Tuesday, August 29, 2006

"The time has come," the Walrus said, "to speak of many things..."

Confession: I don't like you.

That admission does not apply to all of you. Most of you are wonderful. But I can no longer pretend that I'm happy with the audience this blog has acquired, or that I get much fun out of this unpaid gig.

Why the sour 'tude? Let's start here:

The other day, I received an email message promoting the Protocols of Zion. The usual formula of rationalization applied: Even if it's not a genuine document, it describes what's going on. Sergei Nilus, the original promoter of the hoax, said pretty much the same thing nearly a hundred years ago: "Let us admit that the Protocols are false, but is it not possible that God should make use of them in order to expose the iniquity which is approaching?"

Good old Nilus. He got the concept of "truthiness."

If the folks who visit Cannonfire consider me ripe for a truthi-ful argument like that, then I've done something seriously wrong. Everyone knows that I am no friend to the Israeli government or to the concept of Zionism. But that doesn't mean you should come to my door peddling race hatred and fake documents.

The problem goes well beyond that correspondent, this blog, that ancient hoax, any other hoax, racial issues, or any specific issue. Right now I'm feeling rather disgustipated with the whole wretched human race, including them what's on my own side of the political aisle. Much as I'd like to believe that only rightists have a weakness for truthiness, 'taint so. Right, left, and off-the-map, people believe what they want to believe.

All of which is a long way of saying that I have HAD IT with the so-called 9/11 "Truth Movement."

The infuriating denizens of that growing sub-culture exemplify everything wrong with conspiracy theorists. And yet those are the very people who read my humble offerings, because I have become pegged as a conspiracy guy. Which means I've done something seriously wrong.

(To read the rest, click "Permalink" below)

Nothing is more dangerous than a conspiracy theory, for demagogues use such notions to justify political outrages. Consider, for example, the recent Lebanon debacle. How could the Israelis, most of whom are as decent as anyone else, rationalize their nation's crimes? Because they've fastened onto the idea that everyone else is out to get us -- which is, in essence, a conspiracy theory. This belief makes them deaf to the world's expressions of outrage, and to the counsel of their better angels.

The Jewish myth of anti-Semitism as an all-pervasive, quasi-preternatural force constitutes the obverse of the Nazi myth of the Jews as malign manipulators of world events.

Both theories offer "fail safe" mechanisms. If you are an Israeli and you hear someone criticize your nation's mistreatment of the Palestinians, you need merely mutter "Ah, once again we see the plague of anti-Semitism" -- and your thinking is done for the day. Conversely, if you are a Nazi sympathizer and a writer presents evidence that the holocaust was real, you need merely mutter "Of course, the Jews paid him to say that" -- and your thinking is done for the day.

Christianity, and probably every other major religion, relies on such fail-safe mechanisms. Just try telling a Left Behind fan the truth about the book of Revelation. Watch his eyes glaze over the moment you try to explain what Nero redivivus means -- that's the point when your non-listener will interrupt and ask: "Are you saved?" If you say anything other than yes, expect to confront an impenetrable expression of smugness. You are not among the elect. You speak the Devil's lies. "This is obviously one of Satan's deceptions," your fundamentalist friend will tell himself with a happy smile. He's happy because his thinking is done for the day.

Proposition 1: A conspiracy theory becomes toxic the moment a "fail safe" mechanism kicks in.

Proposition 2: A conspiracy theory becomes toxic if it fulfills an emotional need.

Proposition 3: A conspiracy theory becomes toxic when adherents arrange the facts to suit the theory instead of the other way 'round.

The 9/11 Untruth Movement is an increasingly poisonous cesspool of pseudo-science, gullibility, and deliberate deceit. In posts to come, I will do my humble part to expose those deceptions. And I fully expect to become the target for attack, because the 9/11 faithful have developed a particularly insidious Fail Safe mechanism. "The Bush forces must have paid him to say that," the unreflective capital-B Believers mutter to themselves whenever someone tells them something they don't want to hear.

Sorry. But you're going to have to do a little more thinking than that.

Let's make one thing clear: Aside from Google, whose ad program fetches me the monthly equivalent of a couple of combo plates at El Torito, nobody has ever paid me dime one for this blog. (Will anyone within the Truthiness Movement believe the previous sentence? I doubt it.)

George Bernard Shaw once noted that the American utopian communities which made few demands on their participants failed rapidly, while those utopian experiments which required much sacrifice and toil lasted much longer. Why? Because ego prevented the participants from accepting the possibility that their sacrifices were in vain. They had invested too much of themselves to give up.

Conspiracy theories, especially the ones that have turned rancid, work in a similar fashion.

