Let me remind you of some things that Lincoln actually did say (links provided in my previous post):
“Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.”
"The legitimate object of government is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but cannot do for themselves in their separate and individual capacities."
Again I say: Sure sounds to me as though Lincoln would have supported single-payer.
Why do conservatives insist on living within a fake world consisting of fake quotes (Kaminsky's The Hoaxers cites plenty of examples), fake news (Fox), fake science (creationism, anti-global warming), fake fears (the Illuminati myth, the myth of Soviet aggression) and fake history (e.g., the "fundamentalist Founding Fathers" myth)?
It was also real, real cute to see Buck score Pelosi for not being bipartisan. After the experience of 2001-2006, no Republican will ever again have the right to complain about insufficient bipartisanship.
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You don't have to be an ignorant fool or a pathological liar to be a republican ... just a republican politician.
posted by MrMike : 3:36 PM
Earlier in the "debate" John Shadegg (R-Arizona) pulled out an infant as a prop and started telling the camera why this baby doesn't like health care reform. I thought it was an embarrassing moment for our species but his performance got cheers and an ovation.
posted by Eric : 4:00 PM
As you have argued, the Republicans are great at fighting the meme wars, but cannot govern. What does the "right" to complain about bi-partisan ship have to do with reality? It doesn't matter if it's ridiculous; it matters if the masses will BELIEVE it. Do you think they paid attention to the Democrats being shut-out of the legislative process during the GOP controlled years, and now judge Republican "lack of bipartisanship" complaints against it? Puh-leeze.
The Pelosi-favored health care bill will come to a vote in the House very soon. Conciliation with whatever the Senate passes will come later. Right now, I have more questions than observations. My main questions are these:
1. Should we oppose this legislation vigorously, or can we try to reconcile ourselves to the argument that the few good aspects of this bill (specifically, the new rules on pre-existing conditions) outweigh the many bad points (a weak or non-existent public option, mandates, fines, no savings)?
2. Suppose a bill passes, and suppose there are major problems. Will the country say "Well, we tried socialized medicine and it failed"? I fear that the citizenry will say just that, even though the House bill does not come close to any reasonable definition of socialized medicine.
3. An allied question: Has the moment for reform passed? As mentioned in previous posts, I can sense the national mood shifting back its default mode: "Laissez faire cures all evils."
4. If the moment has passed -- and if the Pelosi/Obama bill dies the ignominious death that many claim it deserves -- what then? It's easy enough for lefties to say "Back to the drawing board. Next time, let's go for single payer." But how do you know that there will be a next time? If single payer was politically difficult or impossible in 2009, when the country was in a rare liberal mood, then how will it be possible in 2010 or 2011?
How will it be possible after Congress changes hands, as it likely will?
The teabaggers are growing louder by the hour. I recall how ugly the anti-Clinton rhetoric became in 1994 and 1995. The anti-Obama rhetoric will soon become (already is?) uglier still. I foresee more militias, more calls for secession, more weird conspiracy theories, more talk of a military coup, more craziness. Now imagine the effects of a new terror attack. Or a Starr-like grand jury investigation on one pretext or other.
This country could soon be in a mood to goosestep. Again I ask: If single payer was impossible in 2009, how will it be possible in 2010 or 2011?
My suspicion: Obama had but one shot at this thing, and he blew it.
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If Congress wanted to fix the worst elements of our current system, they could have accomplished that with a three-page bill--not a 1000 page bill. Max Baucus the Obama-appointed leader on health care? What a sick joke on poor, deceased Teddy Kennedy. Somehow I think Teddy had in mind "health care for all", not "private industry health insurance for all". The current set of bills represent politics over people. My opinion: tank it. It's a loser. I think Artur Davis is correct: you only get one chance to make it right, and this isn't it.
grayslady
posted by Anonymous : 11:05 AM
Too often this country has accepted less then what's right and correct. Let this plan fail either in vote or in action and TRUST citizens to recognize it for what it is, another capitalist sell out of the consumers. As with all co dependency if you don't allow the bottom consequences to occur no change or recovery is possible.
"As mentioned in previous posts, I can sense the national mood shifting back its default mode: 'Laissez faire cures all evils.'"
