Tuesday, March 18, 2008

Slowbama makes a special pleading (Added note)

Can someone please explain to me why so many people consider Barack...(pause)...Obama to be a gifted orator? At least Shatner knows how to machine gun his words between those weird, misplaced moments of silence. Sure, Slowbama speaks more effectively than W does -- but that's like saying he's thinner than Harry Knowles and more sober than Britney Spears.

Once I adjusted to the Tarkovsky-esque rhythm of the thing, Obama's speech seemed impressive -- until he came to this part:
We can dismiss Reverend Wright as a crank or a demagogue, just as some have dismissed Geraldine Ferraro, in the aftermath of her recent statements, as harboring some deep-seated racial bias.
In the U.K., where libel laws are tougher, writers have perfected the art of denying a claim in order to get it on the record: "We can safely dismiss the rumors that Lord Slimey pilfered company funds and raped his neighbor's cat." I would have preferred an honest, straightforward attack on Ferraro. Keith Olbermann's diatribe was inane and hyperbolic, but at least he did not rely on stealth.

It gets worse:
For the men and women of Reverend Wright’s generation, the memories of humiliation and doubt and fear have not gone away; nor has the anger and the bitterness of those years. That anger may not get expressed in public, in front of white co-workers or white friends. But it does find voice in the barbershop or around the kitchen table. At times, that anger is exploited by politicians, to gin up votes along racial lines, or to make up for a politician’s own failings.
The boldfaced sentence plays to The Myth that Hillary used racism to steal votes from Obama. But Obama sends a confusing message: He places his Mythology within a paragraph about black anger, not white bigotry. Taken at face value, the text seems to refer to African American politicians who have ginned up votes within the black community. If that reading is correct, a specific example or two might help: Which black pols have done this? If no examples come to mind, we may presume that Obama chose these words in order to push the Hillary Myth in a subtle fashion.

At least this time he isn't leaving that job to surrogates.
And yet, it has only been in the last couple of weeks that the discussion of race in this campaign has taken a particularly divisive turn.
Here is the point where off I get pissed. The phrasing conjures up an image of Susan Atkins telling a jury that "There was a confrontation, violence broke out, we're still not sure how it all started..."

Obama's camp has been playing the race card since December, making fake "racist" accusations against the Clintons. The Obamites did so in order to win the black vote -- the majority of which she possessed, and without which Obama could not win.

Obama should have apologized for the slime-ball tactics of his campaign -- which, I would remind you, still employs Jesse Jackson Jr.:
Jackson, once again playing the role of the Obama campaign's "race man" enforcer, posed a leading question: "Do you want to go down in history as the one to prevent a black from winning the White House?" Black congressmen were threatened to fall or line or face primary challenges. "So you wake up without the carpet under your feet. You might find some young primary challenger placing you in a difficult position," Jackson said.
Obama "the uniter" should have taken this opportunity to denounce the toxic lies told by his supporters. Over on Huffington Post (an allegedly left-wing publication -- I say "allegedly" because I have long suspected that Arianna is one Greek who would never reverse her position), an article about the Clinton campaign caused one reader to shout: "Vince Foster! Vince Foster! Vince Foster!" Such sentiments are not rare; they find expression every minute of every day on the pro-Obama blogs.

The "left" journals would cease repeating Scaifeshit if the Savior From Illinois denounced the practice. Do not hold your breath waiting for the Savior to speak.

As for Obama on Wright...

In my blogging career, few developments have amused me more than the sight of progressive bloggers insisting that they would never judge a candidate by his pastor. Come off it.

If a member of Jerry Falwell's church became a frontrunner for president, Blogostan Left would scream like a pack of howler monkeys. Hundreds of articles would resurrect every bigoted, bizarre pronouncement ever made by the savant of the Donald Duck Baptist Church. At least a few of those articles would bear my byline.

I'm old enough to recall how appalled lefties became (and properly so) when Reagan conferred with "End Times" preachers of the Hal Lindsey variety. No member of a racist "Identity" church will ever get near a nomination, and no speech by such a candidate -- however carefully worded -- would erase his history of attendance.

Remember the gloriously goofy work of Pastor Gene Scott, the televangelist who espoused weird theories about the Great Pyramid? Be honest: How would the pundits (right or left) react if any follower of loopy ol' Doc Scott became the leader of a major party? The media hallways would echo with shrieks and cackles, even though the Guru of Glendale was merely a harmless eccentric.

When Pat Robertson -- who had no chance of success -- ran for president in 1988, his critics had great fun poring through every jot and tittle of his nuttier religious pronouncements. Wags started to have similar fun with Huckabee until McCain sewed up the nomination.

Notice how Josh Marshall doesn't talk about the McCain/Hagee connection any more? As Hatlo used to say: "That's diffo!"

Progressives want to live in a convenient world in which others may not speak as they do.

Long-time readers may recall my argument that Democrats should have clobbered the Republicans for choosing Tim LaHaye to give the opening prayer at the 1984 Republican National Convention. At the time, LaHaye openly referred to the Pope as the Antichrist, and Reagan needed the Catholic vote. (LaHaye is more circumspect nowadays.)