Toward the end of his life, Ezra Pound -- brilliant poet, notorious racist -- broke down and admitted that the Jews did not rule the world. After decades of stumping for a Protocol-ized weltanschauung, he finally confessed that he had gotten it all wrong. How many other people have ever had the courage to re-think a long-cherished conspiracy theory? How many have the intellectual honesty to step back, to question first principles, to ask themselves "Do I really know what I think I know?"

Bloody few.

Some of my correspondents compare the 9/11 Truthiness Movement to the JFK assassination research community. Fine. Let's make that comparison.

And let's start with this question: Where are the best-known and most-respected JFK researchers? Where do they stand on 9/11? Have any of them signed up for a hitch with the "controlled demolition" brigade? Where's Peter Dale Scott? Anthony Summers? Dick Russell? Mark Lane? David Lifton? Robert Groden? Jim DiEugenio? Even the folks who congealed around conspiracy queen Mae Brussell (I'm thinking here of Dave Emory and John Judge) sneer at the bombs-in-da-buildings theory. Not too many years ago, these guys were considered unruly wild men and intellectual extremists. Today they are dismissed as fuddy-duddy middle-of-the-roaders, too dull to invite to the cool kids' party. Have they changed, or has the surrounding culture just plain gone nuts?

To my knowledge, the only well-known JFK researchers who have embraced the 9/11 Truthiness Movement are Jim Marrs and Jim Fetzer. Both are frustrating cases.

Fetzer means well, and he's no dummy. But he brought near-ruin to the JFK community by trying to call into question the Zapruder film. (Fetzer has argued that the film was manipulated in ways far beyond the capabilities of '60s-era special effects wizardry.) I stopped following JFK research the moment that zany controversy became an inescapable part of the landscape.

Jim Marrs believes in space aliens. He also accepts as genuine the fictional Iron Mountain report. He has questioned the holocaust. His best-known book, Rule by Secrecy: The Hidden History That Connects the Trilateral Commission, the Freemasons, and the Great Pyramids, manages to be even worse than the title might lead you to suspect. It is, in fact, one of the most ghastly books I've ever read.

Stand with Fetzer and Marrs if you feel so inclined. I prefer other company.

So much for my general thoughts on the 9/11 Turthiness Movement, and on conspiracy theory in general. In days to come, I'll offer a series of posts on the mythology of 9/11. I had hoped to focus my attentions elsewhere -- life is short, and the 9/11 beast requires constant attention -- but if one must, one must. When these posts appear, I won't snip comments offered by controlled-demolition enthusiasts. Bring 'em on, as a noted dunderhead once said.

This series will probably alienate readers. Doesn't matter. Better to speak honestly to an empty house than to win a crowd by giving lip service to a popular hallucination.

38 comments:

Anonymous said...

Joseph, this is a rant worthy of Bill Maher and totally on target. Conspiracy theories are generally based on a lack of information and the ability to rationally infer cause and effect. That some official conclusions seem to contradict the laws of science and human nature should lead to skepticism. Unless one has provable information involving skuldugery, one cannot prove conspiracy.

Meanwhile, perhaps you can set up a mail filter to reduce the number of nut mails you receive.

I don't always agree with you, but I check what you and Dr.E have to say each day. There's nothing like an opportunity to expand ones thinking.

Tom Hawk

Anonymous said...

Joseph,

Hang in there. There are plenty of people like myself who visit your site, because you offer a variety of worthwhile perspectives on an expanse of topics. While I haven't commented much, I have been a daily reader since the "wired" episode.

Don't let the crazies get you down.

manowar
Boston

Anonymous said...

I've read as much as I've had time to of the "truth movement"'s research, and as someone who is both exceedingly rational and very familiar with many aspects of the machinations of the military industrial complex, whether they be the result of malice or simple incompetance (I have been studying conspiracy theory with great interest since I was 11 years old) the closest I can come to a definate position is that I haven't drunk the kool-aid but I also wouldn't put 9/11 past these absolute horrid bastards. At the end of the day I come to the only conlusion that one can rationally come to with a situation such as this, and that is that I don't know. Some people may say that this sort of indecision is wishy washy or a form of intellectual cowardice, However, to my way of thinking, believing something without question when there is no way to actual certain facts to go on, is an example of people avoiding their fear of the unknown, or at least of their not knowing, but taking refuge in that last bastion of the irrational. Faith.

You are doing a fantastic job Mr. Cannon, you are doing the most important thing that someone can do in times such as these, you are making the truth matter more. Do not be disheartened by those who are simply here picking through the cherries for a lovely excuse to justify their hatred of others, (generally a form of self protection to divert their attention from the true target of their rage, themselves), however flimsy and misunderstood that ragged scrap of a reason may be. They are not listening to you anyways. They are simply here, chained by the neck to their preconceived notions, tilting their heads to listen to the traffic go past, in hopes that they will hear something noisy go by to give them an excuse to start barking.

