I think we've been more than patient with you guys. Those two statements are completely consistent. If you can't see that, you need a session or two in Room 101.
The essential non-negotiable element of this legislation they are trying to ram down our throats is an INDEPENDENT board, free of Congressional oversight that shall decide who shall live and who shall die.
Tiergarten 4
You and your family shall die so that the interest be paid to the megabankers. Don't worry, they are very understanding and willing to renegotiate the loans if circumstances find you unable to sustain your half of the earlier agreement.
Another, and more recent, comment by Obama re single payer as his personal model.
"August 19, 2008
Obama Touts Single-Payer System for Health Care
Amy Chozick reports on the presidential race from Albuquerque, N.M.
“If I were designing a system from scratch, I would probably go ahead with a single-payer system,” Obama told some 1,800 people at a town-hall style meeting on the economy.
Sadly, the man simply lies his ass off. And does so with relative impunity, thanks to the MSM never calling him on anything, and the fanatical blogs constantly covering for him.
The press always cover over the lies of their beloved. W twice stated Saddam wouldn't let weapons inspector in.... HUH? and of course from the press came the sound of crickets.
However even the lap dog press must find just keeping up with the quantity of Obama's lies a challenge.
A little reporting on the media from http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/aug/13/inside-the-beltway-31140897/
"NBC, MSNBC and CNN have showcased a controversial image of President Obama depicted as Hitler during recent news coverage of contentious town-hall meetings and health care reform.
"They run dialogue and video over this poster and clearly imply that either Rush Limbaugh or 'conservatives' in general are behind the image, which they use as a symbol of extremism. But look closely, and you discover the real credit. It goes to the Lyndon LaRouche political action committee. You can see it. It's right there," Seton Motley tells Inside the Beltway." [More at link.]
So Obama is depicted as Hitler.. wasn't Bush was well at some point? I'm not getting into a twist until they show him with watermelon or fired chicken....imo being shown as Hitler comes with the territory, even for President Fluffy Pillow
David Sirota: "I think Obama is doing a pretty good job pushing a pretty good health care message" Too bad the actual plan is a turkey. Makes me wonder, does Sirota bend forward or do a back bend to stick his head up his ass.
Annie, if I had to bet, I would say that Obama did say the "this year" part...in his head. That way he can tell himself he didn't really lie...that would fit right in with the mentality of his I'm-going-to-give-the-finger-but-make-like-I'm-scratching-my-face-hee-hee-aren't-I-clever bit from the primaries...*sigh*.
Joe, I would say that Obama has at least Socialist inclinations - as evidenced by his unscripted "spread the wealth" comment to Joe the Plumber - but throw enough money at him, and he becomes a conservative right quick.
Hmmm. Well, in 2003 Obama was not president, nor was he the Illinois US Senator (nor likely yet formally campaigning for the Senate seat). Clearly, at that time, it appears he supported this, and equaly clearly, he does not support it now.
So it's a bit of Clintonian lawyerese talk, in my view, comparable to then-President Clinton's musings on the meaning of 'is,' with the reasoning behind it evident in the latter quote from '08.
It could be considered accurate under the nuance of the suppressed predicate: [as a candidate for the presidency, and now, as President] "I [qua President Obama] have not said I am a single payer supporter." I presume THAT alternate version (which I admit he did not say) is accurate (is it? I do not think he campaigned as a single-payer advocate this past cycle).
I know this charitable take, to look for possible suppressed assumptions that would make the statement actually true instead of either false and/or a witting lie, which is a common courtesy of good faith exegesis in academic philosophy, doesn't fly too well with the black/white Manichean world analysis used in politics.
But I hold that just as the technical truth can be used as a lie, so too can what is technically a falsehood be also essentially true.
BTW, this is a philosophical point, and not a defense of Obama per se. However, if the point is that Obama misled THE NATION as to his planning to bring about a single-payer program, he did not appear to do that in the campaign or since taking his current office.
MrMike, I took a pass on the endless debates in the primaries (yawn). Literally didn't watch any of them.
But I must assume that the topic of health care plans and how the candidates differed on that subject must have come up. And was broadcast to an audience of hundreds, and taped.
I'm going with the dog didn't bark argument (cf: Arthur Conan Doyle)-- Obama probably didn't say he'd propose single-payer, since I've not seen any video to that effect.
Are you saying he left that impression by his remarks in those fora, but his able opponents couldn't pin him down?
31 comments:
Most folks will call that "flip-flopping". I call it lying. The man has some serious telling-the-truth problems.
Lonni
I think we've been more than patient with you guys. Those two statements are completely consistent. If you can't see that, you need a session or two in Room 101.
O ne
B ig
A ss
M istake
A merica
Wow!
Guess this is what the "Daily Kooks and Huff-N-Puffers" call......
"11th. Dimensional Bullshit!"
Politician tells lies. Hold the front page! Now Hillary...
He's a lying crapweasel.
But we knew that already.
Dear "b"
Didn't you Failbots tell us last year that Obama isn't a politician - he's the Lightbringer or some such nonsense?
I think b was kidding.
Sorry - I missed the snark font
One
Big
Ass
Marxist
America
"Marxist" my big ass, Bob.
for the last time he is No marxist, he is No socialist he is not even a lefist.
Obama is not a crook.
I'd like those 2 quotes cut together on one clip and then I'd like all the Obots to be forced into repeated viewings.
About 2000 in a row should do the trick.
BO thought: I smell something. Is my ass on fire? Totus: Single payer is not the single payer I used to know.