I was thinking about the conservative preferred response to the financial crisis, to let a depression happen, and thought it is essentially the Christian Science response to illness. Conservatives pray to the free market, Christian Scientists pray to god, don't take any action and believe everything will be all right. The conservative response to the health care crisis is where they intersect with Christian Science.
posted by Eric : 12:50 PM
The mandated purchase of private insurance, with fines for those who don't pony up, kills the whole deal for me. I was insured through my employers throughout most of my working life, but started my own business 3 years ago and cannot afford insurance. What we pay for my husband is already over 50% of our mortgage payment (and that isn't a fancy policy, just basic Blue Cross coverage); insuring both of us would put health insurance as the number one expense in our household. There is something really wrong, and the "solutions" being offered by the insurance company employees - er, I mean "our representatives in Congress" - will only make things worse.
--tle
posted by Anonymous : 1:37 PM
Joe, you raise great questions and concerns. Unfortunately, Baucus/Bama & Co. never had the rest of us in mind with this insurance industry "reform" pay day that will, in conjunction with the great American jobs giveaway program to imported workers be the final kiss of death to this country's middle class. Key hustle points:
1. MANADATING everyone subsidize the death insurance industry while this administration cuts U.S. jobs and imports cheap workers and 2. PRE-EXISTING CONDITION COVERAGE
WILL BOTH BANKRUPT MIDDLE CLASS AMERICANS
Forcing or mandating millions of people to buy health insurance is a guaranteed prescription for removing those already struggling in the middle class to welfare status. For the majority, the current option NOT to buy these insurance mafia plans has been the ONLY thing keeping them from losing their homes and putting food on the table.
But the "pre-existing condition" clause is perhaps the most cynical of all. THE PRE-EXISTING clause is a straw carrot to make this reform's cost-prohibitive medicine go down easy.
FACT: Yes, the bill's language states that no one with pre-existing conditions can be "denied" their cost prohibitive health coverage, and there is nothing that prevents insurance companies from forcing such mandated coverage at costs that most middle class people (being laid off in droves) can't afford. Nor does it state that insurance companies can't/won't limit vital procedures/surgeries past a certain level, anyway, just like the esteemed insurance industry already does today?
You ask how likely any progress can be made on the health care front if this dog of a reform bill doesn't pass. Isn't it Gore who is now openly saying "civil disobedience" is a good thing to spark change? Is that what we are down to? The clueless teabaggers will be the least of our worries to prevent the Have party from turning what's left of the middle class into soup kitchen refugees. This is not a health care bill, it is anything but the universal care we need to help us protect against health and financial crises and disaster.
You think Obama "blew it'? Obama never blew what he didn't want...
Sorry for all of us - but this dog don't hunt.
posted by Bartleby the Slacker : 1:59 PM
Great questions. Though I think a bill will pass as a single payer advocate I'd like to see the whole thing go down in flames. It is a bad bill as far as i can tell now.
I don't think Obama cares about health care-he is doing this because he made a deal to get elected.
I think this is Pelosi's health care bill and she essentially has signaled what it means. She wants to carve health care into granite and then the fine tuning comes later.
So I support the bill, without really knowing the details, because once an entitlement program starts it is almost impossible to kill it-all you can do is change it and I think this may be the only way in this country to get universal health care given the opposition. It wont come in through the front door-it will sneak in through the side window.
posted by Snowflake : 3:23 PM
Why not phase a single payer system in by expanding the CHIPs program to cove all children then every few years up the eligibility age?
posted by MrMike : 3:34 PM
This is a bad bill; from forcing people to buy insurance with punishment of higher taxes and perhaps jail time for not purchasing insurance to the lack of a real public option and everything in between it deserves to be defeated. A majority of Americans dislike Obamacare. Should it pass the repercussions in November 2010 will make last Tuesday’s elections look like sweetness and light. It is like the Democrats are both tone deaf and did not listen to voters last Tuesday and have a death wish too.
And no, a bad bill should not be passed or sneaked through a side window. If this bill passes both Houses and is signed into law it will mean Republican rule for the next 10-20 years. Republicans may well take both Houses next November if this bill passes. Additionally, since much of the bill does not take effect (except for the taxes portion) until 2013 the Republicans can make a lot of changes to the statute. And I am betting those would not be good either.
Kill the bill and start over from scratch. If you want true health care reform just open up Medicare for anyone who wants it. Simple. You don’t need 2000 pages and 111 new federal departments and threats of higher taxes and jail time.
The Fort Hood massacre has spurred much ugly commentary. Indeed, the bigotry on display reminds us why anti-Obama liberals cannot join forces with the tea baggers.
The wisest and most troubling observations I've seen were published in Truthout:
The soldier says that the mood on the base is “very grim,” and that even before this incident, troop morale has been very low.