With that said, I tip my hat to you and wish you a good day sir. You are a gentleman and a scholar and the world could use a lot more people like you.

L.M.

Anonymous said...

I hope you will make clearer in these coming posts exactly what aspects of the 9/11 "truth" stuff you object to. Is it only the "controlled demolition" theory?

Because, there isn't any doubt in my mind that there's a hell of a lot of truth about 9/11 that has not been shared with us citizens.

I offer you this as a suggestion: that you remain an agnostic on the controlled demolition issue (which is what I do) but go on probing at the edges of the 9/11 event. Joe, please don't waste your time, and ours, trying to "prove" that there couldn't have been placed charges in the WTC. You can't do it. It's a logical impossibility, given that whatever evidence you might summon up could only have been found in the steel debris, which was shipped off to China in a peculiarly expeditious fashion.

And also, you might interpret the recent crackpot feedback as an evidence of your popularity. If a Hollywood celebrity doesn't get at least a few similar letters every day, he knows he's not A-list anymore, right?

There are several things that make you one of the few blogs I check consistently. One is that you are prolific; almost every single day you have something new. The other is that you let your imagination run wild and don't give a fuck.

Keep up the good work. The foul mood will probably pass.

Anonymous said...

So what exactly is Nero revivus. Not even the omniscient google appears to have heard of it :-O

Joy Tomme said...

Far be it from me to try to jolly you out of your bad mood. Fact is, you're right.

You're right about us (as in, we're an irritating crew) and you're right about how you attracted us (as in, all that ridiculous conspiracy nonsense thrown in with all that righteous conspiracy nonsense).

Why not stop responding? Just put out your thoughts, let people comment but don't comment back. That back-and-forth dialogue shit really attracts idiots.

And the people who say you've got a lot of constant, faithful readers are right, too.

But I know what you're real beef is. You're pissed as hell at yourself for the following you've attracted.

Well, Joe, just suck it up. Make whatever changes this epiphany you've had requires, but get on with it. It isn't us, although we're a rag-tag scruffy group. It's you you're mad at, so either stop the blog, change the blog, or change yourself. But get off our case. We actually love you. But you're a pain in the ass, too, you know.

Joy Tomme
Ratbang Diary at: http://ratbangdiary.blogspot.com

Anonymous said...

joseph,
i realize that your patience wears thin but you must be aware that you are providing a valuabe service in keeping people informed, something that wasn't readily available prior to the internets blogging blossom.
i believe it was on this site i read about george bush giving arthur ashe head back in 84, certainly no proof was offered to substantiate it but obviously you thought it had some merit. certainly there are enough questions surrounding 9/11 to warrant questions regarding the official version. i personally believe that the was some complicity in the 9/11 scenario just i believe george bush did give arthur ashe head.
you are not the only one who thinks the human race is headed pellmell for hell buddy, but we all get down just as we all get out of the funk sooner than later.
count your blessings can you imagine the mail greg szymanski gets.
if it was easy everybody would be doing it

Joseph Cannon said...

icerat, I'm sorry for the typo. I meant Nero Redivivus. It's the standard scholarly explanation for the Book of Revelations. Basically, we know from other ancient documents that there was a conspiracy theory circulating not long after the emperor's death: Rumor held that Nero had survived his assassination and -- once he was sufficiently tanned and rested -- would soon come back to resume the persecutions. In other words, the revived Nero was the Antichrist.

Fundamentalists don't want you to know about any of this. They don't want you to know that the Apocalypse describes a false prediction.

allan said...

nice work, joseph. this blog is one of the top places i go to for thought-provoking discussion.

i don't know if i qualify as a member of the 9/11 movement -- i have done a lot of research and helped paul thompson with his huge timeline -- but i do look forward to your thoughts on 9/11 and other researchers. i can't say i've followed a lot of the gossipy side of things.

re someone like Jim Marrs. should we care that he believes in space aliens? or should we simply look at his 9/11 work and judge that?

everyone has quirks and no one we decide to align ourselves with will be exactly how we want them to be. and those quirks will likely cause mainstream people to giggle and not take us seriously. but really, what can be done to stop that?

*********

bush gave arthur ashe a hummer? now THAT is news!!

Anonymous said...

bravo, joe! nothing like a little unadulterated rage to get the juices flowing, not to mention the responses.

interesting that all the responses so far have been friendly, chummy, encouraging, and deeply personal.

you make a real connection with these folks, joe; us folks, me included.

but i do think joy is right, though. you're ranting about things that either you cannot change (just foolishness) or that you can, which would then mean that's your stuff.

hopefully, now that you got that off your chest, you feel better. and can count some of us as blessings.

don't let the boogeymen get to ya; they really are not worth the energy it takes to sigh inaudibly.

keep it up; this blogoworld would be so much the worse without you!

oh, and ps to icerat, you may have googled the wrong spelling; try this:
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=nero+redivivus&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Anonymous said...