Speaking of Catholics: Will they be pleased by the Obama spokesman who equated Catholicism with Wright's "God Damn America" pronouncement? (See earlier video embed.) Of course, anti-Catholicism -- like anti-Clintonism -- is, in our society, the socially-sanctioned alternative to race hatred.

Obama has denied attendance at the "God damn America" speech, but he should have known about it. Wright sells the video. Wright would not offer such wares if they expressed sentiments outside his usual message.

Obama's defenders must understand: You can go for the "crazy old uncle" argument, or you can go for the "cherry-picked quotation" defense, or you can go for the "Wright was right" line. But you can't have it all three ways. You must choose one mode of attack and discard the other two.

The video evidence gives the lie to any argument that ABC News "cherry picked" uncharacteristic moments from the Wright canon. Look at the response from the congregants; the story is there. Did they gasp with shock? Or did they react with glee and approval? Wright knew that his words would be accepted because he knew his crowd -- and for twenty years, Barack Obama was in that crowd.

Indeed, Wright's congregants -- showing commendable honesty -- did not argue that Wright's "God Damn America" remark was uncharacteristic.
Flooded with a tide of criticism, Trinity declines to condemn Wright's remarks, instead casting them as consistent with the traditions of the black church.
There goes the "crazy old uncle" argument. There goes the "cherry-picked quotation" argument. All you have left is the "Wright is right" argument -- and I'll be overjoyed to see the Obamafolk try to run on that.

Rolling Stone exposed some of Wright's more questionable spews nearly a year ago, yet Obama chose to denounce those sentiments only when the controversy hit television. Listen close and you can hear Clark Gable saying his famous line: "You remind me of the thief who is not at all sorry he stole, but is very sorry he got caught."

I prefer the forthright words of Reverend John Thomas, president of the United Church of Christ, to Obama's casuistry.
Pastor Wright's judgment may be starker and more sweeping than many of us are prepared to accept. But is the soul of our nation served any better by the polite prayers and gentle admonitions that have gone without a real hearing for these five years while the dying and destruction continues?
Do I counsel polite prayers or gentle admonitions? Hell no. I prefer passionate argumentation founded on examples and evidence. And I would be very interested to hear examples and evidence proving the claim that Bill Clinton did to the black community "what he did to Monica."

No doubt, many lefties will rise to that challenge. Lefties have also claimed that FDR was a tool of the rich, that JFK coddled da Mob, and that Hillary killed Vince Foster! Vince Foster! Vince Foster! The predictability of a progressive is axiomatic.

Although one must be suspicious when a rag like American Spectator quotes an anonymous source, I would like to know if a former Obama adviser really did say these words:
"The things the Clinton campaign have attacked us on are the things we were prepared for," says the former adviser. "Trinity, his close financial and ideological relationship to former SDS members, we knew it all going into this, and they haven't disappointed.
If this quotation is accurate, then the Obama campaign actually seems to be under the impression that Hillary Clinton, all-powerful Queen of Evil, dictates which stories run on Fox News. Ah yes. That explains why Fox always gives the Clintons such positive coverage.

Incredibly, some contributors to Daily Kos and Democratic Underground have expressed that very view. What more evidence do we need that the progressives and the Obamabots have lost contact with reality?

I'll have more to say about Wright and his theology soon, but that should suffice for now.

Added note: My readers have resorted to the usual tactics employed by people with losing arguments. They have heaved mindless insult in my direction, and they have tried to change the subject. Anyone out there want to try to address the actual points made above? Anyone want to show up flaws in my reasoning?

Stop being cowards. I'm not going to allow you to play the switch-the-topic game anymore.

31 comments:

Anonymous said...

As others have noted, BHO actually distanced himself from Wright as early as his campaign announcement, by his action of not having Wright present at the announcement although many others close to him were there.

That action is evidence that BHO already had determined there were problems associated with his association with Wright, and that he was laying down a predicate to assert that he wasn't so close to the man as to be splattered by the backsplash he was about to create.

As a guess, that move may have preceded the RS reportage, but I am not sure that is the case. Assuming it does, then BHO was well aware of the controversial sermons, whether or not he actually heard any of them in person in church.

And of course, silent shunning does not quite provide distance, considering the 20 year history of their association.

However, it must be remembered that even in Dr. Martin Luther King Jr's "I have a dream" speech, the part that nobody quotes anymore accused (white) America of presenting black America with a bad check, returned, marked 'insufficient funds.' MLKJR also rather famously described America as the greatest purveyor of violence in the world, even as he condemned the war in Vietnam.

So the kind of grievances Wright mentions have a long-standing history in the black church community in America, and were the subject of talks even by the iconic MLKJR, although those have been air-brushed from history, ala the old Soviet Union's treatment of embarrassing and purged poltical figures.

...sofla

Joseph Cannon said...

In other words, sof, you are casting off the "Crazy old uncle" defense and the "cherry-picked quotation" defense. You are going for the "Wright was right" defense.

I'm cool with that.

Last poll I saw, 77% of the country hated Wright. He may be right; he may be wrong -- but you cannot deny that those numbers make him an albatross.

gary said...

