My problem is that too many people fall madly in love with stupid conspiracy theories. The stupider the theory, the deeper the infatuation.
Obvious example: The controversies over the so-called Roswell saucer crash and the mysterious "suicide" of journalist Danny Casolaro hit at roughly the same time. The former captured the public imagination and has now found a firm place in American lore, even though no saucer crashed at Roswell. The Casolaro incident remains far more unnerving. But how many people now recognize the name?
I make this point as preface to my directing your attention to this McClatchy article on the undying issue of Barack Obama's allegedly fake birth certificate and his alleged Kenyan birth. Why would Stanley Ann Dunham have flown from Hawaii to Kenya to give birth? Hell if I know.
According to the skeptics, FactCheck.org and other spoilers of the rumors are part of a tangled web of conspiracy and silence. Some of the accused co-conspirators include:This "controversy" has progressed beyond the boundaries of rational debate. One must consult the psychologists for an explanation as to why so absurd an idea continues to be so popular.
•Election officials nationwide who put candidates’ names on the ballots;
•Judges who throw out the lawsuits;
•Mainstream media (not even FOX News has done much with the story);
•Obama’s family, who must have begun to execute the scheme 47 years ago, when the Honolulu newspaper for some reason agreed to go along and print the newborn’s name;
•Hawaiian authorities, plus their Republican governor.
Of course, Obama paid me to say that.
25 comments:
James Carville has the answer for you. Any political lie not answered within 24 hours becomes a political truth and does not die. That's what the famed Clinton war room in 1992 was all about - getting ahead of these stories in a definitive fashion. This kind of continuation of something so clearly debunked is why McCain early on walked out to a team of reporters with his birth certificate in his hand so that they could see and feel the embossing and address the situation forthrightly with their readers. That's how honest campaigns for office behave - they are very concerned about being sidelined by nonsensical bullshit.
Obama,apparently, had no such concerns. Since, I believe, the fix was in and the GOP agreed not to run hard against Obama in return for us not impeaching Bush (or some such deal), Obama had no reason to worry himself about fall out from the birth certificate. You can bet that if he thought he had a real race in front of him, he woulda been out there with his COLB handing it off to reporters as well. But Obama is an asshole, first and foremost. He didn't need to deal with it effectively and definitively, so he didn't. So now, the story will not die because he did not deal with it in the beginnning and never will die because he doesn't need to deal with it now. As I said, he's an asshole and he's amused.
The whole thing has got me thinking about the 'whitey" tape again. Now, I tend to be skeptical because I've never heard African Americans of Michelle's age use that word. However, an African American friend of mine giggled uproariously when I said I did think Michelle used that word, and assured me that Michelle most certainly had used it - not that she knows her personally. The story from Larry Johnson was that he heard the story from someone who had talked to someone who had seen the tape. If the tape actually exists (color me a skeptic), perhaps the use was intended to keep Obama in line should he win the election. Perhaps the viewings were to assuage Republican concerns that Obama could be controlled as president. The Obama camp has acknoledged that they heard the rumors a full month before Johnson ever posted the story. If the tape exists (and that's a big if), and it is incendiary, then it could very well be something that Obama's presidency could never recover from.
There's an awful lot of smelly muck around that man, and unlike Bill Clinton, he does nothing to remove it. I wonder why.
Tin foil off.:)
Don't forget, Lori, that the LA Times is sitting on a tape, also, that they refuse to release, and certainly has inflammatory material on it.
Joseph, why indeed, would Stanley Ann fly anywhere to give birth? And yet, she was in Washington State, with her newborn infant, before she even knew how to change his diapers.
So she was traveling at that time. That much is documented.
After all the fuss the media made about Palin's travel plans near the birth of her son, where were the same inquiries about Obama's mom?
And, arguably, since Obama has or had multiple citizenships at birth, regardless of where he was born, there are some who interpret the Constitution to read him as NOT "natural born," since only the Founders of our nation were specifically grandfathered in despite also holding British citizenship.
We don't need conspiracies to question the Constitutionality of Obama's presidency. The documentation would be nice, but so would interpretation of the Constitutional definition of "natural born" given the (since lapsed) British and Kenyan citizenships and the Indonesian citizenship
Obama has enjoyed over the years.
I'm actually surprised there hasn't been more talk of the passport angle to this story, especially given the break-ins.
A concern is that this meme is becoming so pervasive on PUMA sites that it threatens to engulf PUMA-dom. We risk being identified with the "controversy" in however much of the mass public mind has actually heard of it (probably not much, thankfully).
If the issue ever does gain prominence, Obama will likely release his actual birth certificate and show that he was, indeed, born in Hawaii, and that will be the end of his problem, but not of ours. In 2010 or 2012, whenever PUMAs are mentioned, the common reaction will be, "Oh, yeah, they're those nuts who got all worked up about that [snicker] birth-certificate thing, weren't they?"
