmann was a daily lying sack of shit for all of primary season. We were barely into the spring of '08 before I permanently stopped listening to all of the above.
Joe, you're asking for something that virtually doesn't exist. No one calls a press conferecne or sends a mass mailing to "apologize" for being duped, for supporting a candidate whom they mistakenly thought was anti-war and anti-greed.
At best, some of these people will eventually say they were mistaken; more of them will say they are disappointed. But none will apologize in the public, explicit way that you ask for. That's an unrealistic and unhelpful insistence.
Millions of voters who fell for the hype still share your values and hopes, and they can be allies in the struggle ahead. Indeed, the forces of good, no matter how you define it, can't prevail without re-enlisting millions of these people. Any army whose recruitment poster calls for publicly administered self-humilation is going to be outnumbered and defeated.
I won't say "move on," because the phrase is tainted, but we've got t move forward, and fast.
Full Disclosure: I sent Joseph the list. What I also should've suggested to Joseph before he posted my list was that he put a link to his "Tomorrow rewrites yesterday" post (from 12-23-08) on my Tom Tomorrow entry. So Joe can you still do that please?
Oh and I forgot one more person for the list:Mark Crispin Miller (oops and maybe Bill Maher?)
I was thinking of adding Sen. Bill Richardson to the list but I just didn't think he was that big of a celebrity compared to Michael Moore, Keith-O, Oprah and the rest.
Also Joseph - IF Snowflake makes this live debate actually happen and she invites you to debate on it will you accept her invitation?
Snowflake - So if this live debate does happen WHO do you think will be on the Pro-Obama side (other than maybe Kos himself?) Do you really think anybody else from DailyKos or DemoUground or Buzzflash or even Oliver Willis will show up to debate you and maybe Larry Johnson? Oh and fwiw what is AAR?
Again thank you Joseph for posting the list. Chris
Let’s not forget the pretend feminists at Robin Morgan's Women's Media Center who worked relentlessly to trash all things Clinton. Oh deary me, healthcare is an issue that impacts the lives of women and children and Obamarahma is selling us all out??? I'm sure they just want to slide on by under the radar now. But the world needs to know who these people are and start connecting the dots.
IMO, Moore "pimping HARD" for Obama makes perfect sense if you stop and ask yourself "Who stands to gain?" By setting up a new "straw man" (Dems, Obama) Moore guaranteed himself a LARGER audience which in turn would guarantee him a big profit. Now, Repubs would actually consider going to one of his movies since it wasn't just "Bush bashing"... Think about it.
Michael Moore knew EXACTLY what he was doing.
Matt Taibbi, Dan Savage, Tom Hayden, Kim Gandy, Ellie Smeal, Nancy Keenan,every "feminist" blogger, every "progressive" blogger, all of Hollywood. I think any woman who didn't support Hillary in favor of The One should apologize x2 and forfeit their right to use or be addressed as Ms..
Joan
Uhm.. You guys are aware that Oliver Willis is dead, right?
Thanks for this list! Michael Moore was a huge disappointment to me, as he (almost) gleefully threw Hillary under the fake-racism bus. I used to love some of his work but since his cowardly Clinton trash-talking behavior during the primaries, he's lost a lot of my respect.
I can't think of many more to add (& agree with the majority of people already listed ), though I'd probably throw in Bill Richardson. He's always struck me as a schmoozy opportunist & perfect TeamObama kind of person.
Oh ya, *Edwards* (hypocritical Hillary back-stabber extraordinaire).
Also, another musician: Ani Difranco. I was totally shocked to see Ms. uber-feminist-lefty... trash Hillary & support Wallstreet's favorite golden boy. Wonder's never cease!
Don't forget Robert Scheer over at Truth Dig and Arriana Huffington and everyone at her blog.
After thirty years of hard political watching and reading, I quit watching all television "news" shows geared toward politics, and for a time, after the disgraceful Palin "interview" by Gibson, even quit the network news.
Big O (Oprah) had more impact than any other endorsement I think. Most disappointing? To me, I think Maher. I used to love his shows. Now I can't watch.
I don't think we'll ever get close to an apology but it is always instructive to remember who the idiots are as we move forward and try to replace all the miserable cretins infesting D.C.
