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Monday, July 24, 2017

Against the Alt Left

You're not going to read the full post that has been germinating in my mind for the past couple of days. That post would take about five hours to write, and I haven't the time to invest. This post is the two hour version.

It's a post about the Alt Left and the dangers posed by the BernieBros. In other words, the familiar Roger Stone "split the Dems" strategy continues.

I have no doubt that the Alt Lefties would express sheer fury at anyone who suggested that their movement was supported (and probably funded) by the Trumpists -- even though it has been established beyond rational debate that Russia manipulated the Bernie movement with a fake news tsunami.

The supporters of Shirley Chisolm would have felt the same fury in 1972 had anyone made a similar suggestion about her movement. The supporters of John Anderson would have felt the same fury had anyone made a similar suggestion about his movement. Nevertheless, it is a matter of provable historical fact that both the Chisolm and Anderson movements received Republican money and aid. I've documented this history in several previous posts. (I will also freely admit that the Libertarian Party has received covert aid from the Democrats.)

Take a good look at the smirking, arrogant young assholes pictured above and discussed here. Their names are Matt Christman, Felix Biederman and Will Menaker, and their podcast is called Chapo Trap House. They consider themselves the Breitbart of the left -- as though mirroring Breitbartism were among the desiderata.

From an article in New Republic which has attracted a lot of attention:
“However, to the pragmatists out there and the people who don’t like purity in politics, yes, let’s come together. But get this through your fucking head: You must bend the knee to us. Not the other way around. You have been proven as failures, and your entire worldview has been discredited. You bend the knee to us and then let’s fucking work together to defeat these things, not with fucking means testing or market-based solutions but with a powerful social democratic message.”
Bend the knee? Bend the fucking knee?

The hilarious fact of the matter is that these smirking young fuckfaces think they know politics. Yet that's how they talk: "Bend the knee." They think that line will attract people outside their narrow group of likeminded individuals.

Talk about idiocy!

I've been blogging since 2004, and my own record is clear. I'm basically an old hippie at heart, and I've been poor for most of my life. I grew up with left values. In 1980, I supported Teddy Kennedy and then -- to my lasting shame -- voted for Barry Commoner. (Now that was purity.) A couple of years later, I worked a bit for Gore Vidal's campaign. I marched against the Reagan administration's covert wars in Central America. I started this blog to oppose the Iraq war. I've supported single-payer since the 1970s, when it was called National Health Insurance. In the past, I've referred to the New Republic as the Newly Republican.

But.

If THOSE arrogant young fuckfaces from Clapo Trapo take over the Democratic Party, I won't vote for it. I'll run my wrists through a table saw before my hand pulls the lever for any of their candidates.

I will not vote for any candidate they endorse. EVER. Not even if the opposition is running on a pledge to ignite World War III just for the hell of it. Apocalypse is preferable to bending the knee.

You want to know how strongly I feel about this? Let's put it this way. If I myself were running against Donald Trump in 2020 -- and this is just a thought experiment: I will never run for even the lowliest public office -- to repeat: If I myself were to run against Donald Trump in 2020, and if I myself won the nomination, and if I myself were the only thing standing in the way of Trump attaining four more years -- I would step aside if I were endorsed by any of those Chapo Trap House smirking young arrogant fuckfaces.

Why? Because anyone who gets their endorsement must be shit. And also because they made that "Bend the knee" remark, which you know damned they will never retract.

The Alt Left is not a new phenomenon. The Nazis would not have attained power if the German Alt Left of that era had not continually sought to undermine the Social Democrats (whom they considered their main enemy) and the centrist parties. The German left preferred the triumph of Nazism -- which they considered the lesser of two evils -- to governance by the Social Democrats.

How did that work out?

Here's a more recent example from American politics: When Bill Clinton spent enormous amounts of political capital trying to pass health care legislation in the 1990s, the left lambasted him ferociously because he would not get behind single-payer (which he knew would never pass). The left went crazy. Those of you old enough to recall those years may remember that leftwingers like Alexander Cockburn fastened on many of the right's conspiracy theories about Clinton.