Who gains by having all our legitimate objections to Obama discredited through association with something loopy? That kind of thing has been done before.
Zee,
She was traveling 3 weeks after his birth and didn't know how to change diapers. Weird enough.
The Hawaii State Department of Vital Records received and released Obama's birth information to the Hawaii Advertiser for publication within a few days of his birth. Eight days after his birth, August 13th, 1961 - the newspaper of record announced his arrival in the section that was devoted to the publication of state records - birth, death, marriage and divorce. Had it been a privately paid for announcement, it would have been in a different section. So, we know for a fact that the information came from the state - not from the parents or grandparents.
this is one of the aspects of his campaign that left me very suspicious of him. Why wouldn't he deal with this? The only answer I can come with is that he knew he didn't have to.
Infidel, re PUMA.
That's the nature of the beast. When you have a fair number of rightwing members they're going to push the stories from the other sites they visit. That can be everything from Obama-born-in-Kenya to the very annoying "dead people voting" nonsense. I steered clear at the height of the ACORN hysteria. But the PUMA movement will never be tarred with this particular story, however dearly some may wish to dismiss them.
The original impetus of the group will propel it past any one issue. And the work they've been actually doing, which is going through all of Obama's "small" donors to document irregularities, etc., will be far more likely to be remembered than a few posters linking to other sites concentrating on the missing COLB.
It's a members-interest thing, not an official PUMA undertaking. And personally, I like following the story. It's not as if the Obama camp ignored it. They put out that ridiculous "certification" instead of a certificate. I'm dying to know what Obama's hiding, even if it's not the *place* of his birth.
And the convolutions of the conventional media to either ignore the story, or pretend that it's been "debunked" because of some stupid images *online* is amusing, too. Good grief, are they actually abdicating their role to online sites? lol!
Like Zee, I am curious about what IS on that certificate that Obama does not want us to see. I had never thought, as Joseph posits here, that he did not have to show it since the 'fix' was in. I always thought he was a natural born citizen, but that something else must be on the damn thing or he would have just done what McCain did. The man is just so secretive, no college records either. And how many passports; and which one did he travel to Pakistan on?
bert in Ohio
That's strange. I know of no PUMA sites than want to touch this story. NoQuarter will definitely NOT touch it. Hillbuzz doesn't have it (that I ever saw). Tons of other PUMA sites simply refuse to touch the issue. In fact, this site has talked about it WAY more than most PUMA site.
I agree with Zee's point that Obama is hiding something in his birth certificate. We may not find out what it is until he is dead or one of his insiders writes the tell all book. I am hoping that the controversy makes the document surface now, but I do not think that it will.
He HAS shown you the fucking COLB, Bert. There are photos and video of people holding it. Photos of the thing from all sides. And the office in Hawaii which issues birth certs confirms that the COLB you see online is the one they sent.
And still idiots ask: "What is he hiding?" He's not hiding anything. CASE CLOSED.
MrX -- See www.dailypuma.blogspot.com, which is a roundup of dozens of PUMA sites. So many sites are featuring this "controversy" that there is a special section for them. The www.pumaparty.com/forum discussion group has numerous threads about it. I hate to say it but this has become the PUMA kool-aid.
Like a lot worse hasn't happened when much more important Constitutional language was ignored or undermined. Maybe it's a manufactured Shadow Government issue so we'll all approve of chip implants at birth (so Marlin Perkins can find us when we've grown up) instead of India ink and quills.
I remember Danny Casolaro.
He was journalist on the trail of a computer software and government deal . His supposedly committed suicide in a hotel room....but it was plainly staged....in that blood smears were on the floor as if someone tried cleaning up after.
Spy magazine did an article about him ...when it was good.
DONOFRIO V. WELLS which was distributed by the full United States Supreme Court for conference to be held Dec. 5, is NOT about the birth certificate or the place of birth.
Donofrio states that he accepts that BO was born in Hawaii. The case regards natural born citizenship due to Obama's birth as a British citizen.
Also note this regarding the reporter of the article you cite: "Rick Montgomery just called me from the Kansas City Star and admitted he wasn’t aware that my law suit was not centered on the birth certificate issue. He was sincere and apologized for the way my case was described in the article. You have to give him credit for that." ~Leo Donofrio
The COLB is not the long-form vault copy birth certificate that most of us have; you know, the one with the weight, length, doctor's name and signature, etc. Why not show that one, Joseph? And why so testy?
I'm not sure, but I've heard that the COLB is often issued in cases of adoption.
The photos are of a "certification" which is a different document from the certificate of live birth, Joseph.