Joseph,
keep the faith. Against stupidity, the gods themselves contend in vain.
I love a good conspiracy theory as much as anyone, but Occam's razor must come into play. Beyond a cetain point, the tin foil hats folks are just into complete denial and have to go further and further afield to support their "theory".
Let them go, ignore them and concentrate on what you're doing and doing really well.
You're a treat to read every day.

Anonymous said...

As long as you identify them as "your audience" you'll just make yourself nuts. You didn't create them and you're not responsible for them.

The fact is that there are a lot of very needy people out there -- lonely people with empty lives. They will seize onto any strange theory to give themselves a sense of importance and of knowing more than other people. And then they will peddle that theory any place they think they have a chance of beingt listened to.

I think of them as the intellectual equivalent of the fat girls in Spock ears who used to hang around science fiction conventions a couple of cosmic cycles ago. Just looking for love...

Anonymous said...

i've been stopping by this blog everyday for a long time now. there's always something interesting, important, and challenging to delve into. even though the cyber realm doesn't always encourage praise and expressions of approval, you should know simply from the sheer volume of readers you attract that your efforts are grandly appreciated and constantly applauded.

it is clear, though, that this 11 september "truth" bit pushes your buttons.

building your own 9-11 soapbox is no way to eradicate the questions and debates and never-ending theories. you would simply be adding fuel to the fire. we have plenty of fire.

it would be sad to see this blog get mired down in such a specific, un-ending debate. you have acquired a vast -and regular- group of readers. don't let one thing (as large and as complicated as it is) ruin your ability to speak clearly.

we are not merely your audience observing a performer. we are readers and thinkers that are constantly trying to navigate this complicated mess of a world. your blog has the ability to help us focus clearly on what's happening today and where we're headed tomorrow.

no matter what the topic is, emotional fights and debates about truly unproveable theories and personal beliefs are relentlessly tiring and, as we all know, a sure fire way to lose the attention of any potential "listeners".

if the blog realm -or even the world in general- has got you down, take a step back. shake it off, catch your breath, and then come back to us. there's a lot of work to do here, and we sure could use your help.

Anonymous said...

If you are going to get mad at someone, please don't get mad at your readers. They are not the ones purposely (i hope) spreading lies and disinformation. Look at people like Cheney and Rummy who have fed the American people a steady diet of lies and bullshit for the past 6 years.

People can't help being a bit paranoid when your f*cking government lies to you 24/7.

If you don't believe in the CD theory, then fine, but don't call people crazy for saying that what they saw with their own eyes looks for all intents and purposes like controlled demolition ok???

Please toughen up a bit. These are tough times. Work to get honesty back in government and maybe you'll find that some of these "whacky conspiracy theories" will start to go away once people feel their government isn't lying to them.

Anonymous said...

Hi Joseph,

Perhaps your peevish rant is just an over-reaction to some silly spam, but your dumping of the entire 9/11 Truth Movement into the Protocols of Zion bag is inconsistent with your normally nuanced distinctions. Perhaps it's indicative of the intellectual panic that many of us experienced when we started to sense the implications of certain aspects
of the 9/11 plague--and didn't want to admit we sensed them.

9/11 Truth naturally attracts its share of lunatics; some few of them have bigoted agendas. I don't claim to have the answers, but I know some of the questions. All we know for sure is that the official coverups are blatant and we need a new investigation. My paranoid bigotry did not cause the towers to turn to dust in mid-air, didn't spread flight 93's debris over six miles, didn't paralyze the air defence for 90 minutes, and didn't shut down the Pentagon's defences.

If debunking the "truthiness" is the only approach you can justify to address the Smoking Elephant in the TV Room, so be it. I applaud your intention to address it at all. This issue is bringing down the Bush regime, and they'll fight back with everything they dare to use. Are you sure that idiot who wrote you about the Protocols wasn't paid by the Bushcists? ;>)

gnocchi said...

Gotta say, the best part of this discussion so far is the comment about Bush and Arthur Ashe (it was actually Victor Ashe). Whoever posted that, you owe me a new keyboard.

Anyway...

One question keeps bothering me about the whole 9/11 story: if BushCo was not directly involved, why do they continue to act as if they are guilty? After all, they could easily destroy the conspiracists' claims simply by releasing the many videos of the Pentagon crash or subjecting some of the WTC steel to independent analysis (assuming any still exists, that is).

Until they do so, the conspiracy theories will continue -- and rightly so. If the official story is true, the government must possess conclusive evidence proving this. The fact that we have seen none of it is troubling, to say the least.

Anonymous said...

Hey Joe,

Revisiting now after reading your rant this morning, and I noticed the little "Science vs.Bull.. The Real 9/11 Truth Movement" box o' links.