You can dwell on the past but I am going to predict the future. Here goes:

1) Obama wins the nomination. Ok, not a terribly risky call.

2) While McCain takes the high road, the independent 527 groups will conduct a dirty campaign, carefully designed to play up every fear white people have ever had about black men, without actually crossing the line into ouright racism.

3) They will fail, in that they will cross the line into outright racism. As Reagan did with his welfare-queens-driving-cadillacs anecdotes, but the times have changed and they won't get away with it.

3) Obama wins the Presidency, without Joseph Cannon's vote.

Anonymous said...

regarding theology Cannon..Paul the Apostle said that "this is my opinion" and not "Thus sayeth the Lord", occasionally. He spoke as you or I or Wright can speak based upon our thoughts and feelings and best judgement..and not necessarily totally 100% "Truth".
When Wright says "God Damn America" he would not be the first church leader to do so. Martin Luther had very strong feelings about the Vatican and the Papal tradition and declared that the pope was the antichrist, based on some pretty sound theology I might add.so Wright, a black man that has suffered like millions of other black, yellow, red, and .....(pick a color) white? all colors have reasons to dislike or even hate some of the American failures and hypocrisies. Just look at our so called justice system where countless colorful folks have been railroaded, evidence planted, witnesses bought or blackmailed, cajoled, framed (OJ?), or murdered by the Klan or any other racist homicidal and pathological psychopaths, who have achieved a modicum of power (or wished they had power).
Then there is the other Martin Luther "King" that preached that Americas war in Viet Nam was a racist war destroying much of the black population in recruitment and battle postioning..then there are all the drugs American agents of some kind or another, flooded the black communities to further degrade and destroy them.
I assume you are lily white so you have not experienced this kind of hate or this kind of tragic racism but many have so God Damn Ameerica and God will damn those that continue encouraging and perpetrating this unconscionable behavior. That is Theological as well as logical if you believe in divine justice..since the justice down here is so impure and so unjust so Wright is right and he ended his sermon by reminding everyone to "Love" your neighbor citizens even though they are sometimes damnable, (which you and the other pundite conveniently leave out..context Cannon context)..but that is not our responsibility for the Good Book says "Judge not lest you be judged"..accordibngly..or in New Age vernacular "What goes around will certainly come around" and in the Eastern tradition it is called "The law of Karma" so be careful Cannon you are skating on thin ice yourself.
(Just a reminder..not a threat since God alone is the final arbiter of all these stains and injustices.)

Joseph Cannon said...

Although I reserve the right to delete all future anonymous contributions, I will let the above theological treatise stand.

Another vote for "Wright was right"!

Excellent. My heart sings whenever an Obamabot embraces that line of defense. By all means, don't let me stop you. Do go on...!

Anonymous said...

Joe, you have become your own version of the worst of Rev. Wright.
Anger and hate have wounded you.
Obama offers hope and all you can do is voice outrage and call people names. Enough, I am outa here.

AitchD said...

I just saw Barry for some 2 hours in Charlotte, NC, talking and answering questions in the round. He's very brilliant, very cool, and very hip. No one is very honest except maybe on their death bed.

He explained how his administration would work to achieve what sound like ultra-progressive policies and programs - but he makes it believable because he has taken on the best campaign promises of every other candidate. Is it plagiarism? Co-optation? Being street smart? Academic political science? I think it's way cool.

Barry and Hillary both watched and listened to Harry Belafonte at the Congressional Black Caucus Forum in early 2005, when he gave his own (well-known) version of the Wright message. It looked like they approved and even agreed. Amerika sucks, Joe, and you can't deny it, and you know why it sucks; and it sucked when Clinton was POTUS too. I'm AitchD, and I approve this comment.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

Why do people consider Senator Obama a gifted orator? I got nothin'. I've seen no evidence of it so far. For the record, I also think Senator Clinton's oratory leaves a lot to be desired. I don't think either candidate has real (let alone brilliant) rhetorical acumen, something that was painfully obvious in the debates and can't be hidden on the campaign trail (no matter how hard their deluded cult-like supporters try to do that). A candidate's public speaking ability has next to nothing to do with whether s/he will get my vote, but I understand why it grates on you, Joseph.

Joseph Cannon said...

Agreed, jen, and I should have made the same point. Hillary is a competent speaker but not great. I'd put Obama in the same category.

Jeez, when was the last time a really terrific speaker got near a nomination? Jesse Jackson Sr. was the gold standard. Bill Clinton could be amazing. Kerry and Edwards were very good, though not top-flight.

On the Republican side...hmmm.

I guess it is safe to say now that I thought Romney was technically very formidable. Oily, yes, but he could be fascinating.

Reagan...? Everyone else seemed to find him mesmerizing, but I didn't. He certainly could not give an unscripted speech...

Poppy was a joke. His son has become an even worse joke. I LOVED listening to Nixon -- every time his voice quivered, you felt his inner desire to confess.

All the really talented speakers on the conservative side are on the radio, it seems.

Oh yeah. TO those who delight in telling me that you are gone, gone, gone...

Every time I hear that, my readership stats go up. On Monday, without any high-profile links, they doubled.

I would prefer them to be cut in half!

