Comments on CANNONFIRE: The sex magick of Jesus Christ

I have to thank you again, Fudd. The video on that...

2008-03-24T11:44:00.000-07:00

I have to thank you again, Fudd. The video on that site shows a bit from a performance by Simon Rattle, and it is amazingly good. Much of the rest of it seems to be on YouTube.

Did you know Mahler wrote that one "for the drawer"? He had no real expectation of ever seeing it performed, since his First had gone over poorly.

"The gospels were written years after his "death"....

2008-03-24T11:15:00.000-07:00

"The gospels were written years after his "death"...

Wow! Really? I never heard that before. Gosh.

"and while most people will argue that there's "proof" of Jesus existence..."

Most people would do no such thing. Most scholars would not. And that includes the scholars who are atheists or irreligious (as I believe Ehrman, mentioned in a couple of earlier posts, now is).

Fudd, I was grateful to read Horton on Mahler. A couple of points. Horton writes...

"There is little doubt that for most of the converts, the adoption of a new religion was a matter of political and social convenience rather than faith. That may be the case with Mahler as well. His famous wife Alma joked with him about his conversion, but after his death, she insisted in the face of all doubters that he was “christgläubig”—a Christian believer."

I'm not sure Mahler's conversion was entirely for political reasons. His only religious training was Catholic, and he excelled in religious studies, being indifferent to most other subjects (except music, obviously). When asked about his religion, Mahler would always answer "I'm a musician." Meaning, THAT was his religion.

Alma was a real piece of work. She became violently anti-Semitic and pro-Hitler while married to her third husband, Franz Werfel, who was, like Mahler, a Jew with an interest in Catholicism. I think she resented the fact that her marriage to a Jew required her to escape from Europe.

After Werfel's death, she always styled herself as Mahler's widow (even though she had treated Mahler like crap). Her book about their years together is not trustworthy. You can see why she would try to "rewrite" Mahler's religion.

Horton recommends the second Solti performance, which is very good indeed. I might favor Berstein.

jesus would not require that he be historical, onl...

2008-03-24T10:47:00.000-07:00

jesus would not require that he be historical, only his followers require the tangible symbol.

i also doubt the man would require belief in his resurrection, as he likely did not (believe it or do it).

he seemed to live his life as neither symbols nor resurrection mattered.

in any case, not to divert, but here is what horton offers up for today.

being the mahler fan, joseph, thought you might appreciate (and the perhaps cruise his site).

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2008/03/hbc-90002723

"But if I offer criticism of Barack Obama..."I'm s...

2008-03-24T07:51:00.000-07:00

"But if I offer criticism of Barack Obama..."

I'm surprised, I was expecting you to present us the proof that Obama is a secret Muslim and Al-Qeada manchurian candidate.

Otherwise, Jesus is not an historical person. The gospels were written years after his "death" and while most people will argue that there's "proof" of Jesus existence, when you really look at what's available, there's not much (apart from 1 or 2 "mentions" in Roman history book)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

Yeah! Where's Obama's sex majick??? All kidding as...

2008-03-24T05:29:00.000-07:00

Yeah! Where's Obama's sex majick??? All kidding aside.. while i find this interesting... I can't help but think that this must pale in comparison to the sexual kung fu and Taois secrets of love (a la Mantak et Maneewan Chia), he might have known his bible, and how to be a star, but as for the magick... Joe, it's like watching a 1950s 3-D movie instead of an "Imax in 3-D"

It just occurred to me.On Easter Sunday, I talked ...

2008-03-24T02:59:00.000-07:00

It just occurred to me.

On Easter Sunday, I talked about ancient lore which holds that Jesus practiced sex magic. I expected cries of outrage.

Nothing of that sort occurred.

But if I offer criticism of Barack Obama...

To the person who brought up Jusino:Actually, I on...

2008-03-23T14:22:00.000-07:00

To the person who brought up Jusino:

Actually, I once wrote to him, but he never replied, for reasons that I suppose are understandable.

What I pointed out to him is that the 9th degree initiation ceremony in the OTO (written in the early 20th century) is the only text known to me -- before Jusino -- to identify the Magdalene with the Beloved Disciple.

Give Crowley credit. The man knew his Bible, and he as an original thinker.

Gary, I didn't thank you enough just now. I was re...

2008-03-23T13:46:00.000-07:00

Gary, I didn't thank you enough just now. I was reading Eusebius (or at least ABOUT Eusebius) recently and I suppose I just had a small synapse meld. You had me worried that I had misrecalled the story of JC and MM on the mountain, but a little double-checking proves that I got the story right.

You would be amazed how rapidly this piece was wri...

2008-03-23T13:35:00.000-07:00

You would be amazed how rapidly this piece was written, gary, and how much was from memory. (Some of those memories were pleasant, and I think you can guess which ones.) I could whip myself on an Easter morning for my mix-up, which I have fixed.