I for one am not ready to apologize for voting for Obama. But ask me again in a couple of years.
Never going to get an apology from the people who most deserve to hand it over: the prog collective. Or the other group that does: CIA.
How about Taylor Marsh? She would top any list I made. And then I would go for Bill Richardson. Jon Bon Jovi. Anyone who campaigned and raised money for bambi.
"I for one am not ready to apologize for voting for Obama. But ask me again in a couple of years."
This post does not strike me as demanding apologies from every-day voters, who decided to go with the Democrats versus Republicans in the last election. I know many good-hearted Hillary supporters who had to search their souls, grit their teeth & follow Hillary's recommendation of sticking with Democrats in the general election, even though it was a very painful affair.
The apologies are demanded of (so-called) progressive & leftist big-wigs in media/political/entertainment/activist corridors of power....who not only abandoned their leftist roots, in favor of Reaganlite..
but had the audacity to throw Hillary & supporters under the bus using fake-racism propaganda, sexist crap, political intimidation, & sometimes outright physical threats to achieve their goal of installing the next chosen prince.
It is one thing for Michael Moore to support Obama, it is quite another for him to go beyond simple difference of preference & actually promote & sustain bullSh*t race-card tactics with the Clintons. He & other big-name "progressives" like Edwards, Huffington, Pelosi...etc effectively destroyed Clinton (& viciously attacked/alienated many loyal liberals) based on dirty politics.
Apologies to many people (including intrepid bloggers like Joseph C. & TC crew) are definitely due but there are no real allusions that they will be received.
gary @ 3:09
I also voted for Obama, and I don't feel the need to apologize either. I did so without much enthusiasm, felt I needed to do my part to ensure it wouldn't be close enough for the Rs to steal it again!
All of my liberated, middle aged female friends who bought into "Hillary is a bitch" and "Obama is a so dreamy-cool and my teenagers love him" crap without blinking and should have known better.
By the way, Melissa Etheridge has a great voice, but she doesn't speak for any gay people that I know. She's very earnest, but kind of a simpleton.
4. Amy Goodman & Pajamas Media - This is the hardest example of Obot devotion that I have a hard time trying to convince people of. But I think Amy did pimp hard for O on her Democracy Now! show back in '08
OH YES SHE DID. No doubt about that. I was a devoted viewer of DN back then. The Barry love light started to shine bit by bit and then went high voltage the day in March when Amy allowed some paid Obama shill to completely sandbag Gloria Steinem. It was unwatchable ever after. I still haven't gone back, I can't. Amy is too smart not to know what Obama was and is, so WTF?
If she was so for him, I have to believe , like Moore, she NEEDS a Bush 3 in the white house for her business.
Other wise the big money wanted Obama (McCain wasn't GOP enough for them )and the little cultural boats must follow...so I guess they convince themselves they just love " who they must love...got me.
The View resisted for awhile, then overnight, they became Barry heads... guess they got the memo
guys are aware that Oliver Willis is dead, right?
posted by Buddhist with an attitude : 2:03 PM
In response to Buddhist with an attitude: no Oliver Willis is very much alive & bloggin' - check the following link for proof:
http://www.oliverwillis.com
Maybe you're thinking of Steve Gilliard? Steve was a great African American Lib/Dem/Prog blogger (like Oliver Willis *was*) who died a few years ago but his friends continued on as the GroupNewsBlog:
http://www.groupnewsblog.net
I think most of the bloggers at GNB liked Obama and happily went blind for him too - maybe because they thought Steve would approve? Personally I don't think Steve would've liked Obama as he REALLY didn't like Black Conservatives like Michael Steele. Seriously I believe that if Steve were alive & healthy back in '08 and did some digging into Barack's background like most smart lib/dem/prog bloggers should've I don't think he would've supported him in ANY way.
The main reason I called out Oliver Willis on my list was because he was (and I think still is) one of THE BIGGEST online blog supporters of Bill & Hill and the Clinton era presidency. Seriously Willis's online love & support for Clinton was maybe 2nd only to that of Bartcop.