Anonymous said...

Hillary's Nasty Pastorate

by Barbara Ehrenreich

There's a reason why Hillary Clinton has remained relatively silent during the flap over intemperate remarks by Barack Obama's former pastor, Jeremiah Wright. When it comes to unsavory religious affiliations, she's a lot more vulnerable than Obama.

You can find all about it in a widely under-read article in the September 2007 issue of Mother Jones, in which Kathryn Joyce and Jeff Sharlet reported that "through all of her years in Washington, Clinton has been an active participant in conservative Bible study and prayer circles that are part of a secretive Capitol Hill group known as the "Fellowship," aka The Family. But it won't be a secret much longer. Jeff Sharlet's shocking exposé, The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power will be published in May.

Sean Hannity has called Obama's church a "cult," but that term applies far more aptly to Clinton's "Family," which is organized into "cells" -- their term -- and operates sex-segregated group homes for young people in northern Virginia. In 2002, writer Jeff Sharlet joined the Family's home for young men, foreswearing sex, drugs, and alcohol, and participating in endless discussions of Jesus and power. He wasn't undercover; he used his own name and admitted to being a writer. But he wasn't completely out of danger either. When he went outdoors one night to make a cell phone call, he was followed. He still gets calls from Family associates asking him to meet them in diners -- alone.

The Family's most visible activity is its blandly innocuous National Prayer Breakfast, held every February in Washington. But almost all its real work goes on behind the scenes -- knitting together international networks of rightwing leaders, most of them ostensibly Christian. In the 1940s, The Family reached out to former and not-so-former Nazis, and its fascination with that exemplary leader, Adolph Hitler, has continued, along with ties to a whole bestiary of murderous thugs. As Sharlet reported in Harper's in 2003:

During the 1960s the Family forged relationships between the U.S. government and some of the most anti-Communist (and dictatorial) elements within Africa's postcolonial leadership. The Brazilian dictator General Costa e Silva, with Family support, was overseeing regular fellowship groups for Latin American leaders, while, in Indonesia, General Suharto (whose tally of several hundred thousand "Communists" killed marks him as one of the century's most murderous dictators) was presiding over a group of fifty Indonesian legislators. During the Reagan Administration the Family helped build friendships between the U.S. government and men such as Salvadoran general Carlos Eugenios Vides Casanova, convicted by a Florida jury of the torture of thousands, and Honduran general Gustavo Alvarez Martinez, himself an evangelical minister, who was linked to both the CIA and death squads before his own demise.

At the heart of the Family's American branch is a collection of powerful rightwing politicos, who include, or have included, Sam Brownback, Ed Meese, John Ashcroft, James Inhofe, and Rick Santorum. They get to use the Family's spacious estate on the Potomac, the Cedars, which is maintained by young men in Family group homes and where meals are served by the Family's young women's group. And, at the Family's frequent prayer gatherings, they get powerful jolts of spiritual refreshment, tailored to the already-powerful.

Clinton fell in with the Family in 1993, when she joined a Bible study group composed of wives of conservative leaders like Jack Kemp and James Baker. When she ascended to the senate, she was promoted to what Sharlet calls the Family's "most elite cell," the weekly Senate Prayer Breakfast, which included, until his downfall, Virginia's notoriously racist Senator George Allen. This has not been a casual connection for Clinton. She has written of Doug Coe, the Family's publicity-averse leader, that he is "a unique presence in Washington: a genuinely loving spiritual mentor and guide to anyone, regardless of party or faith, who wants to deepen his or her relationship with God."

Furthermore, the Family takes credit for some of Clinton's rightward legislative tendencies, including her support for a law guaranteeing "religious freedom" in the workplace, such as for pharmacists who refuse to fill birth control prescriptions and police officers who refuse to guard abortion clinics.

What drew Clinton into the sinister heart of the international right? Maybe it was just a phase in her tormented search for identity, marked by ever-changing hairstyles and names: Hillary Rodham, Mrs. Bill Clinton, Hillary Rodham Clinton, and now Hillary Clinton. She reached out to many potential spiritual mentors during her White House days, including new age guru Marianne Williamson and the liberal Rabbi Michael Lerner. But it was the Family association that stuck.

Sharlet generously attributes Clinton's involvement to the underappreciated depth of her religiosity, but he himself struggles to define the Family's theological underpinnings. The Family avoids the word Christian but worship Jesus, though not the Jesus who promised the earth to the "meek." They believe that, in mass societies, it's only the elites who matter, the political leaders who can build God's "dominion" on earth. Insofar as the Family has a consistent philosophy, it's all about power -- cultivating it, building it, and networking it together into ever-stronger units, or "cells." "We work with power where we can," Doug Coe has said, and "build new power where we can't."

Obama has given a beautiful speech on race and his affiliation with the Trinity Unity Church of Christ. Now it's up to Clinton to explain -- or, better yet, renounce -- her longstanding connection with the fascist-leaning Family.

from:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barbara-ehrenreich/hillarys-nasty-pastorate_b_92361.html

Having decided to become an investigator of religious leanings, perhaps Joseph will study up on this sect and inform us of its merits, or lack thereof.

