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Tuesday, December 20, 2011

More about those pro-Hillary robocalls

Riverdaughter has offered an interesting response to the mystery of the pro-Hillary robocalls, which we discussed in our previous post.
Cannon calls it a “ratfucking” operation and I would have to agree. ”the 99%” don’t endorse candidates and their occupation is based on the immorality of economic and social inequality. As far as it being a PUMA operation, I really couldn’t say because as far as this site is concerned, we stopped being PUMAs after the 2008 election. Yep, you can go back and check our attempts to organize. Pretty early on we discovered that the acronym PUMA had been poisoned by both sides of the aisle and we decided that evolution is a good thing. A group that fails to adapt to its environment doesn’t last very long. The environment was over the top Obama triumphalism. Now that the truth is out and lefties are recovering from their psychogenic fugue, we face an altogether different environment than three years ago and we must adjust accordingly.
I love this bit:
But the small evil group that is currently in charge of the Democratic party is being hand fed by the wealthy and well connected to do its bidding and one of the things this group is charged with doing is poisoning the memory and history of the Clinton era. It’s gotten so bad that every lefty media outlet has to genuflect to the idea that Clinton was a terrible president because of NAFTA, welfare reform and the repeal of Glass-Steagall. There’s very little balance or accuracy or even a soupcon of reflection. Yes, every one from Mark Schmitt to Sam Seder has to make the Clinton Presidency Disclaimer. But you know, people who were around to see it happen don’t buy that shit. It’s only the people who have some kind of investment in group dynamics who do. And the small evil group who runs the Democratic party knows how to yank that chain. What surprises me is even after those same people know how badly they were played in 2008, they are still willing to be played yet again as useful idiots for 2012 in order to not lose the love.
Damned straight. The revisionist bastards can't change the fact that the Clinton years were peaceful and prosperous while both Bush and Obama made things worse and worse and worse.

(Begin rant.)

Misleading revisionism has become a blight on this nation's intellectual life. Newt now tries to argue that it was the Republicans, not Clinton, who brought about prosperity. Similarly, Glenn Beck argues that Woodrow Wilson was a fiend from Hell. Christian fundamentalists claim that the founders of our nation were Christian fundamentalists, even though most of them were Deists and freethinkers. For generations, we've been told that the Civil War was fought for issues other than slavery. Even on the left, I keep running into oddballs who think that George H.W. Bush headed up the conspiracy to kill JFK -- a proposition for which there is no evidence whatsoever. There are many people who think that TARP was initiated by Obama, that 9/11 happened under Clinton, that Reagan responded to his recession by lowering taxes, that McCarthy was right all along, and that FDR engineered Pearl Harbor.

Worst of all, the people who believe this nonsense consider themselves hip. American politics has become a series of triumphs of comforting hallucinations over memory and the written record. One day, even Holocaust revisionism may be taught in college courses. When history turns into Silly Putty, anything is possible.

(End rant.)

Let's get back to what Riverdaughter has to say about the robocalls...
Anyway, I have no idea who is making the robocalls but think of it this way, robocalling is not cheap. And whoever is doing it is trying to tie Hillary to the Occupation, which will steadfastly resist being associated with any politician. Those of us who are political junkies know that Hillary is human and a politician, not some ethereal magical person who makes promises she has no intention or capability of keeping. That’s Obama’s thing, not Hillary’s. So, either this is a terribly misguided group with a lot of online donations who is highjacking the Occupation’s logo for its own benefit or it’s one or both of the two parties up to no good.
A writer for World Net Daily not only gives the robocalls publicity, he ties it to the Occupy movement.
Occupy's next move: Hillary in 2012?
The pro-Clinton campaign may not be tied to Occupy at all. It's possible Clinton supporters are utilizing Occupy ideology to call attention to their own cause.
Note the question-begging: The writer presumes that Clinton supporters are behind the robocalls, even though that's the very point in dispute. Petitio principii is the handmaiden of propaganda. For all we know, the robocalls could be the handiwork of the same folks who give us World Net Daily.