Bart was the FIRST big time supporter of Bill & Hill that I visited on the web - and yes he also had a hard time supporting Hillary in '08 and got MANY nasty e-mails from Obama supporters just like Joseph. And to see Oliver turn into an Obama-bot was another big disappointment to me. NOTE: Bartcop was still firmly in the Hillary camp in '08 but promised that if Obama got the nomination that he would support him and 'ol Bart kept his word but I still like and visit Bart way more than I do Oliver's site now.
Here's another one for the list: Roger Waters from Pink Floyd. I'm not sure he was THAT crazy about Obama but he did have a serious case of CDS for sure. Also wasn't Rosie O'Donnell another big Obama supporter too?
And finally FWIW: I don't expect to get ANY apologies from anybody on anything. In the world today it's simply not considered a cool, ladylike or gentlemanly or even human thing to do. Most people that I've talked to think that ANY apology for anything is instantly 100% insincere.
Go figure. Chris
They couldn't possibly apologize enough.
--Sophie
Don't hold yer breath waiting.
As for Obama's failures, it's because we didn't clap hard enough.
Sad to say Barbara Ehrenreich glorified Obama and wrote a screed in The Nation claiming among other things that Hillary Clinton was a rightwing religious fanatic, a member of Joshuas Army. The rest of The Nation writers were just about as reality based. Apparently a proud Nation tradition. They villified Gore in 2000. Their new ad slogan could be "from those wonderful folks who brought you George Bush and Barack Obama!
Re: Oprah. I feel bad for her. Because I think she figured it out about midway through 2008 and really regrets having staked a large portion of her reputation on a corrupt, no-talent plant. Yes, I know that doesn't excuse her keeping silent about what I believe she knows about him, but I'm willing to give her something of a pass because I don't think there's any context for her entering into a public debate about Obama's FUBARing of the nation (at least not until mainstream media has taken him to task and it will...soon). Most of her audience has no idea what's really going on, and wouldn't believe her.
Oprah hates it when people abuse her generosity, or do anything to tarnish her name. I'm pretty sure that when it hits the fan for the president, she will be first out of the box to apologize.
tqp said...
Re: Oprah. I feel bad for her. Because I think she figured it out about midway through 2008 and really regrets having staked a large portion of her reputation on a corrupt, no-talent plant.
Oprah and Obama have moved in the same Chicago circles for 20 years and it wasn't by chance. Believe me, Oprah knew all about Obama...( and if she did not , just put it down to her very poor judgment. After all, she pushed Dr. Phil on to an unsuspecting America even before Obama! )
But the upper crust, of which Oprah is a proud member, wanted Barry and wanted him very badly, exactly because Obama is a corrupt, no-talent plant...and tool. Oprah is no lamb.
Yes Diane and they suppose to be the smart people..... Heaven help us .
Taylor Marsh was very pro-Hillary throughout the primaries and only backed BHO after he was nominated. She did become very defensive about her support for him on her site and I left. But she always backed HRC prior to that.
I nominate NPR and Mara "The Liar" Liason, their Sr. Political Propagandist oops Correspondent.
I don't have the energy to stay mad at everyone in the media who supported Obama. I do remain angry at everyone who resorted to unfair smear tactics and false cries of "racism."
Eugene Robinson? Roland Martin?
Taylor Marsh is an interesting case. I was a regular on that site.
When I first went there in Jan of '08, she was such a Reagan Dem( and proud enough of it to call herself such,) that I sometimes wondered then if her blog was a stealth McCain site! She was very much " principles before party" then. Her posts at times sounded pre Puma.
What was stocking in TM's quick turn around, besides the hyper speed, was that she had lavishly trashed Obama before hand. She was not on the sidelines waiting to see who would be nominated the Dem candidate. She was in there showing up his faults and belittling him just about every post. Then, Taylor became a Super Stepford Obot without missing a beat.
Marsh's ticket to fame was, she was for Hillary and very welcoming to her supporters when most of Left Blogastan was bat shit crazy hostile to Hillary and her supporters.
Someone promised money and told her the writing on the wall ( I guess) and while TM seemed to change over night to Obama's greatest fan,there was signs for a while before hand that she would go where the greatest return for Taylor Marsh would be found. I don't blame her for that...everyone has to make a living.