Is this what you consider the real stuff, the serious, believable 9/11 material?

I ask because I see a link to the Catherder piece from abovetopsecret.com .

Say it ain't so, Joe.

Joseph Cannon said...

It's so. The photos are terrific. I think it's a great piece posted to a weird forum. However, I plan to inflict my own Pentagon musings on you soon, perhaps as soon as tonight.

Anonymous said...

The bulk of the comments are right, you know. You DO deliver a service to all of us that visit your site regularly (and, in my case, first) that is precious in its 'truthiness'. At the risk of aging myself Cannonfire is my Midlothian Mirror of today. You and Dr. E. help ground me in this crazy world. Don't be so hard on us or yourself. We're all in this together. I look forward to your future posts.

Anonymous said...

Joe,
I read your blog every day. And yes, I am a conspiracy buff.....sort of. The thing about conspiracies is that they are borne out of a nervous reaction to "something" not being right. For instance, TWA800 crash, the NTSB was shoved off the investigation and the FBI (criminal investigation???) took over. That makes people nervous because it is not what we expect. Who knows something we don't and what is it? We are just like rats in a lab cage: when their routine is upset, they get nervous and start scrambling all over each other.

So, when the unthinkable happened on 9/11, time stopped for all of us, even those of us on the west coast, the left bank of the US. When the debris, the evidence, was spirited away without examination, the tapes of the FAA and/or NORAD "disappear" people get nervous and want to know why. It is easy for this stuff to feed on itself in the absence of any competent leadership.

Oh, yes, the reason I keep reading your blog is that, when you talk about any conspiracy theory, or the latest political gossip, you site sources and give your reasons for believing or not believing them. In other words, you lend a tone of realism to the hysteria. That I can live with!

Keep it up.

fallinglady

Anonymous said...

You reap what you sow.

Anonymous said...

Okay, so I'll admit I'm one of your readers who stops in pretty much only for the "conspiracy" stuff (though occasionally I do find some of the other content interesting as well).

First off, let's face facts: you ARE a conspiracy guy, and that's why you've been pegged as such. I thought I knew of most of the conspiracy theories out there until I came across this blog - I've since been exposed to probably around a dozen that I'd never even heard of. For example, who other than hardcore conspiracy buffs even knows about, much less reads books by Jim Marrs?

Regarding 9/11, it seems to me that you think at least some of the evidence that the government was complicit in 9/11 is compelling, but you don't like where it all leads. It's not going to work out into a nice 'n neat Conservatives Are Bad, Liberals Are Good storyline, is it? Obviously Bush and lots of other Republicans take a good beating but the odds are, if the government was involved with 9/11, that a lot of Democrats must have been involved too, or at least known what was going on and not done anything about it. Furthermore, the ramifications would go well beyond just politicians - the media, the engineers who supported the official story, all the academics and courts and the like who have sanctioned the story, etc. would all be essentially discredited. A lot of changes would have to occur in society.

Maybe that's why you like Daniel Hopsicker so much - he provides a clean little theory where the official story is mostly correct, but there's lots of extra details about Bush and Osama both being tied up in a complex web of criminal activities, while leaving the Democrats and the rest of society out of it - thus reaffirming your pre-existing worldview without any unwanted cognitive dissonance. (Which is not to say that I think Hopsicker's research is crap - I think it's good, but obviously it's just one piece of a larger puzzle.)

And since you mentioned the "Protocols of Zion" - does it bug you, as it bugs so many in the 9/11 research community, that so much of the evidence points to deep Israeli involvement in the attacks? Mossad agents tracking the hijackers, dancing Israelis filming the collapses, Silverstein's connections with Sharon and Netanyahu, Moussaoui's emails being sent from Nick Berg's computer, Odigo receiving advanced warnings, Abramoff's connections with Atta, strong ties to Israel among almost all the neocons, long Israel history of framing Arabs for terrorism, etc. - it's a little hard to ignore it all. You note that you've written some fairly strong criticisms of Israel, but maybe admitting that they could have had a hand in 9/11 is a little too much, and would be conceding a major point to people you look down upon as being ignorant, evil anti-Semites?

You say you're frustrated that people just believe what they want to believe. Are you sure you're not just doing the same thing?

I'll look forward to reading whatever else you have to say about the 9/11 movement in your upcoming posts.

Anonymous said...

Truthiness, damn I like that word. But, there is nothing especially diabolical about the concept if placed in the right context.

For instance, If I write an article that just happens to be true in almost every respect, except that I made it up, http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a007.htm or maybe I just changed some names in the article. Or maybe I wrote 1984 and now it's here. Or, take Rathergate, where conversations with Burkett's lawyer lead me to believe the memos were a set up with help from within CBS. A disinfo trap... borked documents to down the whole story.