“I’d say it’s at an all-time low - mostly because of Afghanistan now,” he explained. “Nobody knows why we are at either place, and I believe the troops need to know why they are there, or we should pull out, and this is a unanimous feeling, even for folks who are pro-war.”
The shocking story of a soldier killing five of his comrades does not come as a surprise when we consider that the military has, for years now, been sending troops with untreated PTSD back into the US occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan.
According to an Armed Forces Health Surveillance Center analysis, reported in the Denver Post in August 2008, more than “43,000 service members -- two-thirds of them in the Army or Army Reserve -- were classified as nondeployable for medical reasons three months before they deployed” to Iraq.
Mark Thompson also has reported in Time magazine, “Data contained in the Army’s fifth Mental Health Advisory Team report indicate that, according to an anonymous survey of US troops taken last fall, about 12 percent of combat troops in Iraq and 17 percent of those in Afghanistan are taking prescription antidepressants or sleeping pills to help them cope.”
In April 2008, the RAND Corporation released a stunning report revealing, “Nearly 20 percent of military service members who have returned from Iraq and Afghanistan - 300,000 in all - report symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder or major depression, yet only slightly more than half have sought treatment.”
It will be argued that Hasan could not be suffering from PTSD because he was not under stress at the time of the shooting. But in his professional capacity, he often had to deal with trauma survivors -- and it is not uncommon for those working with psychiatric patients to begin to show some of the same symptoms.
Beyond that, I do not think it unreasonable to consider the stresses placed on a Muslim facing deployment to a Muslim country where Americans are not wanted. (Nothing in the previous sentence should be considered exculpatory, of course.)
For an excellent background briefing on Afghnistan -- the secret history of how it happened, and what we should do now -- I strongly recommend a series of interviews with Paul Fitzgerald and Elizabeth Gould, authors of Invisible History: Afghanistan's Untold Story. Fitzgerald and Gould are fascinating speakers with a wealth of truly new information and insights. The interviews are here (#685, #683, and #680).
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First off, any counselor that takes on the symptoms of those they counsel is dangerously incompetent and needs to be in another line of work. Secondly, I'm a bit confused that somebody would be so agonized about being sent into a situation where they may have to kill for what they consider an invalid reason...so they go out and systematically gun down any complete stranger they come across.
Ummm - you've become obsessed with tea party movement people. Apparently now, the tea partiers are responsible for all that ails the country. If there's a racist reaction to the ft. hood shooting - those are tea partiers. Unemployment is highest on record, north of 10% - must be because of teapartiers. Clooney's movie flunks at the box office - it's all those tea partiers out protesting instead of going to see good film.
Jesu Christo - there is no more evidence that people who consider themselves "tea partiers" are going to react with racism to the ft. hood shooting than there is that your average democrat. There certainly is none in your post.
But, evidence - as opposed to your own knee jerk prejudice - doesn't seem to be the basis for your analysis of who a tea partier is or not. All I can say is if you want "anti-Obama" liberals to join you in turning away from the tea party movement, you probably have to do better than making prejudiced, over-generalized statements and labeling them as a crude sexual act.
You know - sort of like how you told the progs last year that they were nuts to think they could persuade people to support Obama by insulting them.
posted by Anonymous : 5:10 PM
It's sad that when something like this happens, the bigotry that lays hidden in the darkest recesses of our minds, springs forth like a gusher!
People snap. Those that snap come in all colors, shapes, sex's and yes...religions. What happened at Ft.Hood was devastating but I fear it has given the bigots among us another reason to scream at the top of their lungs that "Moo-slims" are savages!
Soon, the wacky right and their enablers at "Fixed news" will be using this as a rally cry .
Bush should have reinstated the draft if he was going to fight two wars.
posted by MrMike : 8:08 PM
Jay:
"First off, any counselor that takes on the symptoms of those they counsel is dangerously incompetent and needs to be in another line of work."
Perhaps, but the phenomenon has long been noted. I even recall reading about it in my Psych 101 textbook, lo these many years ago.
"Secondly, I'm a bit confused that somebody would be so agonized about being sent into a situation where they may have to kill for what they consider an invalid reason...so they go out and systematically gun down any complete stranger they come across."
What's confusing? He went buggo.
Considering the fact that we live under a crazy foreign policy made by crazy politicians, I'm surprised that more soldiers don't go crazy.
Anon, you keep saying the same thing, and I keep ignoring your advice. The tea baggers are right-wing scum who deserve no sympathy. They exemplify why I fear rebellion: Any revolution in this country is likely to be fascist.