And the office in Hawaii confirmed there is a certificate, not that it's the "same" as the certification shown on the websites.
Infidel, again...a subset of PUMAs are following this. It's not part of any official "prowls." The ACORN madness was far worse. It's a full time job to counter all the "world nut daily" posters, the anti-public school crew, etc.
But those issues are not the main thrust of PUMA and never will be. And on the upside, there are topics from the right, such as Odinga, which I'm glad get some coverage, because I think it's a big mistake for the left not to care that Mr. So Experienced in Foreign Policy backed the candidate looking to institute Sharia Law in Kenya...and whose followers looted, burned and murdered after he lost the election. Yeah, Kenya got a real good taste of Change...with nary any apology from the One about how "boneheaded" it was to campaign for Odinga.
The truth is obvious:
The newspaper never showed a report of Obama's birth, they changed the archives to make it look like it did.
Barack was born outside the US to conceal the fact that Stanley Ann Dunham wasn't his real mother, and so no doctor or nurse would see the small "666" birthmark behind his ear.
"Barack Obama" and "Damien Thorn" have the same number of letters.
Thanks god for some voices of reason inside of overheated Pumasphere.
“Native: A natural-born subject or citizen; a citizen at birth; one who owes his domicile or citizenship to the fact of his birth within the country referred to.” -- Black’s Law Dictionary (the most widely-used US law dictionary, being cited as legal authority in many Supreme Court cases).
In accordance to above, a term “natural-born citizen” is a synonymous of a term “citizens at birth”. In accordance to U.S. Code, Title 8, Section 1401:
“The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;”
Donofrio’s case has no chance at all: he’s selling fool’s gold to naive, paranoid and desperate people, considering Obama as the Devil himself.
- Citizen Cane
This issue--a tendency to give credence to all manner of conspiracy insanity--is one reason I stopped going to No Quarter. The other was the disgusting anti-Muslim bigotry.
Most of the well-run PUMA and Obama-skeptic sites don't touch this or any of the other nutty stuff.
Gee, Joe. So anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot? This story must really be chaffing your ass for some reason. Why won't Homeland Security accept a Hawaiian birth certificate as proof of birth? That's a question, I've seen asked in other places, and no, Pumaland is not engrossed with this story, and just like flying saucers you can debunk and scream that everyone who sees one is an idiot or delusional, but somehow they just keep coming.
Like the Obama non-birth certificate non-story. Smoke and fire. As long as even Obama's critics protect him, he will never have to tell the truth about anything-- even if he is denying a lie. (Re: "His sister is a thespian."
Cinie,
If you're born in Hawaii and you send away for your birth certificate, what you will get is a COLB. I've spent quite a bit of time on the phone with the Hawaii Department of Vital Records, and Obama's COLB, as it is shown online, is the standard form that they send out. He probably doesn't have the long form and I'm not sure how you go about getting it.
This should be a non-issue at this point. There is nothing to suggest that anything is amiss on his birth certificate. We know when he was born, what city he was born in and who were listed as his parents - and we know of that none of that information has changed since the first few days after his birth. What the heck else matters? That the discussion continues after the finding of the contemporaneous annoucement of his birth is mind-boggling to me.
Bob,
where did you get the information that the Department of Homeland Security won't accept an Hawaiian birth certificate? And if they don't accept a state document, what do they accept?
If anything, this works to Obama's advantage in that you are all spinning your wheels with a nonissue. There is less resistance to defuse on the problems facing this country when folks are arguing over a point that has categorically been proven by "officials" of the government to be a nonissue.
I would say that is 80% of the purpose of any conspiracy theory- may be some thread of truth in some element of their issue, but all the craziness surrounding it keeps people busy arguing with their shadows, while "they" get away with the ruin of our nation.
Look at where we all sit now in what once was a great nation. You all have no one to blame but yourselves. k
"I would say that is 80% of the purpose of any conspiracy theory..."
I wouldn't say that was the PURPOSE (except maybe in the case of 9/11 trannies), but that is certainly, too often, the result.
Perhaps, not in as great of a percentage that I offered, but I have done research on many conspiracy theories and where they originated .... many cases they were from the extreme right.
Or in "organizations" like Scientology etc. (which has other purposes in deflecting the focus of people's attention on issues) - but I did use a generalization which was meant to save time on the keyboard...80% (disclaimer-no statistical study performed)of the time the result in group think conspiracy theory is that we are distracted from the true crimes and issues that affect the nation. The purpose in these theories really does depend on who originated them...but as Joe corrected--it's not all about distraction from issues--often the purpose is profit or mental masturbation.
k
Lori-- if I remember correctly I read that at Logistics Monster (Diamond Tiger is a Hawaiian and lives there, certainly a better perspective on the issue than I have.
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