TT
The essential non-negotiable element of this legislation they are trying to ram down our throats is an INDEPENDENT board, free of Congressional oversight that shall decide who shall live and who shall die.
Tiergarten 4
You and your family shall die so that the interest be paid to the megabankers. Don't worry, they are very understanding and willing to renegotiate the loans if circumstances find you unable to sustain your half of the earlier agreement.
Work makes you free.
"I have not said I am a single payer supporter." -- Barack Obama, speaking in New Hampshire yesterday.
In typical fashion the press did some editing there . I'm sure yesterday Barack said "I have not said I am a single payer supporter...this year"
/snark
Another, and more recent, comment by Obama re single payer as his personal model.
"August 19, 2008
Obama Touts Single-Payer System for Health Care
Amy Chozick reports on the presidential race from Albuquerque, N.M.
“If I were designing a system from scratch, I would probably go ahead with a single-payer system,” Obama told some 1,800 people at a town-hall style meeting on the economy.
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/08/19/obama-touts-single-payer-system/"
Sadly, the man simply lies his ass off. And does so with relative impunity, thanks to the MSM never calling him on anything, and the fanatical blogs constantly covering for him.
The press always cover over the lies of their beloved. W twice stated Saddam wouldn't let weapons inspector in....
HUH? and of course from the press came the sound of crickets.
However even the lap dog press must find just keeping up with the quantity of Obama's lies a challenge.
A little reporting on the media from
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/aug/13/inside-the-beltway-31140897/
"NBC, MSNBC and CNN have showcased a controversial image of President Obama depicted as Hitler during recent news coverage of contentious town-hall meetings and health care reform.
"They run dialogue and video over this poster and clearly imply that either Rush Limbaugh or 'conservatives' in general are behind the image, which they use as a symbol of extremism. But look closely, and you discover the real credit. It goes to the Lyndon LaRouche political action committee. You can see it. It's right there," Seton Motley tells Inside the Beltway." [More at link.]
So Obama is depicted as Hitler.. wasn't Bush was well at some point? I'm not getting into a twist until they show him with watermelon or fired chicken....imo being shown as Hitler comes with the territory, even for President Fluffy Pillow
I feel sorry for the young voters who were so enthusiastic for Obama.
The 2008 election was their first shot at politics--and they f*cked up completely.
Now they've got to live with their failure for the rest of their lives. Poor little bastards.
David Sirota: "I think Obama is doing a pretty good job pushing a pretty good health care message"
Too bad the actual plan is a turkey.
Makes me wonder, does Sirota bend forward or do a back bend to stick his head up his ass.
Can you please expand Rule #2 to include LaRouche nuts, especially when they spout off about their cult leader? What next? Scientologists?
Helen Thomas is calling on Obama to president-up and bring in Single Payer the way LBJ did Medicare.
Here is the link for Helen Thomas' comments...well worth the read!
http://www.wgal.com/helenthomas/20373700/detail.html
Annie, if I had to bet, I would say that Obama did say the "this year" part...in his head. That way he can tell himself he didn't really lie...that would fit right in with the mentality of his I'm-going-to-give-the-finger-but-make-like-I'm-scratching-my-face-hee-hee-aren't-I-clever bit from the primaries...*sigh*.
Sergei Rostov
Joe, I would say that Obama has at least Socialist inclinations - as evidenced by his unscripted "spread the wealth" comment to Joe the Plumber - but throw enough money at him, and he becomes a conservative right quick.
Sergei Rostov
The two statements ARE consistent...he said he was a proponent, not a supporter.
It's not at all weasly. Really.
----------
MrX - You just made me picture Obama hunched over and throwing out the double peace sign...gave me a nice laugh. :)
Sergei Rostov
Hmmm. Well, in 2003 Obama was not president, nor was he the Illinois US Senator (nor likely yet formally campaigning for the Senate seat). Clearly, at that time, it appears he supported this, and equaly clearly, he does not support it now.
So it's a bit of Clintonian lawyerese talk, in my view, comparable to then-President Clinton's musings on the meaning of 'is,' with the reasoning behind it evident in the latter quote from '08.
It could be considered accurate under the nuance of the suppressed predicate: [as a candidate for the presidency, and now, as President] "I [qua President Obama] have not said I am a single payer supporter." I presume THAT alternate version (which I admit he did not say) is accurate (is it? I do not think he campaigned as a single-payer advocate this past cycle).
I know this charitable take, to look for possible suppressed assumptions that would make the statement actually true instead of either false and/or a witting lie, which is a common courtesy of good faith exegesis in academic philosophy, doesn't fly too well with the black/white Manichean world analysis used in politics.
But I hold that just as the technical truth can be used as a lie, so too can what is technically a falsehood be also essentially true.
BTW, this is a philosophical point, and not a defense of Obama per se. However, if the point is that Obama misled THE NATION as to his planning to bring about a single-payer program, he did not appear to do that in the campaign or since taking his current office.
XI
Nor did he correct the assumption that he was for a single payer system, XI
MrMike, I took a pass on the endless debates in the primaries (yawn). Literally didn't watch any of them.
But I must assume that the topic of health care plans and how the candidates differed on that subject must have come up. And was broadcast to an audience of hundreds, and taped.
I'm going with the dog didn't bark argument (cf: Arthur Conan Doyle)-- Obama probably didn't say he'd propose single-payer, since I've not seen any video to that effect.
Are you saying he left that impression by his remarks in those fora, but his able opponents couldn't pin him down?
XI
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