The incident is like a nightmarish addendum to Catch-22. For me, it highlights yet another ongoing atrocity--how horribly we are abusing our warriors.
I'm some kinda peacenik, but it's heartbreaking to see this bravest and most vulnerable class of citizens being so terribly used.
According to the Hindus--whom I love because they don't sugarcoat things--we are living in the age of Kali. It's Kali Yuga, a dark and grim age, when humankind is very far from God. It means Hell will be in session for another 20,000 years.
Check out this description of Kali Yuga, written 5000 years ago:
Avarice and wrath will be common. Humans will openly display animosity towards each other. People will have thoughts of murder for no justification, and they will see nothing wrong with that mind-set. Lust will be viewed as being socially acceptable, and sexual intercourse will be seen as the central requirement of life, with the result that even 13 to 16-year old girls will get pregnant. Sin will increase exponentially, whilst virtue will fade and cease to flourish. People will take vows only to break them soon after. People will become addicted to intoxicating drinks and drugs. Men will find their jobs stressful and will go to retreats to escape their work. Gurus will no longer be respected and their students will attempt to injure them.
On the cheery side, they say Kali Yuga is an excellent period during which to achieve spiritual growth. With 20,000 years to mess around with, we'll all achieve enlightenment--if we don't go mad or get hit by a stray bullet first.
Aw, Joe. And here I thought there was reasonable thinking on this blog.
I'm one of those "right-wing tea-baggers"--a registered Democrat until a year ago--whose taxes have gone through the roof and whose business is hanging on by a thread, and I resent being called "scum."
I am trying to understand how one can go from being a Democrat to joining forces with teabaggers. I can understand shifting to the right or left as a result of betrayal or events that question one's long held assumptions, but to swing 180 degrees is like cutting your nose off..... It is also interesting that the same type of person would think nothing of calling someone like major Hassan scum. Imagine growing up in the US as a Muslim with an Arabic name, living through 9-11 and war on terror, being in the Army and having your patriotism questioned if not by your comrades but at least by the public, the Right and the MSM, have your God and religion and by extension yourself called savage on the one hand and on the other have everything you have been taught about American exceptionalism, American Democracy and election proccess, love of Freedom, religous tolerance, just wars and regard and respect for troops and their sacrifice, American justice and rule of law all dragged through the mud by the very people you are supposed to be protecting and......... you flip and go apeshit. What's so hard about understanding that?
posted by beeta : 12:52 PM
Here is what is easy to understand, beeta. A man who took two oaths; one to do no harm and another to serve the country that provided him with the ability to accept the first. That man gathers weapons and sets out to kill as many unarmed comrades as he is able. He broke his vows to his profession, his country, and his God. Whatever real or imagined hardship you think he may have endured because of his name and his religion...it is nothing compared to what he has dealt out to others.
He deserves to die in disgrace at the end of a rope.
"I am trying to understand how one can go from being a Democrat to joining forces with teabaggers."
Beeta, not all "teabaggers" (how I despise that term) are wingnut Republicans. Many of us are independents and even Democrats who have been squeezed to the breaking point. We're struggling to pay $1,5000-a-month expenses on income of $1,200, with no end in sight. We're exhausted, broke and scared.
I am not a far-right screwball. I've marched both locally and in Washington in protest of the war in Iraq and traveled a thousand miles to be a poll monitor for MoveOn. If I do that for social issues, why should I not do it for economic ones? Does being a social liberal make me ineligible to be a fiscal conservative?
As for Major Hassan, you can talk till the cows come home about stress and second-hand trauma but I'm not buying. Nothing...NOTHING can excuse that man's actions. Twelve innocents are dead because of him. "Scum" is too nice a term.
Jay, I am not defending what Major Hassan did. I am objecting to the idea that he is different than anyone else that went crazy and killed people based on his religion. And speaking of breaking oaths, how many oaths did Bush break? How many did Cheney break? And Rumsfeld? How many innocent people died as a result of those broken oaths. I don't see many on the left or right shouting "Die Scum"!
posted by beeta : 4:02 PM
Creeper, Why would you think that I would ever object to you being a fiscal conservative or for that matter protesting anything? Protests organized by people like Michelle Buckman and Dick Army and the rest of the far right loonies are: -not grass roots -are financed by coorporations/organizations with clear anti regular Joe agendas -used to channel people's anger and frustrations toward fake/imaginary foes to deflect attention from the real culprits -used to propogate mis-information/lies about our Constitution, forign policy, proposed bills in Congress...etc And these rallies have come to be known as "teaparty rallies". You can be for anything, protest anything, but when you do it under the banner of the "tea parties", you will become part of the movement that misleads, misinforms, misdirects, socially/ economically/millitarily abuses not only Americans but all of the world.