In Los Angeles, you couldn't attend any lefty political function without hearing nonsense about Whitewater and Vince Foster. I'm sure the situation was similar elsewhere.

The left-wing manure-spreaders thought they were being incredibly hip when they parroted the far right's conspira-crap. The Alt Left of the 1990s did everything they could to besmirch the Clinton name -- and when you asked them why they were doing this, you would be told: "He didn't support National Health Insurance."

The result? Here's a bit of history most have forgotten.
The Wall Street Journal reported showing the same description of a health reform plan to focus groups with and without the Clinton label. Without the label, the plan won more than 70 percent support; with the label, approval dropped 30 to 40 points. It seems likely, therefore, that when polls asked for opinions about the "Clinton health plan," they tapped general feelings of confidence in President Clinton rather than preferences about the specifics of health policy. Would different decisions on alliances, cost containment, and other provisions have attracted more public support? Elite opinion might well have been affected, but I am not sure it would have made any difference to the public at large. In fact, some survey evidence suggests that although public support for the president's approach fell, it remained higher than support for any other tested alternative.
The defeat of reform has set off a festival of recriminations. Among the criticisms, one often hears two complementary I-told-you-so's. From the left: If only Clinton had endorsed single payer or an expansion of Medicare, he would have had a simpler plan, and by rallying the public against the insurance industry, he could have won. And then, from conservative Democrats: If only Clinton had endorsed the Cooper plan or some other more moderate proposal, we would have substantial reform today.

Since we cannot rerun history, these critics are safe from ever being disproved. However, no serious observer believes that Congress might have passed a national single-payer plan. Paul Wellstone, single-payer's leading advocate in the Senate, had only four cosponsors for his bill; reaching 50 votes, much less 60, was inconceivable. Some single-payer advocates acknowledged that congressional passage was implausible but thought the president should take the issue to the public in a populist campaign against special interests. However, the defeat of California's single-payer ballot initiative by a margin of 73 to 27 percent should put to rest the notion that a popular uprising against the insurance industry was ready to be awakened. The supporters of single payer enjoyed the illusion that their plan was simpler and more popular only because the Clinton plan was the lightning rod for criticism.
Did you catch that last part? It's important.

In 1994, there was a single-payer plan in California called Proposition 186. This proposition passed the Alt Left purity test. The Alt Lefties of that period had long insisted that THE PEOPLE would support a National Health Insurance policy the moment such a proposal was placed before them. (For the past forty years, Alt Lefties have assured us that every ranch hand in Montana is an Emma Goldmanite at heart.)

The Alt Lefties had no evidence for this presumption -- but boy, they sure had smugness aplenty. Their capacity for self-delusion was matched only by their appetite for anti-Clinton conspiracy theories. And what happened? In true-blue California, the one state that should have been receptive to such a measure, 1994's Prop 186 suffered a blistering defeat.

The smug, arrogant, progressive-purist Alt Lefties stood revealed as bullshit-peddlers par excellence. They had insisted that everyone in America was desperate to get behind something like Prop 186, even though that idea couldn't even get 30 percent support in fucking California.

That's not the part that bothered me. What bothered me was this: When 186 failed spectacularly, the Alt Lefties at that time refused to take blame. They were so fucking arrogant they would not say "We misjudged the public" despite all the evidence against them. Your average Alt Lefty blamed Clinton, blamed capitalism, blamed the media, blamed anything and anyone except that guy in the mirror.

The current Alt Left is even guiltier of hubris. You can be sure that we're never going to get any kind of apology for that "bend the knee" remark. Like the Trumpers, your average Alt Lefty would rather slice off his own nipples with a potato peeler than ever utter the words "Gee, maybe I got it wrong."

Arrogance. Arrogance. ARROGANCE.

Like the Trumpers, the Alt Lefties are the living embodiments of the Dunning/Kruger effect. They all have egos more fragile than eggshells, and they compensate for their insecurities with bombast and thuggish behavior.