The robocalls have spread all across the country: Ohio, Arizona, Wisconsin, Maryland. Robocalls within California are illegal, but they keep occurring there nonetheless.

This is turning into the sort of weirdness that John Keel used to write about.

Meanwhile, Patrick Caddell (via Fox News and Politico) is pushing for a "draft Hillary" write-in campaign...
We argued in a recent Wall Street Journal op-ed piece that President Barack Obama should stand down and let Secretary of State Hillary Clinton run as the Democratic presidential nominee in 2012.

We are now calling on Democratic voters nationally — particularly in New Hampshire — to organize a write-in campaign for Clinton. This is something that New Hampshire voters have a long history of doing.

We advocate this Draft Hillary movement not because of the desire to make political mischief — but to put the country on the right course.
A day ago, my knee-jerk response would have been "Right on!" But the robocall mystery, which reeks of Republican ratfucking, forces me to think twice. Thrice.

Right-wing media sources have pushed the robocall story: Fox, WND, Politico, Forbes. Middle-of-the-road journalists have largely ignored it. The rightwingers want their readers to believe that the robocalls are the work of die-hard Hillary supporters -- yet the PUMA campaigners of 2008 seem utterly baffled by Hillary's "ground crew" stands accused of masterminding an effort which they know nothing about.
Well, I can guardedly say thus far, Joe has a tolerant comment-deleting policy.

So if I reflect that votes for real populists, pro-worker folks like Perot and Nader by the bulk of Two-Party system addicted "progressives" would probably have negated the need for the post, he might let it slide.
Cui Bono? Thats the key question. Everything else is speculation. To my mind this benefits the Republican cause as it would help split the Democrat vote. But my reasoning is hardly well thought out. Does anyone else have thoughts about who wins from this?

It's a divisive tactic that benefits the Republican campaign machinery and maybe Romney more than the others. Stirring up old wounds would be a signature Rovian move -- and Crossroads already has a gazillion bucks to play with.
I received one of those robocalls here in Texas. All I can say is there are a lot of Democrats who don't want to vote for Obama but can't vote for any of the insane GOP candidates.

Could be Caddell and Schoen raised some money to match their editorials.
I think it's the Repubs ultimately trying to divide the Dems by revving up the anti-Obama sentiments. It's about defeating Obama in 2012.
Good posts all around. I doubt sincerely any write-in campaign could succeed. All I will ad is that regardless of who is "behind" this or that campaign, it's impossible to generate mass response unless it taps into something genuine. When I went to NH in early 2008 primary season to campaign for Edwards, I was struck by the groundswell of eager support for Hillary. I tried to convey that to the numbskulls *running* Edwards' campaign, who were conceding to Zerobama before the vote, that there was no evidence on the street that Zero had already won that the contrary. The few on the street for Zero and RP were out-of-state young male zealots. The locals were out for either Edwards or Hillary. if NH mounts a serious drumbeat for Hillary, just remember it's heartfelt whether or not it was sparked by a group with ulterior motives.
This is getting complicated. Would a significant write-in for SOS Clinton or poll uptick for Clinton force Obama to listen a bit more to the base and say veto that crap detention bill? I suspect Rove/Romney myself but this could backfire and help real liberals by moving teh Precious off GOPer Lite.
I got one of the robocalls here in Maryland; it was on my voicemail. I was immediately suspicious of the source.
Interesting that one of the assholes from rump roast is a member.
Having thought about this and read through the comments, I have come to the conclusion that this is not so much a rat-fucking operation as a mind-fucking operation. And I think Prowlerzee gets it right:

if NH mounts a serious drumbeat for Hillary, just remember it's heartfelt whether or not it was sparked by a group with ulterior motives.

Ultimately, the motives of this group don't matter one iota.
Oh HO! Joe...

You didn't think we (more bold than you) conspiratologists would let that one slip by, did you?

Straw man/straw man/straw man, indeed.

By ridiculing the meme that GHWB was "in charge" of the JFK hit, are you actually trying to say that he wasn't involved, right up to his "vision thing"-impaired, bloodshot eyeballs?