posted by beeta : 4:25 PM
Beeta, there's nobody that despised Bush and his cronies more than I; but guess what, he's gone. See any change the last year. I sure haven't. I certainly don't see any objections from the Democrats who suddenly seem to have forgotten what we hated so much in the last presidency. From the beginning, Obots have labeled us racist and loonies. We are not going away. We are growing in frustration and anger. Be that as it may...exactly what is the difference between a man going around shooting people yelling "Alla Akbar" and a fellow going into a church and blowing away an abortion doctor? Both are scum in my outdated liberal morality and I'll be damned if I will spend one second defending them over the blood of innocents that they have shed.
Perry, give us a break. What is the source for this supposed 5000 year old translation? As if. Ancient people bemoaning 16 year old mothers? Hello. Normal marriage age back when.
posted by Zee : 8:50 PM
Yeah Perry, give us the source of this alleged Kaleeyoubahhoo! Doesn't sound Amurehkin, if you ask me. And truth be told, Lerner and Loewe actually changed their names from Singh & Choudry just before they penned the famous pean to pedo (and few know this, but Rajesh Khanna recorded the ditty before Maurice Chevaliuer, for the Bolly-play "Aloo Gigipadam")
Jesus Zee! are you that ignorant of the rest of the world as you surely are about ancient India? Do you think that the western ideas of women as chattel was a planetary norm? Were you aware that in Vedic society women chose their husbands (Swayamvara), were allowed multiple husbands, and that child marriage was verboten?
Have you ever heard of an epic book (or play or great film by Peter Brook) called The Mahabarata?? Why do you think they wrote of the power of women, and how they were not only equal to men, but superior? 2,500 years later, who is the biggest saint on the scene? A chick! Named Gargi Vachaknavi, not only was she spiritual leader but was one of the 9 guides for the Raja Janaka. Now please, you think she was a sexualized 13 year old? ...just because in Europe only adult MALE Athenians citizens who had completed their training as ephebes had the right to vote, it means nothing about ancient India.
Things got fucked up for women commencing in the Indian Middle Ages, and continued to deteriorate as other cultures invaded (Muslim, Christian, British...) that's when you see child marriage, Purdah, Jauhar, the Zenana... all that crap. But you cannot say that the Vedas, or vedic society lived that way! Fuck. That's like saying Thomas Jefferson has a black lover, therefore Gerald Ford had black lovers. Same thing.
Unless you have some proof that Vedic society was misogynist, Zee, you are talking straight outta your ass.
As you probably know, Major Nidal Malik Hasan -- an Army shrink at Fort Hood -- "allegedly" went berserk and shot at his fellow soldiers, killing thirteen and wounding 30. He had just discovered that he was about to be deployed overseas.
Can you believe that this is going on nearly 9 1/2 months after Obama's inauguration? Why aren't we out?Permalink
Couldn't he have just said no? I don't mean that as a joke. He says no, and gets booted out of the army. He still has his life, and no one else is killed either.
This guy went to Va Tech..where there were also mass killings..look up Cathy O'Brien..she talsk about Va Tech!
posted by Anonymous : 8:32 PM
correction.."talks"
posted by Anonymous : 8:33 PM
According to a retired colleague of Major Hasan, the Major was increasingly opposed to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and he was going through all possible channels to avoid the assignment to Iraq, which was scheduled for late November. Sadly, according to Major Hasan's colleague, the Major was very excited about Obama's election because he truly believed Obama's campaign promises to withdraw from Iraq.
I can't begin to imagine the stress that someone like Major Hasan was under: years of counseling those veterans returning from these illegal invasions with problems ranging from PTSD to alcoholism, with no end in sight. According to a friend of his from church, he was both a devout muslim and a patriotic member of the armed forces. These conflicts must have been tearing him apart. I feel so terribly sorry for both Major Hasan and his victims.
We've spent over $300 billion in Afghanistan alone, but we're told there isn't enough money for universal health care. I suspect we're all going slightly mad by now.
grayslady
posted by Anonymous : 8:34 PM
C'mon, Joseph. You didn't really believe all that fairy tale about Obama the anti-war candidate, did you?
It was just campaign rhetoric, and bringing it up now is "playing gotcha."