I have previously asked a question that seems to have bypassed your attention, Joseph, so I'll pose it again, in hopes of an answer.

When Democratic nominee Barack Obama selects John Edwards as his Vice Presidential running mate, how will you reconcile your allegiances?

Peter of Lone Tree said...

(Crossposted from Blondesense):
As I opined a couple of weeks ago, the two Democrats are going to spend so much time and energy beating the shit out of each other, that it will enable McCain to walk off with the election:

Reuters: "Democrat Barack Obama's big national lead over Hillary Clinton has all but evaporated in the U.S. presidential race, and both Democrats trail Republican John McCain, according a Reuters/Zogby poll released on Wednesday."

'Course, maybe Barack & Hillary are getting paid to take a dive.

Joseph Cannon said...
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Joseph Cannon said...

jfk guy, you're getting sloppy.

I knew that someone would bring up the Family thing.

If you were REALLY careful, you would have known that I have talked about the Family on a number of occasions.

But look at the hypocrisy involved. First, the Obamabots are saying that Hillary herself -- the Queen of Fox News, the Ruler of ABC, the woman who gives Orders to Drudge -- has engineered the Wright controversy.

(I just read yet another accusation of that sort over on TPM, which is supposed to be one of the SANE Dem sites.)

And then we have this...

"There's a reason why Hillary Clinton has remained relatively silent..."

Notice the dichotomy?

Which is it -- is Hillary too scared to address the topic, or did she start the whole thing?

If you check, last time I talked about the Family I was still in Anyone But Clinton mode. So it was not out of favoritism to Hillary that I didn't discuss the one (1) report connecting her with that group.

That piece was published in Mother Jones. Last September. I don't know of anyone else who has done investigative fieldwork in this area.

Truth is, I just did not accept that story at face value.

I felt that it was poorly sourced. The whole thing had the stench of a 90s-era hit job, of the kind we knew so well. The actual proof comes down to a paragraph of boilerplate praise for Doug Coe.

Naturally, the DUmmies take those words as "proof" that Coe is Hillary's "spiritual mentor,"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5135283&mesg_id=5135283

If you look at the actual article, we find a very different story than the one being presented by you, by Ehrenreich, by the DUmmies and by other progs.

The pastor who had the most profound impact on her was Don Jones...

"Because Jones introduced Clinton and her teenage peers to the civil rights movement and modern poetry and art, Clinton biographers often cast him as a proto-'60s liberal who sowed seeds of radicalism throughout Park Ridge. Jones, though, describes his theology as neoorthodox, guided by the belief that social change should come about slowly and without radical action. It emerged, he says, as a third way, a reaction against both separatist fundamentalism and the New Deal's labor-based liberalism.

Under Jones' mentorship, Clinton learned about Reinhold Niebuhr and Paul Tillich—thinkers whom liberals consider their own, but whom young Hillary Rodham encountered as theological conservatives. The Niebuhr she studied was a cold warrior, dismissive of the progressive politics of his earlier writing. "He'd thought that once we were unionized, the kingdom of God would be ushered in," Jones explains. "But the effect of those two world wars and the violence that they produced shook his faith in liberal theology. He came to believe that the achievement of justice meant a clear understanding of the limitations of the human condition." Tillich, whose sermon on grace Clinton turned to during the Lewinsky scandal, today enjoys a following among conservatives for revising the social gospel—the notion that Christians are to improve humanity's lot here on earth by fighting poverty, inequality, and exploitation—to emphasize individual redemption instead of activism."

The Sharlet piece is slanted toward sensationalism as far as it can be, but if you read it carefully, you will find that he has one (1) inside source for his linkage between the group and Hillary. And that source does not link Hillary with right-wing politics of any kind.

Rather, the picture created is one in which the group makes overtures to all politicians, right and left. The group an agenda, but -- as Sharlet makes clear -- they make every effort to hide that agenda. They talk to pols of all sorts on a purely spiritual plane. (I have no doubt that they do so with the hidden intention of getting the proverbial foot in the door.)

Has Hillary changed her position on, say, abortion? Nope.

Hillary was a spiritual seeker during the White House years, for reasons which I can understand. Like a lot of folks under stress, she went in various directions and sought out all sorts of counsel.

Remember back in the 1990s, when the right damned her as a New Ager? Even a wiccan?

There were even a few who accused her of being a secret Vatican agent, because she met with Mother Theresa.

Now the left damns her as a Right Wing cultist.

Come on. You're reaching.

She may have listened to representatives of all sorts of different spiritual traditions, for the same reasons that I once tried to read all of the world's great religious scriptures. But her real church is the United Methodist Church. She addressed a meeting of that Church here.

http://www.historicalsocietyunitedmethodistchurch.org/GC96/hilltext.html

Also see here:

http://gbgm-umc.org/mission/news/hillary2.html

That's where SHE has been the last 20 years.

Joseph Cannon said...

I should address your other point, CJFKG.

One of the things I like about Edwards is that he never hides the fact that he is personally ambitious. So I have no doubt that he would accept a VP slot under Obama, Hillary, McCain, Bloomberg, Perot, Lucifer, whoever.

I'll make my decision based on the top of the ticket.