Take the $15 an hour minimum wage, Bernie's signature issue -- the main cudgel he used against Hillary. (And by the way, using that cudgel was in accordance with Roger Stone's plan, as published in 2014.) The Seattle experiment has proven this idea to be wrongheaded. I'm very sorry to admit that fact: Frankly, the failure in Seattle upended my own preconceptions about the minimum wage. Besides, I live in a household that could benefit from such legislation.

But that's the difference between a guy like me and a dirtbag leftist: I'm willing to utter the words "Gee, maybe I was wrong about that."

Alt Lefties, like the Alt Rightists, can't bring themselves to do such a thing. They can't admit that when Hillary and Bernie debated the minimum wage, Hillary was right -- Seattle proves her right. Those arrogant young fucks have such fragile egos that they cannot admit to even the slightest degree of error. That's why it is perfectly fair to accuse both the Alt Right and the Alt Left of "Dominance Politics."

Whenever I see an Alt Lefty combine ignorance, brutishness and jackass self-confidence, I'm reminded of Sarah Palin. In 2008, Palin was blissfully convinced that she had what it takes to lead the country even though she didn't know who fought whom during WWII. I wonder how the current crop of Alt Lefties would fare if they had to take the same history quiz that I'd like to administer to Palin or Trump?

Y'see, I do know history. Not as well as I would like: Of the reading of books, there is no end -- and the more I learn, the more ignorant I feel. Still, after more than a half-century of bookworming, a few basic facts have managed to seep into my obdurate skull.

I've already cited the sorry tale of the Alt Left in Weimar. I've already cited the sorry tale of the Alt Left in the Clinton era. If pressed, I can cite many, many similar tales.

Think of the people who could have had health insurance since the mid 1990s but didn't get it, thanks in large part to sabotage from the so-called progressives of that era. Study the history of how the German left joined forces with the Nazis in eradicating the potency of the Social Democrats and the center parties. Read up on the American Alt Lefties of the 1930s, who did everything they could to weaken FDR (on the grounds that he was just another capitalist elitist). And while you're at it, think about how much happier Russian history would have been if Kerensky had been given a fair chance.

The Alt Lefties have racked up quite a body count. They have literally killed millions. Those smirking, arrogant young BernieBro fuckfaces are killers. Historically speaking, they (and their intellectual forebears) are the ones who have failed -- again and again and again.

The Clapo Trapos refer to their supporters as Grey Wolves, in non-ironic reference to the Turkish fascist movement, which they seem to admire. It's one of those "jokes" that's not really a joke.

I know full well what the progressive purists would say if they read these words. They're extremely predictable -- yet every time they give me their rap, they seem to be under the impression that I've never heard such words before. They keep telling me that they are going to blow my mind with some new new new arguments -- and every single time, they hit me over the head with a bag filled with cliches. In fact, I first heard the Alt Left yada-yada long before the current crop of smirking arrogant young assholes were born.

I even fell for their spew. For a while.

You'll never again catch me throwing away my vote on a Barry Commoner.

Lord H.A. H.A. I can't prove that that the "Clapo Trapo" folks are getting money from the Trumpists. But in order to assess them, let us learn from the tale of H.A. Goodman -- who was granted full leave to spread lies about Hillary Clinton in Salon and other "progressive" forums.

Have you seen the kinds of comments his videos now attract?

In Goodman's world, Hillary is still the devil incarnate, and the election never ended.  Yesterday's video bears the euphonious title: "CLINTON EMAIL BREAKING NEWS: James Comey Will Help Christopher Wray Indict Clinton." Here are some sample comments:
Comey wont roll, the Clinton body count is too high
When us Trump supporters were chanting, "Lock her up! Lock her up!"... We were NOT asking him to, we were telling him to.
I do believe that the democrats are done. They don't have a message. I just want to see something moving into the direction of investigations into wire tapping that will bring down obama Brennan Clapper Rice etc. I want to see investigations into clintons emails and pay for play. I am little worried about mueller he is just as corrupt as Hillary.
Cant they just send a terminator from the future etc. I really wish those clintons never existed.
Enough with soft-coddling FRIGGING CRIMINALS!!!!! Comey is guilty as sin. The punishment needs to fit the crime. NO DEALS, NO BARGAINS. MY GOD, in what reality are these people living?????
No deals for criminals! Can I get an AMEN???????
Can Trump do a cease and desist on the Obama Library which is where they are starting to hide information can we shut it down before it's even complete
Trump can shut this down with an execuative order.
HA is an awesome reporter! "Another brick on my load " love HA's analogies. Fucking Comey. Piece of shit liar!
You mean she didn't use a private server for convenience??? Lying snake, don't know how can anybody still support her? You need to be lying underneath a rock not to know there's nothing worse in Washington than Killary
And so on. And remember: Goodman was allowed to romp and scamper all over progressiveland. In large measure, the current incarnation of the Alt Left is an outgrowth of Goodmanism.