It is kinda funny how all those Obots who could never, ever support Hillary because of her AUMF vote don't seem to care about the war anymore.
I gotta side with the Miyq-- I'm not saying that we would have pulled out any better with HRC or MccCaine who would have found just as many excuses as O to stay in.... and to tussle with Iran on Zion's behalf..
Really, Mr. Cannon, did you really think that 9 months after the puppet named O became potus that anything would be different?
I love how people say to me, well, he 'is trying' to reform health, he 'is trying' to fix the economy.. and to that i have two things to say one is that the verb "trying" implies failure (i tried my hardest... but we lost the game) but more so-- he appears to push far to the left for health care why? because he knows that nothing will happen but appearances, same with the pull outs, he talks it, shucks it and jives it (yeah, i said it! fuck you bots, that is a shuck and jive).. its the oldest trick in the dem book-- make it look like somethings happen, start a commission, have a hearing, put out a bill that's bigger than a phone book... great. and then we will say, well, he tried.
The only shock is that anyone actually believed that soldiers would leave Iraq. PT Barnum said it best; suckers every minute-- but really, didn't Carlo Collodi write some stories about puppts who lie? Geppetto, Mangiafuoco, and the 'Grillo parlante'? Is it much different than the puppets who lie to us today? Before it was a Disney abortion, it was a satire, right?
The Disney movie was great. And the original was dead serious -- a great big wallow in Italian Cat-lick guilt, complete with a transparently-disguised stand-in for the Virgin Mary.
Not booted out; locked up in a military prison and doubtless subjected to some of the very nasty treatment he'd have been used to giving forcibly to others in his capacity as army shrink.
As someone embarking on a career in mil intel once told me:
If you can't take a joke...don't join the army. Which goes for those he shot as well as Hasan himself.
The western press is having a field day screaming in its headlines that this guy is (was?) a Muslim. Can't remember a case where they acted similarly with a Christian or a Jew.
The various cults of pyschiatry work like other cults...I call it the Jesuit model...the lower-downs get shrunk by the higher-ups, and so on up the chain. 'Course, I'm sure he was no Reichian. Army psychiatrist ain't my favourite type o'person. OK I do believe in redemption and sure, this guy should have found some other way to get out of the army. But I wouldn't put this on the same level as some GI who goes similarly crazy, in the sense of forgetting who he's supposed to murder and who he's supposed to murder with.
That said, I wonder just who actually started the shooting at Fort Hood. As a brown-skinned Muslim who didn't like the American invaders' efforts in Iraq, Hasan would have had quite a few enemies. Insane 'hero' with numerous belt-notches included, very probably.
Second point of scepticism: is it actually true that this guy ever said he didn't want to go to Iraq? Might this just be bullshit? As in, some American soldier goes fuckin' crazy and shoots a load of people - except not in Arabia or Asia but in America itself - and oh yes, he's a Muslim, you know, and he went to the mosque (implication: what was he doing there?), and he was against the war (implication: some fucking traitors express their anti-patriotic beliefs publicly - even in the army itself - and still we let them!), and so on. The clear message being: remove the enemy within. I got fed up years ago with compulsively analysing news stories to try to form a view on what really happened. (Well, except very occasionally). More important is what's being done with the story.
And the message here is being communicated not just to Joe SixPack but, importantly, within Uncle Sam's military wing itself.
"Muslim groups fear backlash" say some headlines... Subtle, huh? Between the lines, there's the message that all Muslims have "groups" which either they belong to or which speak on their behalf, legitimately represent them. OK I know that's how a lot of people like things to be in America, and there are always 'groups' that want to gob off to the media, but it makes me think of how, in the early years after they came to government, the Nazis viewed Jewish Germans.
We get the idiotic spectacle of 'groups' 'racing' to 'condemn' the 'rampage'. As if...as if...? Who's calling the propaganda shots here? Easy for me say that, sure. But... "if you can't take a joke, don't get into politics" ? It's still the warmakers who control the press, and they are using this story...and if this isn't criticised head-on, the bastards will get stronger. Mustn't let a crisis go to waste. (Nothing like stating the obvious! :-) ).
b
posted by b : 5:44 AM
OK Joe, I'll give you that--- the artwork in Disney's version is great, thanks to the brilliant Oskar Fischinger, and Grazia from Death Takes a Holiday as the Blue Fairy.
But really, aside from a great patina, they butchered Collodi's story, filleted all the social commentary; no serpents laughing themselves to death, no City of Catchfools, no terrible Dogfish.... and then if you were to consider what Disney did to the story, and compare it to Tolstoy's "The Little Gold Key or the Adventures of Buratino" it is hard to say that Disney's version was "great."