What does Obama have to gain by choosing Edwards? In light of 2004, one cannot make the argument that Edwards will help the ticket in the south.

Obama could shore up his credibility as a Warrior on Terror if he picks Clark.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Joseph Cannon said...

By the way, CJFKG -- you have yet to pick your rationalization for Wright. Which is it?

As a reminder, here are your three (irreconcilable) choices...

1. He's a crazy old uncle

2. His views were distorted by cherry-picked quotation.

3. Wright was right all along.

Here's hoping you choose Door #3.

Anonymous said...

Joseph: I suppose I am your worst nightmare: a late-middle-aged, WASP female Obama supporter living in Chicago who three times over the past five years attended Chicago services where Reverend Wright preached. I was moved, not repulsed, by his words. They were words of hope and action, not division. There were no "hate messages" at all in the sermons that I heard. Quite the contrary: he inspired me to volunteer at some South Side public schools, where I continue to work to this day. You demand that I provide "evidence" to refute your wrongheaded declarations. My own eyes and ears provided me with the evidence on those three Sundays.

After reading this post as well as your responses to some of the "comments," I continue to be dumbfounded by your persistent attacks on Barack Obama and his supporters. It is wise and good to critique any candidate, but your diatribes have reached the point where you are undercutting your own credibility. And that's a shame.

Joseph Cannon said...

You undercut your own credibility by refusing to address the issues.

Stop dodging.

Anonymous said...

So what about Hillary Clinton and her connections to Rupert Murdoch?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/09/politics/main1600694.shtml

So Hillary holds the same positions as Rupert Murdoch if the two are having a fundraiser together? Is she going to say something about that shady relationship? Is she going to distance herself from that?

JS

AitchD said...

"[W]e may presume that Obama chose these words in order to push the Hillary Myth ["that Hillary used racism to steal votes from Obama"] in a subtle fashion."

Huh? I thought it was Bill, not Hillary, who is accused of using racism. You're saying that Senator Obama (who, we've been told, is "clean" and "articulate") is subtley accusing Senator Clinton of racism? You're saying that whatever her sociopath for a husband says and does she's responsible for?

No, no, I know, it's a subtle mythos, a lawyer's trick of using cut-outs, it's indirect and at a remove, plus it's fed to gasoline breathing Obamabots who turn everything into a conflagration.

My informant on Mars just txt msgd me that he thinks Bobby, as a JFK campaign guy, was much more ruthless (the Martian actually used that word: "rthlss"!) than Jesse Jackson, Jr.

Why are you trying to uncomplicate the nimbus of the penumbra? Do you secretly want to be French?

I'm much angrier than you because the bullshit is taking a heavy toll on Hillary - let's face it, she's a threshold geezer who can't afford to waste her beauty rest in damage control instead of sweet dreams.

Barry is trying to play fair. He got the message when Hillary mentioned his ties to the real estate guy back home. Didn't you see how they looked at each other in that exchange? He knows she can ruin his career in less than a Cheney heartbeat. He already knew it when he first announced his candidacy. They both know it. She demanded that he denounce Farrakhan, not Russert, whom Obama kept dodging. She knows when Barry will listen to his interior mother's voice, she has an olman of a similar ilk. Barry didn't like that, it shows on the video. Trivial stuff of course, but they were emotionally engaged at the moment, it was deep shit, too. They've been feeling each other out. They're both superb candidates and campaigners in spite of and because of their fucked-up staffs and supporters. Barry and Hillary are being honorable, if only because they have to be with so much at stake. Tens and tens of trillions of dollars, remember?Maybe the whole fucking planet. Maybe it's a Mexican Standoff between them, which means if one fires, everyone fires, and no one's left standing.

Except John Edwards and Albert Gore.

Looking ahead, we need a POTUS who will in effect give back to Congress its first place among equal branches of government because this imperious unchecked shit has to stop. It can happen with a Democratic landslide and supermajority, or with a Dem supermajority and a weak Republican POTUS.

Let's go back to Tara and think about 'race' tomorrow, or after the election when we can do something constructive. There's nothing more to say about it now, Barry capped it elegantly in his essay. Now I want to hear Hillary talk about misogyny and gynephobia, about the patriarchal tyranny of five thousand years that hasn't abated in the Judeo/Christian/Muslim civilizations and cultures we've been born into.

Anonymous said...

-Cannonfire?
-Yes...can I help you?
-Nahhh...I seem to have pushed the wrong button.....I was looking for Canno... never mind...
-What were you looking for?
-Joseph Cannon at Connonfire.
-Welcome!
-There must have been a tornado in Kansas tonight...cause....I landed in DU.
-No, this is Cannonfire.
-wow!
-So were did the sane people move to?

Joseph Cannon said...

Actually, I'm surprised that none of my readers scored me for quoting American Spectator. I just had another look at the quote, and it now seems to me that the unnamed Obama camp "source" is probably fictional.

Here's the giveaway:

"his close financial and ideological relationship to former SDS members..."

Even if he DID have a "close financial and ideological relationship" -- and he doesn't -- no-one favorable to Obama would put it that way.