I'm reminded of the naive young lefties of the late 1980s -- the left-leaning anti-Reagan kids who considered themselves opponents of "corporate Democrats" like Mondale and Dukakis. In 1987, they fastened onto the Christic Institute lawsuit, which functioned as their introduction to the insidious attractions of conspiracy theory. By 1994, many of these same former young "progressives" were supporting the Gingrich revolution in Congress: "Maybe this new crop will bring about REAL CHANGE!"

Yes: Self-proclaimed lefties voted for the Gingrichites because they thought that the really important thing was bringing down Clinton, whom they considered the embodiment of covert evil. I saw this devolution happen to people I knew.

It was an old story even then. Young, idealistic left-wingers will always think that they are the hippest of the hip, and they always turn out to be incredibly easy to fool -- and to co-opt.
Comments:
The nation is so fucked. Just watched Donald Trump speaking to the Boy Scouts of America in what is one of the most rank, partisan exercises I have seen in a long time. He trashes Obamacare, gets the scouts to boo Hillary Clinton and ties scouting goals to his own personal success. This nut job never ceases to amaze me. What is also disturbing are the comments with the video. Most singing his praises. These people would not recognise fascism if it hit them in the face. I had a hope that the scout leader standing next to him might have grabbed the mike and called him out as unfit for office and an insult to scouting values, but no such luck. Yet much of the public is in awe of this man. God help us.
 
So I'm not crazy to conclude that "leftist" are just ideological idiots who as rigid in their worldview and detached from reality as any crazy right-winger? In the never fucking ending of the 2016 primary, the Berners continue to completely ignore reality. The latest iteration is that Hillary didn't have a message and then say Democrats should stand for stuff (like anti-trust regulations) she of course already proposed. When you point this out, they say, well, she was too wonky and didn't paint it in big broad strokes. The Berners also claim, dismissing mountains of contrary evidence, that all of the Democrats problems can be solved with an economic message and Trump's nonsensical platitudes about bringing back the jobs is why he won. They also gaslight whenever you point out that Bernie wants to do a hostile takeover of the party and is deliberately trying to divide it by claiming that it's actually Hillary supporters who are dividing the party by opposing Bernie.

I'm almost at the point where I no longer take anyone seriously that takes Bernie seriously (like Chris Hayes or Matt Yglesias). If you can't tell how dishonest and harmful Bernie is, even you otherwise make a lot of sense, it's hard not to conclude you are a leftist ideologue that will make endless excuses for anyone who plays to your leftist fantasies. You're basically a dupe.
 
As much as I longed for a biting editorial cartoon eviscerating the dirtbags, I'm sure that would've taken even more than 5 hours...and yeah, we needed the history lessons.
 
I was working on my own article for DailyPUMA about the crazy Sanders reddit spamming of articles that are not well disguised "where should the democrats go" Sanders clap trap and a crazy screed against Hillary Clinton. The ramping up may have to do with Kamala Harris attending a fundraising meeting with key democrat fundraisers regarding 2020. Both Sanders operatives and apparently Harris operatives are jockeying for position and at least on the Sanders side, Hillary Clinton will be the target. I put my article on hold for several days but should finish it.
 
Alessandro, if that forthcoming piece of yours does what you say it does, I'd be honored to place it here. (Presuming we do not have a couple of INSANELY busy news days demanding the full attention of both of us.) I can't promise a massive number of extra readers, but every little bit helps, right?