Good animation, ok, but as John Kennedy Toole once wrote; Ignatius growls that the picture he is seeing is "an abomination. Hollywood, I fear, is our contemporary Sodom and Gomorrah and we best avert our gaze."
Disney took some Montasio, some Fontina, and some Caciocavallo and gave us cheese-whiz. And yet even in that pablum, there's still a puppet who lies. Just like O.
What I can't believe is Obama's "news conference" yesterday. Taking two and a half minutes to schmooze with the attendees of an Interior Department conference before even mentioning the tragedy at Fort Hood is an insult to every soldier in America.
Anonymous, your comments on the "stress" Major Hasan was under are proof positive that you've lost it completely. None of the soldiers he counseled did this, even though they were the ones with PTSD. Second-hand "stress"? Don't make me laugh.
Go post at the Great Orange Satan, where they were expressing sympathy for the shooter yesterday. You'll fit right in there.
Wait, I know the answer (and it hasn't been given yet)!
It's pretty simple, and once you read it, it's entirely dispositive of the question.
It comes down to math (my apologies!) and corrected memory, and the fact that 9-1/2 is less than 16 (to which I hope we all can agree). -----------------------
New York Times December 4, 2008 News Analysis Campaign Promises on Ending the War in Iraq Now Muted by Reality By THOM SHANKER
WASHINGTON — On the campaign trail, Senator Barack Obama offered a pledge that electrified and motivated his liberal base, vowing to “end the war” in Iraq.
But as he moves closer to the White House, President-elect Obama is making clearer than ever that tens of thousands of American troops will be left behind in Iraq, even if he can make good on his campaign promise to pull all combat forces out within 16 months.
“I said that I would remove our combat troops from Iraq in 16 months, with the understanding that it might be necessary — likely to be necessary — to maintain a residual force to provide potential training, logistical support, to protect our civilians in Iraq,” Mr. Obama said this week as he introduced his national security team. ------------------
From this reporting, then-president-elect Obama claimed his prior campaign pledge was to remove COMBAT TROOPS IN 16 MONTHS, and the Times appears to agree.
XI
posted by Anonymous : 7:38 AM
I agree with Bob Not Bob. As an aside, I can't recall a Jewish mass murderer-- leave out the Middle East.
....as in outside of Palestine/Israel from '48 to present? So then does King David count? When the deal was that if he kill Goliath, the Philistines would be the Israelites' slaves. But once David kills Goliath, he leads the Isseys and Hymies on a massacre 'till the Valley of Elah is flooded with Philistine blood ("and the Lord was pleased"). So does that count?
If not, what about Joel David Rifkin (killed 17 between 89-93) or Albert Hamilton Fish (1870–1936)? How about Son of Sam (or does adopted not count? because I'll tell ya this: adopted still get the tip of their schmeckeleh cut off)? Then there's The Lonely Heart Killer - Harvey Murray Glatman, and the Ruskies Kaganovich, and Yagoda? Both Jewish, both mass murderers.
And how about Kissinger? And that's not even looking at Wolfowitz or the PNAC...
I'm not saying that there is an issue of proportionality or over-representation, just sayin' that no group is above reaching the nadir on occasion.
I'm not kidding. If the new worldwide copyright treaty is put into effect, goodbye blogging. And goodbye to YouTube and a lot of other services. Cory Doctorow at Boing Boing sounds the alarm about the new Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement, now being cobbled together in South Korea by the Obama administration -- in secret.
We don't yet know the full details, but -- so far -- we know this:
* * That ISPs have to proactively police copyright on user-contributed material. This means that it will be impossible to run a service like Flickr or YouTube or Blogger, since hiring enough lawyers to ensure that the mountain of material uploaded every second isn't infringing will exceed any hope of profitability.
* * That ISPs have to cut off the Internet access of accused copyright infringers or face liability. This means that your entire family could be denied to the internet -- and hence to civic participation, health information, education, communications, and their means of earning a living -- if one member is accused of copyright infringement, without access to a trial or counsel.
* * That the whole world must adopt US-style "notice-and-takedown" rules that require ISPs to remove any material that is accused -- again, without evidence or trial -- of infringing copyright. This has proved a disaster in the US and other countries, where it provides an easy means of censoring material, just by accusing it of infringing copyright.