If you do, then you need to chill out pronto, with a perception-clearing sea cruise.

On the "Zapata" or the "Barbara," of course. ;)

Your devoted reader,
Andy Tyme
Your PUMA sources aren't involved so it must be republicans???? What PUMA sources? Riverdaughter? She stopped being a PUMA years ago. You need better sources.

One of many commenters who have to use the "anonymous" tag
Robocalls are illegal in CA? That must be new. We get them every campaign season, and The Do Not Call list doesn't apply to political calls.
I got to hear the robocall earlier today!

The one I heard was fantastic, heartfelt, and TRUE.

I think it comes from Hillary Clinton supporters. Hopefully a rich billionaire who realizes they have more to lose with four more years of Obama than if Hillary Clinton runs and wins.

By the way, PUMA's didn't die after 2008, just as the occupy movement doesn't have a leader, PUMA's just scattered to all four corners because Hillary Clinton had support from such a diverse group of voters.

The comment I most identify with up above is...

....."I received one of those robocalls here in Texas. All I can say is there are a lot of Democrats who don't want to vote for Obama but can't vote for any of the insane GOP candidates."

Perfectly stated, astute, and completely accurate and probably 50% of ALL voters agree with that statement.

And Obama is counting on the last part of the quote above to get re-elected so he can have four more years of Japanese waygu steak and spend time with his kids at the white house.

Anyone who says they were for Hillary Clinton, but aren't trying anything now to shake the Obama tree, is fucking narcissist in my book.

It's not that hard to help shape the public's mind right now. <a href="> Move On Dot Org's Hillary Clinton topic</a>

While my comment made it to the top, ten frickin votes? I love those of you voted for the comments that made it to the top of that topic.

But only ten votes? Really?
Chicken? Egg?

This series of robo-calls and the web site tap into an anger that will not go away anytime soon. Had the RBC not gamed the nomination process and had the Dem elites allowed the process to go on as it should have on the national convention floor and Obama won you wouldn't see it.

This sword might be wielded by republican ratfuckers but the Democrats in charge handed it to them.
Anon - which Rumproast asshole would you be speaking of?
By the way, if you post in their forum, you are listed as a "member". Kinda sneaky.
Obama beat Clinton on the basis of her vote to approve the Iraq invasion.

I guess the poseur Obama's failure to pursue the intelligence cherrypicking war criminals has culminated in his man Panetta's claim this week that the Iraq War was "worth it."

The Elite is as the Elite does. I'm sure both Clinton and Obama will push for war against Iran too, if the Lobby and the m-i complex at large demands it.
The Elite is as the Elite does.

The poseur Obama beat Clinton on the basis of her vote to approve the Iraq invasion.

He failed to even attempt to bring to justice the intelligence cherrypicking war criminals.

Now his man Panetta has said this week the Iraq War was "worth it."

And both will go on to Iran if the Lobby and the m-i complex demands it.

The Elite is as the Elite does.
Anonymous 9:38 PM - "One of many commenters who have to use the "anonymous" tag"

Perhaps you didn't notice, but when you leave your comment, the "Choose an identity" selection has one called "Name/URL". You type in a name (or alias) and click on publish. Quite simple and straight forward, no account or login or anything required. You can leave the URL blank, as it is optional. So, no, you do not HAVE to be anonymous. Unless you deliberately wish to choose that option. Mostly, people who do that here are trolls.
shouldn't people make sure first she actually wants the job before they start any kind of movement.
This is a crap comment..."Obama beat Clinton on the basis of her vote to approve the Iraq invasion".

It's the excuse that is given, but the reason is far more based on unethical behavior by Obama, Pelosi, and Reid.
Please vote my Hillary Clinton comments up at The Most Powerful Hillary Clinton speech is one you probably never saw.

Move On is one of those George Soros generated groups with millions of members that probably were the reason that Hillary Clinton did not get the nomination in 2008, even though the group was formed because of what happened to Bill Clinton!
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