I've been afraid to look at Reddit. They used to have an anti-Bernie subreddit, but I think it is gone now.

Clinton-hate has become this nation's disease. Frankly, I was always kind of lukewarm (at best) to the Clintons myself -- I supported Bob Kerry in 1992 and John Edwards in 2008 -- but when antipathy to the Clintons reaches the level of psychosis (as is happening again right now), I have no choice but to defend them.
 
The Left principles are the most decent and morale of ideas there is, but leftists are not so much. They are the most destructive, selfish, delusional, lazy, cruel and dangerous people. I know because it’s my tribe. Pick a region, pick a decade and look for the damage the alt-left did. It’s well documented what capitalism did, but it will surprise everyone if they look closely at the damage done by the left in the world. Look at all the dictators in the world and evaluate their progression and the path they took. Almost always at some point there was hordes of leftist as their advisors. Who in most cases turned out to be thieves who used lies to get wealth and power. Some may not agree with me, but I blame them for legitimizing military coup as a regime change method in developing countries. One aspect that always disgusted me about them is that they have little loyalty to their countries and its citizens, the party and Soviet(in the past) was where their loyalties cemented. The most stark example is how they are enjoying Dump in the white House. How could a citizen who is benefiting from this country and it’s resources in every aspect of his/her life, find it funny the humiliation of what is happening now. I tried to find a reason for this psychosis they have as far the Clintons concern, my only explanation is that they afraid the Clinton may end up accomplishing their agenda without their help. So their bread and butter gone. So the sabotage, they are not even ashamed to team up with alt-right to accomplish it.
 
May I coin the acronym "SAYA" for Smirking, Arrogant Young Asshole?
 
Mouthbreathing neckbeards.
 
Gee, Joe. Tell us how you really feel :0).

This subject came up in a post at DU. Like you, my head exploded when I read:

"You must bend the knee to us."

Are you f**king kidding me? Liberal Democrats should immediately run, not walk in the opposite direction. This is nothing more than Bannon/Breitbart wearing a different mask, The Burn the House Down Brigade of the Left giving free hugs to the Deplorables of the Right.. Perfect together.

So familiar, too. Can anyone forget the likes of Susan f**cking Sarandon proclaiming Hillary the 'lesser of two evils,' how Trump's election was a 'good thing' because it would spur The Revolution. Or Jill Stein counting out Hillary's many sins and crimes? Or Bernie and his devotees jumping on the e-mail serious train?

How's that 'good thing' working out for everyone?

These people are not our friends; they're simply mindless ideologues willing to watch the Republic destroyed to recreate one in their own image, the romantic notion of the phoenix rising from the ashes.

Stupidity and arrogance are a dangerous, destructive mix. We're witnessing the results every day.

Peggysue
 
There are a few things very wrong with this article. Again I have to repeat for some inane reason that Hillary Clinton cheated in the primaries. There is hard proof of that that the MSM has ignored. I analyze polling data for a living and here in MA there is real proof that the votes were hacked. Several counties where Bernie was ahead, suddenly shifted to Clinton at the last minute in districts that had been polling for Sanders and had demographics way more favorable to him. They also all had one other things in common in that they all had electronic voting. In this state, and a dozen others, where the exit polls do NOT match, the questionable results were all from electronic voting sites and all went for Hillary when they shouldn't have. Look up this if you don't believe me. Clinton is crooked beyond belief and why people are still having a cult like following, very similar to Trump voters, is staggeringly stupid. Bernie is being slammed by the elites who do not want someone like him in power. The bank suit against his wife appears to be nonsense from the facts I have been able to get. The whole thing looks like a hit piece. YOU ARE BEING DECEIVED BY THE VERY PEOPLE YOU PROCLAIM TO HATE!