"Dan Rather continues to stand by the story, and in subsequent interviews has articulated that he believes that even if the documents are false, he believes that the story is true."

Yeah, it ruins the documents for any courtroom evidence, but useful for other things nonetheless. Like who ran the set up. It's easy to make fun of... but, what about the story?

You know, if I wanted to rule the world, I'd use the diabolically brilliant Protocols and make sure they were blamed on the Jews, that way no one would talk about it.

DrewL said...

I fully believe that there was conspiracy (beyond the obvious conspiracy of 19 highjackers and al Qaeda) involved in 9/11. But I don't believe that it required all of the crazy alleged happenings that some would believe. Even if everything we saw that day happened just as we saw it on the surface, there's still plenty of room to believe that other, more nefarious forces were at work in causing or allowing it to happen.

Sometimes, I wonder if part of the conspiracy is to float a bunch of ridiculous sounding theories out there just to discredit the general notion of a conspiracy. If some wingbats are floating nutty theories, then it's easy for more sane theories to be lumped in together. It tends to undermine the entire conspiracy argument, thus protecting the perpetrators from serious discussion and investigation.

Distraction and deception are the hallmarks of any psy-ops, after all.

Anonymous said...

Joseph,

Your comments reminded me of a recent piece by Gary North called When Conspiracy Theories Induce Paralysis.

On the 9/11 problem specifically, it brought to mind a couple classic articles from Hopsicker examining a curious nexus involving international super-crooks, best-selling author John Grey (Men Are From Mars...), and the "Truth Movement".

Keep your head up. I'm really glad I found your blog and enjoy reading it daily but I must admit, BushWired--which initially brought me here--was pretty conspiratorial and to my knowledge remains but a theory.

CA

Anonymous said...

Joseph,

Your comments reminded me of a recent piece by Gary North called When Conspiracy Theories Induce Paralysis.

On the 9/11 problem specifically, it brought to mind a couple classic articles from Hopsicker examining a curious nexus involving international super-crooks, best-selling author John Grey (Men Are From Mars...), and the "Truth Movement".

Keep your head up. I'm really glad I found your blog and enjoy reading it daily but I must admit, the whole is Bush Wired thing--which initially brought me here--was pretty conspiratorial and to my knowledge remains but a theory.

Anonymous said...

Alright, I confess: given the anniversary we're facing here, I'm feeling too melancholy to unleash the rant of my own about this entry that I'd intended to deliver this morning, and so will just spit out the one thought I had while reading this one that has nothing to do with September 11, conspiracy communities, a journalist's responsibility to her society or a writer's relationship with his audience. Well, it has nothing to do with anything except that last thing...

Am I to interpret Joseph's comment about no one having paid him anything to produce this site to mean that exactly none of us have yet utilized the PayPal donation feature?

I will once again plead indigence, but I know some of you are holding. Some of that number may even have retained a high enough sense of post-Bush personal security to have already set up PayPal accounts at some point.

GUYS. PLEASE. MY GODS.

I would if I could and when I can, I will. Those of you who do have the resources need to seriously consider what this blog is worth to you and what it isn't, and I don't mean to what degree it validates your own unusual, painfully under-recognized opinions about the neo-cons, the right, and our increasingly warped civilization. I come here first and foremost for information and analysis about government and economic matters that despite my own not insignificant intelligence, I am sometimes unable to develop on my own every day, or locate anywhere else in blogworld. I don't love all of it all the time, and Lord knows this entry isn't my favorite, but without Cannonfire, I'd probably be living in a box somewhere, (at least my current box has plumbing, you know?) as the social and economic land mines it has allowed me to sidestep weren't discussed in any other information resources I can find.

Seriously. Pay up. It's past time.

Anonymous said...

Joseph, are you familiar with Dave Kopel's "59 deceits" site about "Fahrenheit 911"? It's very impressive--if you haven't seen the movie.

"Debunking 911" is a lot like that site. Look at the first segment. "The towers did not fall at or below free fall speeds…" Correct. So what? It's generally agreed they fell in 15 seconds, about 1.6X freefall speed. But the 9/11 Commission said they fell in 10 seconds, so a lot of people are confused on this. The first sentence says "In every photo and every video, you can see columns far outpacing the collapse of the building." Why then don't they show us such a photo? The one they give us doesn't demonstrate the claim.
I'm one sentence into the segment!

Let's look at the second one, "Molten Metal". Sentence six asks: "Why would they use thermite which cuts steel without announcing it then switch to explosives?" The debunkers claim there's no answer when the answer is obvious: in mission-critical tasks you employ redundant systems. A set of duds discovered would have spoiled someone's day (but not al Qaeda's, since they could just try again).

The segment goes on to claim walls would have to be moved to access the columns (why not use elevator shafts?) and that no mechanism exists for placing the thermate (wire steel channels angled across the face of the columns to make an
angle cut).