However her commenter's were very pro Hillary( and the best part of the site imo) and we left her to the mercies of the paid Axlrod trolls, ( who she had allowed to attack regulars as she was turning ). And I wondered if in a ego deluded moment, Taylor had promised the Obama team she could bring her pro Hillary posters along? Posters did praise TM to the skies and even vigorously fund raised for her site. But if Taylor really thought the bulk of her posters were going to throw over Hillary for Obama, she could not have read many of the comments.
Taylor Marsh was a case where it didn't take alot $ to being her over and it seems to also to underline how total was Obama's Inc take over of the media etc. There wasn't any air left for even little fishes like Taylor to resist it.
The idea is not to apologize-it is to inject accountability into the media. People should have to justify the accusations and promises they made in the primaries. If they can't then they are admitting they are just reckless liars.
We could break it down into topic areas-the economy, civil rights, the war, the prisons, spying, trade, etc.
Also Kevin Drum, Steve Benen, Digby and the folks at Orcinus. Clinton supporters were banned from their blogs and CDS was permitted in their comments. Uncritical Obama praise was common in their posts.
How did Chris Matthews escape this list?
I don't have the energy to stay mad at everyone in the media who supported Obama
Indeed Joe, but at best, they stood around while others resorted to unfair smear tactics and false cries of "racism" and said nothing.
I'm no longer mad at them until I'm expected to trust them again...nope, no can do.
They are either easily paid off or idjits... and I just can't take them seriously again. But that is the current state of the media and its paymasters. If you want a job, you must jackboot with everyone else...okay, but again, it's impossible to take them seriously now.
Anonymous said...
How did Chris Matthews escape this list?
7:37 AM
lol!Good question. Well I guess because no one expected anything but base whoredom from Matthews in the first place and for a very long time now. This is the guy who had a bad, a spittle soaked case of Bush man crush for many years after all.
When Matthews's leg " tingled", that should have told anyone not brain dead, that Obama was the candidate of choice for the top .999 % and GE, way over McCain. CM's limbs don't tingle for anything less.
Anonymous said..7:31AM
Indeed. It wasn't just a case of 24/7 Barry love, but of viloent savaging those who would even meekly question Obama. Somehow they could juxtapose praise for the Light bringer along with the most vile attacks on non believers...and it seemed the attacks was where their hearts were.
Apparently a Light bringer also brings darkness and we are to forget their wallow in it. But forgetting , much less forgiving, is sometimes not a decision one can make. After a certain line is crossed, it's often out of one's hands in a way.
The list Joseph posted is brilliant. And I agree with everyone on it. And Amy Goodman was among the worst. 3rd Estate has that down pat, how she pimped Barack and I can't even watch her show anymore.
But in the comments, there seems to be confusion and maybe it's me.
I thought the list was about people who attacked Hillary to pimp Barack.
I loathe Taylor Marsh but she was on Hillary's side until after Puerto Rico (end of primaries). Robin Morgan wrote "Goodbye To All Of That II" which was in Jan 2008 and was about supporting Hillary.
Both Marsh and Morgan pimped for Barack hard after the Democratic Party primaries but they supported Hillary during them.
So maybe I'm misunderstanding the list but I don't see how either woman suffers from CDS.
I sent Joseph the list and came up with the title so I guess I should clarify more on some things:
1. I didn't put Tweety on my list because I never thought Chris Matthews was either a Liberal or Progressive Celebrity. Searching for Matthews at Bob Somerby's blog at The Daily Howler should convince you of the same.
2. I think I should've changed the title of the list before I sent it to Joseph. That's because I could've sworn that Moyers, Stewart, Colbert, Wonder, Etheridge, Winfrey, Goldberg, Sheppard and Behar and some others on my list all LIKED the Clintons before (& after?) Barack got (or maybe I should say stole?) the Dem nomination. SO really maybe I should've left the "CDS" part off the title?
Moore liked Bill & Hill too but he did have his probs with them (see his book Downsize This! & DVD The Big One for more details.)