Second, there is NO evidence that raising the minimum wage hurts businesses and plenty of evidence it does the opposite. If you are referring the that garbage study by the University of Washington and others that say raising wages kills jobs, empirical evidence suggest otherwise. There are seventy years of data that shows this to be false and literally dozens of competent studies prove this. Likewise to anyone who lives or works in Seattle will tell you the same as many a business leader or politician from the area have said. You can even do the research yourself. Go to Craigslist and look up low level jobs in the Seattle area. Then check out any other city in the country. What you will find is a physical list proving there are more low level jobs like waitressing, retail and medical help than any other city in America. Again, look it up. This has been like this for the whole year. I've been checking. To say the minimum wage kills jobs is to declare the sky orange. I can see with my own eyes it isn't true.

Lastly, The German left was tricked into supporting Nazis. Hitler called his party socialist but it was in name only literally to fool people into thinking they were a left wing party but that was a masquerade. Once in power their true colors showed and they went full right wing fascists on people, even arresting the very socialists who voted for them and placed them right alongside the Jews and other undesirables. The Nazis were NEVER socialistic. This is the same power play the GOP is doing today. Quite literally, the modern day Republican is a carbon copy of the National Socialist movement of Germany. The rally at the Boy Scout Jamboree was right out of Triumph of the Will. As for FDR, those Alt-left people were full on communists. Not the same as the make up of the alt left of today, who are not much better unfortunately but not communists.

Your hatred for Bernie is misplaced and misled. You are all being told things that are untrue. This blog proves that too many of you are falling for it. Everything you are being told right now is filled with lies from all sides. Do the research yourself and see. The Clinton's are part of the problem and their corporate stance. Bernie and his kind are our last hope. I am truly sorry that more people can't see that. It's why this country is rapidly approaching it's end.


 
Fuck you, warmonger. Get out of here. Peddle your bullshit elsewhere. The Clintons are the most honest people in American politics, and Bernie is despicable monster, as I've demonstrated in many previous posts. If you had any proof for your claims, you would have published it and you would be famous. Regnery would have rewarded you handsomely.

You know little or nothing about the German rise to power. The German left parties became defaco Hitler enablers not because the Nazis had the word "socialist" in their name but because they had the same contemptuous attitude toward the Social Democrats that assholes like you have toward the Democrats. Have you considered taking a college course or reading a book...?

Get out. You will never be published here again.


 
Nevertheless, it is a matter of provable historical fact that both the Chisolm and Anderson movements received Republican money and aid.

Interestingly enough, both Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton received Republican money and aid in 2008 - so I'm not sure there's much significance to that.
 
Propertius:

It's possible they did in a Republican effort to divide the Democrats. But because Hillary has character, she didn't take the bait and put an end to the PUMA shit and any other divisions right away. So it didn't work. Obama would've done the same had he lost. But Bernie and others did not. Their egos are so big that they think they are more important than the Democratic Party and resisting the Republicans, so they have no problem accepting support from Republicans.
 
Joe,

I stumbled on your blog last year, but haven't commented until now. Cannonfire has been absolutely essential reading since the election, and this is one of your most important posts to date. I listened to a couple of those Chapo Trap House episodes. These are the kind of "progressives" who can't talk about the possibility of a Trump cabinet member committing treason without saying something like "Personally, I've always been in favor of treason!" and guffawing.

I've been shocked and frankly distressed to see so many of the people I thought I agreed with falling over themselves to apologize for Trump, attack Clinton, and eagerly parrot a bunch of anti-Democratic propaganda lines they read on worthless sites like Counterpunch (a site which used to publish Holocaust deniers). Almost every single prominent leftist/progressive writer or thinker has been absolutely awful on this issue -- unforgivably bad, really. There's a mountain of evidence to support the Putin government's hacking the election, but the same nitwits who think the DNC "stole the nomination" from Sanders through some never-quite-explained plot just bleat "conspiracy theory" whenever you bring up the Putin-Trump connection. We finally had a coup in this country, led by right-wing maniacs, and the Alt Left (as you so aptly describe them) decided to side with them against the Democrats. I'll never take any of them, and I mean any of them, seriously about anything ever again.