Debunking 911 is a silly stupid hack
job, just as Dave Kopel's was. I'm really surprised your bullshit detector didn't go into the red.

Anonymous said...

Joseph: I agree with most of your comment makers. You write a fine blog that is always on my daily reading list. That doesn't mean that I agree with all you say, but I read other commentators with the same reaction. It is still possible to be informed and annoyed at the same time.
Part of the problem with some of the comments however is the peculiarly American habit of dividing the world into categories: with us or with the terrorists; believers or satanists; supporters of Israel or anti-Semites; and in the instant case believers of the official version or conspiracy theorists.
In fact a conspiracy is just an agreement by two or more persons to carry out an illegal act or to achieve a legal end by illegal means. The official version is itself a conspiracy theory. The test must surely be which theory, the governments or the critics, best matches the available evidence. Here there is no contest. The official version is so full of improbabilities, logical impossibilities, impossible coincidences and the like that the real 'tin foil hatters' are those who persist in supporting the government's version.
All I have ever asked of you in regards to the destruction of WTC 1, 2 & 7 is look at the evidence in the light of the laws of physics. Read David Ray Griffin, Judy Woods and Steven Jones (the modern equivalents of the authors you cite from JFK days) and see if you still maintain your position.
As for those names you nominate. For goodness sakes, most of them are old old old. Mark Lane will be 80 next year! But since you mention Peter Dale Scott, you may not know that he has jointly edited a new volume called "9/11 and the American Empire". He has a new book in pre-production called "The Road to 9/11" due for release next year. He is an historian, poet and political writer so demanding he take a position on controlled demolition is hardly fair. Nonetheless the 9/11 and the American Empire book is co-edited with David Ray Griffin and he has written authoratatively on the demolition issue: see for example the 2006 book edited by Paul Zarembka "The Hidden History of 9/11/2001". The contributors to those two edited volumes are all highly respected academics. All of them, including Scott, accept that it took more than plane crashes and brief fires to cause three skyscrapers to fall down at free fall speed.
I shall read you forthcoming arguments with the same interest as I have read your blog in the past. Long may you thrive.

Anonymous said...

But your blog is pretty cool.

Your anger is comprable to Dave Emory on this topic. I saw Emory in West LA 6 or 8 months back and no fascist on the planet made him spew as much venom as he did when talking about people in the "9/11 truth movement". He ridiculed the idea that Building 7 came down due to controlled demolition by saying that the morons with that theory had probably never been to the WTC and seen it's underground mall, which was expansive. He explained that the collapsing towers, as they were coming down would have expended great force underground, underneath the other buildings in the complex, undermining their stability.

Yet I've never seen any evidence that that mall extended to building 7. Building 7 was added to the WTC after the fact.

http://www.greatbuildings.com/cgi-bin/gbc-drawing.cgi/World_Trade_Center.html/World_Trade_Site_Plan.gbd

What I find interesting is the depth of your anger. I do look forward to your posts on this matter, as I do all your posts, but the anger is on the order of 'the lady doth protest too much". (No gender insult intended.)

To clarify, I'm convinced that 9/11 was what they call an "inside job". One of the best collections of evidence I've seen is here.

http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2004/08/coincidence-theorists-guide-to-911.html

As for the controlled demolition stuff, I don't know for sure. Don't see how any layman could. There are a number of things that do seem fairly suspicious about how those buildings came down, though, and I tend to think explosives could be involved.

There is, of course, a mountain of disinfo and complex bullshit in the "9/11 Truth Movement". (Still using the quotes, I'm sure you've noticed.) But Jesus Man, get a grip.

And BTW, Dr. Emory's explaination was one of the worst I've ever heard for those collapses.

Anonymous said...

anon 12:55,

The "Earthquake Damage" hypothesis is often advanced by people who have never studied the collapses. Since it was not asserted by FEMA or NIST, I'll suppose it lacks credence with professionals.

People commonly make unjustified assumptions supporting the official story to protect their complacency. I, for one, had always assumed that the four attacks took place simultaneously so there was no time for NORAD to react. Learning that there was no air defense for an hour and a half was the beginning of my 9/11 awakewning.

Anonymous said...

I found this blog because of Bulge-gate. It was reassuring to know that there were other people who saw that during the debates and asked WTF? I guess we each choose our own conspiracies. 9/11 isn't really on my list, but it is interesting just the same. Somehow, it isn't as important to me as election thieves and political thugs.

While I may not agree with every conclusion reached here, I appreciate the hard work. Thank you.

.R.S.E.

Anonymous said...

A glance through the previous comments illustrates how divided and emotional we all get when confronted by an event as extraordinary as 911. As goes the old saw, "Extraordinary claims, require extraordinary proof." And before hackles go up, I think there have been questionable assertions from all directions on the fall of the towers.

