I bring this matter up in order to draw attention to an exercise in anti-logic.
The above-noted crimes have led many to demand that Craigslist owner Craig Newmark shut down the site's "erotic services" section. Newmark refuses to do it.
Newmark's comments defied a request by Connecticut Attorney General Richard Blumenthal, who asked Craigslist to immediately eliminate photographs in the "erotic services" section, hire staff to screen images and ads that violate the site's terms of service and fine users who violate those terms.Just how would the posting or non-posting of pictures have prevented the above-referenced crimes? (In case you're confused, we're talking about pics of the ladies offering their services as masseuses or escorts.)
Some of you may cite moral reasons when you demand an end to Craigslist's sleazy "erotic services" section. Fair enough. I don't have a problem with people who frame their concerns in those terms. At least they are being honest.
But don't pretend that you're talking about safety when you actually want to impose your moral standards on people who may have differing values.
For some reason, many still believe that personal encounters have a higher danger factor when couples first meet via computer. The opposite is true.
Computer usage can be traced. A john who meets a hooker via computer creates a very traceable electronic trail -- a factor which will probably help to convict the person who committed the crimes noted above. Anonymity on the net does not really exist -- except for the very savvy few who understand proxy servers.
Potential criminals know this. Think about it: If you were a modern day Jack the Ripper, would you seek victims via Craigslist, or would you look for streetwalkers late at night, as Jack did?
Before Craigslist, sex workers advertised in free periodicals. Were they safer then? If both Craigslist and those hard copy venues disappeared, the girls would walk the streets. Would that be safer?
I understand that, in recent years, many cities have seen a drastically reduced level of streetwalking. We probably owe that reduction to the availability of a free advertising medium.
I would offer similar observations about "normal" (i.e., legal) romantic encounters.
Many computer-phobes can't shake the idea that it is incredibly dangerous to meet someone in real life after first getting to know that person via an AOL chat room or one of those dating sites. But the use of computers automatically creates a trail, and that trail offers much more safety than women knew in the pre-internet age.
Usually, couples who meet on the web proceed to a voice chat on the phone and then to a face-to-face meeting. By the time a man meets the woman of his cyber-dreams for coffee, he has already disclosed his real name, home address, phone number and (usually) his photo. He has also opened himself to a thorough Google check. Just about the only secret he has left is his blood type.
In the 1980s, people met in bars and clubs. Was that safer? (They also met at work. Nowadays, you can be fired for dating a co-worker.)
I'm not looking to meet anyone, but if I were, I'd feel safer encountering someone on the internet than at a church social. And women should feel the same way.
16 comments:
OK, you convinced me.
Seriously.
Daily-Protest.comDailyPUMA.com(Now imagine an Irish voice saying the next part).
But what about those Pirates, laddy. Surely you agree they are more important and more AP newsworthy than the 400,000 people Chase Bank recently raised the monthly minimum payment on by 150%, or 250% (depending on how you interpret the math).
Hitchhiking is not a good way to meet people either.
I know five married couples who met their partners on the 'intertoobs'.
One is my daughter and son-in-law. They did not meet while drunk at a local bar, but on a site where they and new friends discussed a common interest. That was 11 years ago.
Before my daughter got on a plane to meet him, she'd spent hundreds of hours talking online to him with mutual friends in a group, more hundreds privately, a bajillion on the phone, and had confirmed his position and place of work.
Now I'm a grandma! And I'm nutz crazy about my son-in-law. How would they have met without the new-fangled computer machine 800 miles from one another?
I would think that if someone is trying to hook up on an online erotic services board, protecting themselves is their own responsibility. Or am I asking for too much common sense?
I truly sympathize with the friends and family of the deceased, but inviting a complete stranger into your home (even for$$ex) is NUTS.
A tinfoil hat wearer might claim that the reason the "Craig'sListKiller" story is playing so long in the MSM is because it's a plot to censor, monitor, and perhaps even shut down the internet.
How much wiser are we about politco-socio-econo-shenanigans because we have access to alternative sources of news?
Meeting through the Internet is not more dangerous than meeting in other ways.
The danger in the "Erotic Services" ads on the Internet is the subject matter. For many reasons, n'er-do-well types are attracted to illegal and vulnerable sex workers. The providing a hunting ground, whether cyber or physical, is a safety issue for women because it makes it easier for lazy predators.
For example, just watch those endless Predator shows. These guys pluck minors from the Internet for sex from the comfort of their own homes. Becoming a Scout leader or stalking shopping malls is certainly a lot more work. Thus, I am sure Jack the Ripper would have utilized the Internet if given the option.
"These guys pluck minors from the Internet for sex..."
Notice how those who would censor or regulate immediately change the topic to child protection, even though children are not involved in the present discussion. We're talking about hookers.
I see no counterargument to my point: Craigslist has reduced the number of streetwalkers. Streetwalking is far more dangerous than advertising on Craigslist. If Craigslist disappeared, the number of assaults on prostitutes would go UP.
Look, it's a miserable business -- dangerous at its very best -- and I think women (and men) should seek ANY other means of support. But those who would go that route are probably safer off the streets.
And Jack would use the net only if Jack were a complete idiot.
"These guys pluck minors from the Internet for sex..."
And marijuana dealers hang out around playgrounds.
Craiglist is responsible for getting the ad right not for what happens to those who take unusual risks.
The child argument was to show how "one stop shopping" makes it easier for predators who engage in sex crimes. I understand the topic and I should have picked a better analogy so you did not think I was really saying, "What about the children?!"
I have always supported legal brothels to decrease disease and related crimes. I just find illegal prostitution in any form too risky/dangerous and any tools which make it easier to promote and aid illegal acts do not have my support.
I guess Craiglist is safer than it used to be since the attorney generals from forty States got CL to agree to certain procedures to help catch offenders who shop there. Even so, given our credit card system and its 40-YO security measures, I think many are capable of work-arounds.
I cannot refute you argument that prostituting on CL is safer than on the streets. My gut only tells me that bad people do bad things and I do not want to help them by making access easier with one-stop shopping.
Kelly, I owe you an apology. I came on too strong.
And let me reiterate -- hooking is a ROTTEN way to make a living. I say that as one who has had occasion to speak at length with a lot of ladies who have made a living doing things that others might not consider respectable.
Interesting item I saw in the MSM years before last: The kids who get in trouble with internet predators are those who go looking for relationships with adults. Kids who get unwanted messages from adults simply delete them. The investigation concluded that "this is an example of parents thinking that their kids are stupider than they really are."
Sergei Rostov
Exactly Sergei.
I've always been bothered by that "To Catch a Predator" business. 'Cause what's the truth of those stories, when it really comes down to it? It's not some guy trying to meet up with a 14 year old for sex. It's some guy trying to meet up with a pretend 14 year old for sex. Sure, it does happen that people pick up children on the internet, but like you said, those are the children that are willing to go along with it. Which ties into Joe's point. If some wacko wants to pick up a kid online, he's left a nice electronic trail to find him when she's missing. What about when that kid meets a guy at the mall food court or something instead? The bottom line is real innocent untroubled children aren't getting lured away by sex predators, at least not at the rate the media would have us believe. And those kids who are? I'm not trying to say they "asked for it", but the truth of the matter is they would fall into something similar one way or another. 'Cause it's what they're looking for.
My son, the Special Ops guy, met his wife on-line playing WoW. My daughter met her husband on-line. Everyone is happy, including grandpa.
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