There's only one point I would have added to your post: When the Alt Left pretends that they're sincerely worked up about "neoliberalism" (a word they use to describe any policy put forward by any Democrat except Sanders and Warren), they're flat-out lying. These doofs don't approve of any Democratic president. They hate them all, because the only political material they read is glib, ahistorical trash. Mention Jimmy Carter, and an Alt Left twerp will start reciting some litany of Carter's supposed crimes he read in one of those Noam Chomsky interview books. And, of course, they hate John F. Kennedy. Thanks to years of lying by the likes of Chomsky and Alex Cockburn, today's leftists have contempt for the most beloved American president of the 20th century (and, as Jim DiEugenio and Jim Douglass have shown, the most genuinely liberal and far-sighted leader we ever had). They don't actually care about liberal principles or even democracy; they just hate the Democrats.

Anyway, keep up the excellent work.
 
Mr. Cannon, do you agree that Noam Chomsky is a liar, or that JFK was "the most genuinely liberal and far-sighted leader [America] ever had"? I don't agree with either of those assertions.
 
You may find a perfect example in Mojahedeen Khalgh.It is ironic that Republicans keep trying to sell them as THE opposition party to the Islamic Republic of Iran.No one in Iran would ever follow them after the treason they committed. M
 
Amelie, in many years of listening to Chomsky, I've caught him in only one out-and-out lie. In the early 1990s, he kept saying that JFK was responsible for the death of Patrice Lumumba, who was killed shortly before Kennedy took office, although the death was confirmed AFTER he took office. There is a photo of Kennedy on the phone at the very moment he got the news; JFK looks horrified.

We need to understand that the Alt Left of 1960-63 despised Kennedy. Chomsky comes from that tradition, as did a number of other lefties of that era. They were annoying, but most of them are no longer with us.

That said, Chomsky's breadth of knowledge puts him quite a few cuts above the other Alt Lefties of his generation. I've always thought he was worth listening to, even when I disagreed. I could never say the same of (say) Cockburn or Hitchens, whose left-to-right transition exemplifies the dangers of Clintonphobia.

FDR was the most liberal and far-sighted leader we ever had. But Kennedy was far more liberal than some of his Alt Left critics would ever admit.



 
In 2008 Hillary in NH warned the nation,pleaded, that politics is not a game. The scums on both sides decided,smartly for them, to focus on her passionate delivery and not what she said. If I say I hated them for that it will be the understatement of the year. As a result voters continued to live in that world where politics, voting and living don't exist on the same plane. To my knowledge no other politician ventured there, because treating voters as a functioning adult is risky. 2016 proved it.
From now on the definition of deplorable should be: anyone who didn't vote for Hillary on 2016 from both sides.
 
warmonger, please do keep repeating (elsewhere, since you have ceased to amuse Joseph with your long-winded nonsense) the nutty assertion that old white man Sanders lost because of "crooked Hillary" and not because he could not connect with voters of color. If the mere look of your dense breathless prose doesn't clue people to beware before diving in, repeatedly whining that you "have to repeat" will do the trick.

If you do take Joe's advice to crack some books, please *don't* start with one on grammar:

"The Clinton's (sic) are part of the problem and their corporate stance. Bernie and his kind are our last hope. I am truly sorry that more people can't see that. It's why this country is rapidly approaching it's (sic) end."

Better writing would destroy a good deal of the amusement in following your merry-go-round of thought. How do those Clintons manage to be only part of their own corporate stance?

That stirring conclusion was where you (and your light saber) really shined. I could hear the theme song! da-da-da-daaa-DUM, da-da-da-daaa-DUM: Bernie (and his kind!) our Last Hope! Please add random Capitals for Emphasis to your Arguments...and for Our Kind's more complete Enjoyment. Thanks, and bye!

 
Joe, the Alt-Left is also appallingly misogynist, this generation perhaps the worst in my lifetime (I'm in my early 50's old enough to know how the 2nd wave of feminism was sparked, in part, from the misogyny in the alt-left of the 1960's... this lot is even worse that the 2000 election 20 somethings)

This very recent incident involving a very nasty personal attack on Melissa McEwan of Shakesville is an appalling example of Chapo House's rank misogyny. Liss is probably the best of the Gen X progressive Democratic bloggers (I certainly think so)

http://www.shakesville.com/2017/07/presenting-left.html

You and Shakesville are my daily blogger news stops. From different prospectives you two are the most through in your work and the most committed to the true progressive wing of the Democratic party.