Jesus. These guys just made up a quote. Out of whole cloth. That's worse than anything that David Brock reveals in his book "Blinded by the Right."

Anonymous said...

Names with comments, people. It's not that difficult.

Joseph Cannon said...

jen, thanks. But at this point, I'd be happier if the American Spectator supplied names with quoted sources.

That still fries me. I mean, I know that that magazine is a right-wing rag, but concocting a source is beyond the pale. What amazes me is that we now accept journalistic concoctions as a matter of course. We don't get angry about them.

Anonymous said...

Joseph I vote for these two.

2. His views were distorted by cherry-picked quotation.

3. Wright was right

Absolutely! Context Context Context, Cannon, he ended that sermon that oft quoted day, with the admonition that they must Love above all else..Cannon did you listen to the whole enchilada? You gripe when your "poison" pen pals ignore what you have said in its entirety but you refuse to do the same for Rev Wright..right? Are you afraid of that four letter word L O V E? cause you rarely (if ever) use it. It is the ultimate force for good and for change as Ghandi demonstrated and MLK proved in his non violence standard for himself and his associates. so if you can accept that dictum then
3. is also an accurate slogan..right?
or if you turn off the you tube before the man finished his remarks you would think he was a Farakhan marionette which he is not. He does not worship Herr Hitler as Farakhan does he worships Jesus as we (people like me) do.
Big hug and Thanks for allowing the "Family" blurb to remain posted, it is an important "evil" force to be remedied since that is exactly how Hitler won over the churches in Germany and his ilk are succeeding today in "our" land.
We most expose them and root them out because they are minions of the Fascist game plan and they study closely the blueprints Adolph left behind

Sabrina

Anonymous said...

Beeta, it's not the commenters who've moved here from DU! Joseph is channeling them! Have you not noticed? Most of the comments are his!

This obsessive series of rants has taken the idea of "vanity blog" to new and disturbing depths. It's become an echo chamber for Joseph's tirade. He no longer hears anything but what he wants to hear (a symptom we're all familiar with from suffering under its most heinous expression the past seven-plus years). If you offer a fresh perspective, he either removes your comment or cusses you out like some annoying gnat he wants to swat.

That, Jen, is why so few people will post their names! Why would anyone subject themselves to his venom? The only other place I've ever witnessed such profound lack of reason and civility (besides the rightwingnut blogs, of course) is DU, and I left there years ago.

Well, as the song says, another one bites the dust. I've never used anything but anonymous to sign off, but as my final farewell, I'll comply with this last mad demand.

Anonymous said...

Oops. Forgot the real purpose of my post, this pithy little statement on anger in the black community. Duh:

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/03/19/open-thread-753/

Anyone who fails to recognize this fact, a point Obama emphasized, is just not paying attention.

Sort of like Joseph's failure to pay attention to Sabrina's own empirical experience actually sitting in Wright's church.

Anonymous said...

Gee, Joseph, where to begin?

You say:""But look at the hypocrisy involved. First, the Obamabots are saying that Hillary herself -- the Queen of Fox News, the Ruler of ABC, the woman who gives Orders to Drudge -- has engineered the Wright controversy.

(I just read yet another accusation of that sort over on TPM, which is supposed to be one of the SANE Dem sites.)

And then we have this...

"There's a reason why Hillary Clinton has remained relatively silent..."

Notice the dichotomy?

Which is it -- is Hillary too scared to address the topic, or did she start the whole thing?"


There WOULD be hypocrisy involved if the same person had said both things. The Barbara Ehrenreich piece I cited says one of them, but not both. You are conflating two disparate points of view and arbitrarily ascribing them to whomever your enemy-du-jour may be. That's not even a cheap debating point; it's just sloppy.

I have never accused Hillary or her supporters of playing the race card, so how is it that you think I am responsible for those who do? Shouldn't you take that point up with them? And shouldn't you be able to distinguish between who said what, and who didn't? Isn't that a minimum requirement, particularly for somebody who was once such a meticulous stickler for "facts?"

As for your question - "Is Hillary too scared to address the topic, or did she start the whole thing?" - the two aren't mutually exclusive. Were I inclined to accept that Hillary did start the whole race-bait thing [which I'm not, but will offer this point, arguendo], I could envision her seizing political capital from putting Obama on the defensive re: Wright, while not being anxious to volunteer the extremist nature of some of her own co-worshippers. The one doesn't negate the other, a fact you would have acknowledged, once upon a time.

You said:"Obama could shore up his credibility as a Warrior on Terror if he picks Clark."

I agree, and hope that he would at least consider doing so, even though Clark has supported Hillary. Jim Webb might also present a sufficient military background that such a ticket would offer some succor to those who think Obama's a lefty-anti-military pantywaist.

You said:"By the way, CJFKG -- you have yet to pick your rationalization for Wright. Which is it?

As a reminder, here are your three (irreconcilable) choices...

1. He's a crazy old uncle

2. His views were distorted by cherry-picked quotation.

3. Wright was right all along.

Here's hoping you choose Door #3.


Joseph, you seem inexplicably anxious to pigeonhole even respectful dissenters into some category you can easily mock. "Irreconcilable choices?" Sorry, but since I have my own brain, my own views, and my own ability to articulate them, I'd like to say "all of the above," because they are "irreconcilable" to you, not me.