(Corrections like this are pretty much the best reason to have comments.)

By the way, I link to Jusino's piece.

Eusebius, Tertullian, Ignatius, Epiphanius, Hippol...

2008-03-23T12:51:00.000-07:00

Eusebius, Tertullian, Ignatius, Epiphanius, Hippolytus...and other proto-orthdox Christians were hell-bent on discrediting the early centuries' Ebionites, Marconites and Gnostics. The proto-orthodox made shit up, created forgeries, and over time destroyed the literature that supported these Christianities they called heresies. An easy to read overview of this is Ehrman's 'Lost Chistianities'. A classic scholarly work on this (and considered the best)is 'Orthodoxy & Heresy in Earliest Christianity' by Walter Bauer written in 1934 but translated to English in the early seventies. Bauer's Greek Lexicon is the standard for all students of New Testament Greek, so he is no slouch when it comes to ancient/biblical texts. Both authors point to the war for power in the early centuries that begat the 'lewd-sex' accusations against the Gnostics, since it is not supported at all in any of the little extant Gnostic literature.

Where are the studies from the NASA tests in zero ...

2008-03-23T11:46:00.000-07:00

Where are the studies from the NASA tests in zero g?

My own vast research - I must have spent 5 minutes...

2008-03-23T09:47:00.000-07:00

My own vast research - I must have spent 5 minutes using the google - indicates that it was Epiphanius not Eusebius who referenced "The Greater Questions of Mary."

Mr. Cannon, thank you so much (very much) for you...

2008-03-23T06:46:00.000-07:00

Mr. Cannon, thank you so much (very much) for your "tongue into cheek" (or penis into cheek) writings this Eastre morning. It sent me into a swoon whereupon I commingled with that parallel universe we call the inner net, whereupon I discovered this scholarship that is absolutely incredible (and in the metaphorical sense quite edible). It is all about the Magdalene Mystery of which I am a bit of a scholar, follower, and fellow traveler.

analysis or summery of this fascinating point of view is as follows as written by the father of said theory a, Ramon Jisino, a Catholic High school teacher.

I believe the portrayal of Mary Magdalene in the Nag Hammadi texts, particularly in the Gospel of Mary and the Gospel of Philip, is consistent with the portrayal of her in the New Testament's Gospel of John. In each case she is portrayed as the primary proclaimer of Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord.

A lot of people correctly point out that there is no biblical support for seeing Mary Magdalene as the "repentant whore." And they talk about her great role in the founding of the early church. But what was that role? The New Testament and the Nag Hammadi Library both agree on this -- she gave her life to Jesus as Savior. She was the first to proclaim the message of the Resurrected Lord. Every Easter, Christians celebrate the event that was first proclaimed by Mary Magdalene (John 20:18).

Mary Magdalene was first and foremost a Christian. In the Gospel of Mary Jesus is consistently referred to as Savior and Lord. This means that Mary Magdalene looked to Jesus for the forgiveness of sins.

The Nag Hammadi Library makes no mention of her having married Jesus or having had children with him. But her role as primary proclaimer of the gospel is revealed in the Nag Hammadi texts as well as the New Testament, most notably in the Gospel of John (the Fourth Gospel).

I do not view the documents of Nag Hammadi as being of equal value with the New Testament. I simply rely on those texts to show that there were at least some Christians in the earliest days of the Church that saw Mary Magdalene as the Beloved Disciple of Jesus.

Those who invoke the name of Mary Magdalene to try to undermine the message that she gave her life to proclaim are guilty of maligning her legacy. Her legacy is being the first to proclaim to the world that Jesus Christ has risen from the dead. To follow Mary Magdalene is to follow Jesus. For she points to Him as the Savior of the world.

It is in this light, in this spirit, that I offer my suggestion that, perhaps, she is the anonymous unsung voice of the Beloved Disciple of the Fourth Gospel and, therefore, its primary author.

Ramon K. Jusino
www.BelovedDisciple.org

But here is the pages you as an artist will find especially interesting

http://ramon_k_jusino.tripod.com/perugino.htm

MARY BY Paragino

http://ramon_k_jusino.tripod.com/magdalene.html

whoa! What a ride this AM. Kudos' to you and what a well written "spoof"?

Lawrence
(I wish you would write more stuff like this)

I also hope you have a very blessed Easter, even though it feels like it is too early this year but it has to do with the Spring equinox, the moon and the sun as well as the Son now doesn't it?

Sorry, but I couldn't find any of this in Eusebius...

2008-03-23T05:57:00.000-07:00

Sorry, but I couldn't find any of this in Eusebius on line; not a reference to The Greater Questions of Mary, nor mingling of fluids.
Can you provide a better link?