Ciarda
 
Amen. I've been there a long time. Any blogger, pundit or "news reporter" who accepts conventional view of St. Slanders has no new insights to offer. I've cut out 99 percent of blogs I used to read. I abhor, detest and despise these people.
 
JFK gets no respect from younger generation of liberals and Dems. They either ignore him or disparage him. I think he and Obama resemble each other strongly in that they were well versed in history and could connect dots on many levels when they made decisions. I don't really get the leftist hate.
 
I call them "WouldaStalkers".
 
"In 2008 Hillary in NH warned the nation,pleaded, that politics is not a game."

Anon 6:57 - I was there, volunteering for that typical male Edwards, posing as a populist. That was my turning point. I always liked Hillary, but felt Edwards might move our party more to the grassroots and working class. My eyes were opened on the ground in NH.

Edwards was acting like the typical privileged asshole, keeping people waiting while he was probably enjoying both the dalliance and the control.

So I left his rally, refused to wait any longer, went back to the hotel to swim...er, sit in the whirlpool tub. There was an elderly black woman from Harlem in the hot tub, brought to NH by her dutiful son, who stood on guard at the edge of the water, fully dressed in a suit! He was for Obama, but his mama was over the moon for Hillary.

When I was on the streets canvasing, I can tell you that the streets were filled with passionate women for Hillary. Locals. Door after door I heard the same. The street presence for Obama and Ron Paul was slickly organized, all young white males, and imported from other states. The Edwards team were nitwits, freaking out about the rumor Obama was going to take NH. They didn't listen to those of us on the street talking to actual people.

The Hillary volunteers were some of the most informed people I spoke with. I was naturally irate by the news coverage screeching "It Cries." I came to stand staunchly behind Hillary, for reasons more than simple obdurance...though that was some tasty icing on the cake!

 
The one good thing about the Chapo Trapo guys is that they are so totally obvious about being the jerks they are. No need to waste time taking their measure. Trap is exactly right; in the ordinary English sense.
 
The right has spent a half century heaping lies of abuse, disrespect and hatred upon JFK's memory, and it has been hard to completely avoid hearing it. Let's call it what it is, psychological warfare. Smoke, fire, etc. Deny the enemy (Dems) any good folks in their history. The better to build up that mannequin, St. Ronald of Dementia.

And the left. Chomsky's notion was that he would take no interest in the topic of the assasination because it would make no difference if the Warren Commission were wrong. A rather odd point of view for a guy who spent so much time digging up facts, back in the old days when that was hard to do. Besides, JFK was just a cold warrior no different from Nixon. Strange how that line keeps turning up.

So "questions" get raised from the usual directions.

Anyone who'd like to know about JFK's outlook and decency should really read the book by James Douglass, _JFK: Why he died and why it still matters_. Many documents have become available over the years, it's important to keep up, and Douglass has. I agree with J.D.'s assessment, above.
 
The only thing I am willing to bend my knee to do is to kick those smirking bastards in the teeth.

And if that fails to knock their teeth out, follow it up with a Louisville Slugger.

Fuck you callow sons of bitches sideways with a rusty chainsaw, and may your judge in the afterworld be Rod Serling.

I apologize to Joe Cannon if this is too profane.
 
These three brocialist punks reek of white male privilege.

(Disclosure: I am also pale and male.)

I expect 10 years from now, they'll be wingnuts.
 
Excellent book. Can't say that enough.
 
Ivory Bill: good call on the white privilege. After reading your comment, I was reminded of Josh Marshall's description of the Bundy bund activities at the Malheur Wildlife Refuge, etc: White Privilege Art. An ever-useful category of description now.

Big Guy: Yes, James Douglass is a rare sort of author in the assassination realm, a deeply humane person who has no cynicism.

 
Sorry for a typo. Wish I'd caught it sooner.

Josh Marshall's coined the phrase, White Privilege Performance Art.
 
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