Wright has said things that cause discomfort and in a most unapologetically confrontational way. That makes him a bit of a crazy uncle, to those who are offended by the comments. Those seeking acceptance in polite society don't say things like that in public.

And, of course his comments have been cherry-picked by the media to focus upon the most sensationalistic. It sells papers, and it galvanizes viewers' eyeballs. If the media's taken a pass on airing or reporting his more prosaic statements, are you really surprised? Please don't be so transparently disingenuous.

Likewise, he's also been correct in some of his statements, even those which might cause offense. [Who among us have never thought "God Damn America" over some issue or other? Left, right or in between, political assassinations, lynchings, Viet Nam, '68 Democratic Convention, Contragate, Iraq, Katrina... pick your bete noir, we've ALL been pissed off to the point of outrage at some time or another. I know it's blasphemous to admit in public, like crazy uncles do, but in the privacy of our own minds, we've all had similar thoughts at some time, irrespective of our political hue.]

I don't know the totality of the story behind who's pissed on your shoes and made you so hornet-mad, Joseph, but invective and condescension aren't a winning charm offensive for you or your new candidate. I've said nothing in my posts that would earn me the scorn you heap, or that would merit lumping me in with the "bots" and "tards" you so despise.

I think you might be more effective if you were to dial down the vehemence just a tad, and dial up the eloquence. And, perhaps, if it's not too much trouble, try to keep straight who is your sworn enemy, and who is actually a friend imparting views with which you are free to disagree.

They are not the same thing, and it would help you, and make a far more effective advocate, were you to bear that in mind.

AitchD said...

Joseph says: "What amazes me is that we now accept journalistic concoctions as a matter of course. We don't get angry about them."

From Blah3.com:

"Well, They Don't Say That, Exactly. In Fact, They Say the Exact Opposite.

Saturday, March 15 2008 @ 10:27 EDT
Contributed by: Invictus

Well, I knew if I looked hard enough I'd find something resembling a rah-rah piece on the economy, and here [link] it is.

Unfortunately, I couldn't read it all. I stopped to post here before I finished the second paragraph, the reason being that I just can't stand journalistic lethargy or, quite possibly, willful deceptiveness.

The author, a former chief economist at the U.S. Department of Labor states:

'But we still don’t have conclusive evidence that we’re in a recession, which the National Bureau of Economic Research defines as two consecutive quarters of negative growth.'

Funny, but the NBER [link] website says (emph. mine):

'The NBER does not define a recession in terms of two consecutive quarters of decline in real GDP.'

Why should I keep reading?

That's part of the problem in media today: Everything, every word, every sentence, every claim, must be fact-checked for accuracy. No longer can anyone be taken at their word. Not even the former chief economist of the Dept. of Labor. Sad.

UPDATE: Have very politely contacted the author and asked her to reconcile her position with that of the NBER. I've received a "Read Receipt" for my message, but no response as yet. We'll see what kind of integrity is at play here."

Anonymous said...

I hope that my comment is not interpreted as off topic, but I felt a need to inject my thoughts on Wright and his sermons. I do not take Wright's methodology in his sermons as too different from those in our nation's white churches.

About a year ago, I attended a sermon with my family while on a visit in Oklahoma. After I left this church, I decided to never walk into another church. I was fairly astonished with the cultic type methodology of the sermon used before the flock. The pastor knew I was in attendance and he held back in some fashion (Joe knows what i am talking about here) , but the general summation was that we are in THE END TIMES. This is the message in many churches across our country, and yet most people prefer to pretend that this isn't going on.

When I heard about Wright, my initial reaction was similar to Joe's, as I recalled the CU professor who was tarred and feathered and then fired for stating similar beliefs.

But, in my heart, I know that many in this country have realized that war has only begotten more war. Our history is our future- the tracks of our forefathers cannot be erased with war, but it is possible to change the tide with time and good deeds matched.

I also recognize that many in this country believe that the war on drugs was a big con and it was our very own government who delivered crack to the hood. To me (a white person), locking up drug users seems to be institutionalized slavery. Not many want to look at the cold hard facts of this-and use the increased prison population as a rationalization for increasing private contracts with prisons (high cost of prisons):
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_19_15/ai_54736555

(the above article from 1999 segregates the "new slave labor" argument to the radical left)

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=captive_labor

People don't want to talk about the new slave labor and who is paying the price in the so called war on drugs- but that doesn't mean that people of color don't question our government in this within the sermons of their neighborhood church.

In any case, most churches teach community and service. I can see that guidance in many of our nation's leaders. I know half the time they do not tell us all that they know or believe- but that is not too different from many of our own relatives.

Leaders that inspire the people to reach new heights in our society are rare.
I think this country is in dire need of a leader like that-but I honestly can't say that any of these candidates will live up to that. I simply know anyone is better than Bush. Someone said to me not too long ago, democrats break your heart, to which I replied.. after Bush I am willing to put my heart on the line, heartbreak will certainly be a price worth paying because it won't even come close to the damage our nation has had under the Bush regime.
kc