3. Other people to consider for the list?:
a. Sen. Edward "Ted" Kennedy (RIP - but didn't he side with Barack later in '08 too?)
b. Bruce Springsteen & Pete Seeger - both played his inauguration right?
c. The Black Eyed Peas - their leader Will.I.Am wrote a tune for Obama too right? Or maybe I should've just mentioned them with the other Hip Hop acts at #11?
d. Whoever wrote, directed & starred in the "I Got A Crush On Obama" video - Don't know how big a celebritiy whoever wrote, directed &/or starred in that video was but they should be called out. That was one of the WORST videos to support any Dem candidate ever. I always wondered what Michelle Obama thought of it and why she put up with it.
Chris
With regards to Taylor Marsh, I agree with a lot of what Annie says, but the one thing I absolutely hold against TM is her absolute ruthless attack on Pumas and the Puma movement. She went from writing extensively about how Hillary's supporters were hardening their stance, and how there would be a backlash, to crucifying us for doing just that. I have never seen anyone change that abruptly in my life. It was Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde in real time. And she still has no use for Pumas, she considers us closet Republicans, un-patriotic, etc. I've gone over there twice since the election, and the tone has not changed at all, so I guess she still thinks we are all pariahs.
I won't forget the Obama campaign, not from being driven off DU by the "you're a racist if you say ANYTHING bad about the One" crowd to the worst intra-family political warfare. True story: My own mother stopped talking to me after being taken in by my niece into the zombie movement. Obama's own site had a page telling grandchildren to use their special powers over their grandparents to get their vote. Can't ever know for sure, but in this case I swear that is what happened. I'm just getting my relationship with my mother back as the koolaid wears off. To date, no apologies.
Mark Crispin Miller definitely belongs on the list, since he nearly bust a gut surmising that Hillary "stole" NH during the primary...then again, he's a 9/11 "scholars" dupe, so what can you expect from the likes of him?
I think Mark "Ofluffer" Karlin of Buzzflash deserves special honors, too...since he creamed his pants over meeting Brand Zero at the Chicago barber shop. He's the lowest of the belly-crawlers. Unforgivable stupidity and disloyalty to the "reality based" crowd he was supposed to serve.
posted by Anonymous : 12:50 PM
Since I didn't go back to Talyor's after I left on June 3rd, I didn't realize she trashed Puma like that. But having gone though her 180, such a thing would make sense in TM land. How better to impress her Obot overloads than by slamming the very group that made her name? I mean, what other angle has she got to hawk?
Don't forget Taylor was in the porn business. She knows how to try to please. What she really thinks about anything is anyone's guess.
It was Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde in real time.
Indeed.
Sorry about your Mom. That must of been painful.I find my obot family members now pretend all that shit never happened either. Apology? For what?Seems that kool-aid had a dose of milk of amnesia in it.
I agree Etheridge is a simpleton and really I can see where the rockers of a certain age were terrified of being thought of as "old" ( i. e. their actual age ) and so ran to Barry.
Also it's a matter of who produces their records. If the cooperate office wants Barry, they will make that known to the artists
Again, what these people actually thought about anything is any one's guess
I want an apology from ALL OF THEM. EVERY SINGLE ONE. On their knees, heads bent, tears flowing. Oprah, Amy, EVERY SINGLE FUCKING FAUX FEMINIST (and that would be all of them), Catherine MacKinnon, Katie Couric, the list goes on and on just name every single woman with access to the media EXCEPT for a few (and you know who you are Geraldine my shero).
It was our chance--a chance for women to grab the golden ring, make our dreams come true, change the world for the better, and instead of simply saying YES we bent knee and sucked cock. again.
FUCK you all. And as far as the men go big surprise that you used your power to diminish a woman who says no and means it. Hillary reminded you all that women with power are not sexy to men because powerful women can say no.
Well, I said no and I meant it. NO. Count me out as ever pledging allegiance to Democrat again. I am firmly independent and would vote for the devil himself if it meant we could take down the Obama Administration and every single person involved.
Naomi W. is sexualizing the burkha, Obama wants to talk to children about responsibility, and people who are speaking out AGAINST the power grab called Obama's health care reform are called crazy. Yep, things have changed all right. FOR THE WORSE you fools....
On judgment day may you all get what is coming to you--that would be enough in my book. Would NOT want to be ya!
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