This was an event that "stopped the world" as Carlos Casteneda's fictional Don Juan would say. It was an event far beyond any single person's ability to comprehend. (Think of the number of Phd.'s one would need to sort this out: engineering, physics and a dozen others.) And it is also an event that is so compelling that some answer has to be found. This conflict is further complicated by information overload, confirmation bias and the lack of common method for sorting information from disinformation.

"Conspiracy theories" can sometimes rise to the level of probable cause, so I think negative associations with this term are unfortunate. But, I think various theories regarding this event have entrenched themselves in the american psyche because any explanation is better than none. We want a "cause and effect" for what would otherwise be disturbingly random.

Joshua Holland had a pretty good insight when he said that beliefs about 911 are in some ways a referendum on the Bush administration. We see our country, our constitution and our precious democracy circling in the drain. The destruction of the WTC buildings is both a compelling metaphor and a weighty anchor for the free floating anxiety caused by the collapse of America as we knew it.

I doubt we will ever know the truth and I even doubt that we would accept it as such given the chance. But then, I'm just a goat farmer.

Anonymous said...

All the praise for the blog is great--I'm sure Joseph would find it more meaningful if it was backed up by some donations. Once again, if I weren't literally selling plasma to pay rent, Joe could have lots of my money, even though I don't love every single last opinion on or analysis of a subject that he posts. Because Cannonfire = American journalism ≠ dead. Also, Jennifer ≠ dead. And I can't be the only one with those feelings. IT'S THE BUTTON ON THE LOWER RIGHT-HAND SIDE OF THE SCREEN. Let's all make friends with it.

Anonymous said...

This is the first time I've come across your blog and though we've both grown weary of the "truth" movement, likely for different reasons, I couldn't help but point out that you've oversimplified a point in order to make one.

Mr.Pound was a close family friend and I recall him around our house fairly often when I was a boy- the point is neither my grandfather, nor my father share your assessment of Pound's "admission" as you refer to it. He spent twelve years of his life locked away in an insane asylum though he was one of the most lucid and intelligent men to have ever crossed our threshold, and there were plenty in those days. He was accused of treason when he committed none and his only recantation was that his work had been negatively impacted by his candor about Jews, not his actual thoughts and feelings about them ever changed.

You seem like a honest man and you obviously are interested in the truth (forgive me for not using the capital "T" as is the habit of so many these days), but the truth isn't served by trying to convince people of something that simply did not occur, and in Pound's case, he never recanted his position about Jewish influence on Western culture by saying he "got it all wrong" nor did he ever say anything that I have ever read about the Jews "ruling the world". Such comments are equally misleading and lacking in factual basis, something I can't imagine you'd want to perpetuate judging from your post.

I hope I have not offended you, I simply wanted to add what I know to be the truth first hand. Ezra Pound stood by his beleifs until the end of his life, whether there is truth in them is for the living to decide.

Joseph Cannon said...

I may have to rewrite that bit. A few years, I helped my gf research a college paper on madness in literary men. It struck us as odd that the one writer who actually did time in the nuthouse probably was the least nuts, although he certainly held opinions that I consider foolish and wrong-headed.

(He was lucky to end up as he did. Lord Haw Haw fared worse.)

At any rate, somewhere along the line I found on online source that said Pound had recanted toward the end of his life. I must confess, though, that I cannot find the site I used. Wikipedia quotes Allan Ginsberg as quoting Pound to the effect that there was a recantation in the 1960s, but apparently letters from the time period testify otherwise.

I don't think Ginsberg would lie about such a thing -- what would be his motive for doing so? -- but the face Pound showed him may not have been his only face. So perhaps his feelings were complex and variable on a daily basis?

Anonymous said...

The Pound issue jumped out for me too, Joseph, because on its face the alleged recantations of a man who may have been trying to get out of the nut house should be taken skeptically.

Also the issue of knowing what you don't know. I'll never forget the video of Jacob Brownowski squatting in the ashes of Dachau pleading "Always think you might be wrong."

I don't believe that the WTC planes were giant holograms and I'm not going to spend any time trying to prove that they were or weren't, but I don't know that they weren't. About all we really know about that day is that the official explanations don't add up, and we need a new investigation.

Joseph Cannon said...

Not that anyone is reading this far down, but Pound had been freed from the loony bin for some time when Ginsberg visited him. As near as I can tell, Ginsberg is the source for the recantation story. I wish he were still alive so I could ask him about it.

The Exra Pound story sure is sad. Most American fascists/hard-core Jew-haters have been notable only for their politics. They never did anything else noteworthy. George Lincoln Rockwell, Gerald L.K. Smith, Richard Butler, Wesley Swift, Myron Fagan, yada yada yada -- third rate minds with Third Reich delusions.

But Pound was a genius. Man...what HAPPENED?