* * Mandatory prohibitions on breaking DRM, even if doing so for a lawful purpose (e.g., to make a work available to disabled people; for archival preservation; because you own the copyrighted work that is locked up with DRM)
Any law that forces ISPs to police user infringement of copyright will also put an end to Myspace and Facebook. Not to mention a lot of ISPs.
This is an issue on which we can all agree, regardless of political persuasion. Huffington Post calls the new treaty "A Patriot Act For the Internet":
The entire U.S. tech sector has been publicly silent, as the Obama administration has co-oped them into trading silence for access to the secret documents.
At this point, Congress needs to stand up and put an end to this appalling spectacle of secret legislation on a global scale. How can politicians claim to be all for transparency, and allow this indefensible violation of the public right to know proceed?
A large number of organizations and people have written President Obama asking that he end the secrecy of the negotiation.
All 40+ countries in the negotiation have access to the proposed text. And, there are processes for just about any corporate lobbyist with ties to the Administration to see proposed texts, if they sign tough legally binding non-disclosure agreements. So why is it secret from the public?
Look, this thing isn't about pirated music or downloaded movies. I'm a content creator myself, and I know what it's like to be ripped off. Hell, I've seen posts from this very blog published on other sites without so much as a byline or a by-your-leave.
This ain't that.
This is about free speech. This is about blogging. If every ISP has to hire an in-house police force, two things will happen: 1. Everyone's monthly bill will go way up. 2. Customers will be prevented from using services like Blogger.
Think about the quoted material in this very post. Have I followed the letter of the law? I don't know, and neither do you. The law has not determined just how many words one may quote under the "fair use" rubric. Instead of playing count-the-letters, the ISPs will simply tell customers not to blog. True, no sane individual could claim that my lengthy quotes did financial harm to either Boing Boing or HuffPo -- but if this treaty goes through, mere sanity will no longer matter.
This treaty will return us to the days when freedom of the press belonged only to those who owned a press.
People won't stand for this.
Barack Obama is about to become the least popular president in history -- and the Democratic party will get a rep as the party that tried to censor the internet.
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Looking back at the Lutheran Reformation during the 1500's, it was the development of a printing press that allowed less expensive Bibles to be made available to the masses. This opened the eyes of many and allowed them to look at how they were being decieved. It was so bad during that time with corruption and "Gone Wild" everything that people took matters into their own hands. The Puritans came over to America in part to get away from the Reformation that was taking place in their home land. This is one reason why we have text in our Consitution that guarantees separation between Church and State.
Personally my family fled France around the mid 1600's since France was seeing seven Reformation wars. They fled to Luxembourg about 200 miles due east and built a family home that still stands to this day. What existed within my family through the generations were horrible stories of what happened that made them leave France. One story talks about the late night visits by angry mobs to their neighbors where everyone including the children were killed simply because they were Catholic. They said that living during that time was horrible and it was time to leave especially when it came close to home.
Looking back, it took a few hundred years to have information spread across the land that informed others of the truth. Today, the internet does it in a fraction of this time yet there will still be efforts to silence the truth. The reason is clear, it works really well but what it is they are trying to do?
I've been writing posts for a long time talking about us being in the midst of a White House Coup. I know from the family I was in that it's being run by the Big Banks and others. What's fueling the Coup in large part is the sale of huge Drug Sales where our Government leaders are directly involved with selling us drugs. Be aware that the plans aren't limited to just the US, they extend beyond our borders.
Considering that this is their plan, they may be expending a lot of energy to insure their plans end successfully. But it's important to realize that there is an opposition that exists that is successfully putting an end here and there to what is happening. Also realize that while those pushing the Coup are committing themselves deeper with all of us watching, they eventually and in many cases have alread reached a point where they can't get out. As slithery as they are, eventually they end up painting the picture of their own doom. It still needs a little time....
Marty Didier Northbrook, IL
posted by Anonymous : 3:13 PM
Joseph, I know you must be upset...you left a typo in the first paragraph: Trade Agreement, not Traqde Agreement!
Check out an old post over at Tn Guerilla Women. Calvin Cline tried to shut down a couple of blogs making fun of his artificially photoshopped-skinny models, whose head ended up bigger than her hips.
One site caved and took down their post...the others not only left it up but challenged him on fair use and got even more attention.
I wonder what 4chan users have to say about this turn of events?
The cyber activists can wreak some havoc/fun.
Put "Scientology" in your tags for this story and maybe some of them will wander over and have something pointed to say!
posted by Zee : 3:21 PM
I have to say...I almost think, bring it on. It will bring the "told you so" comebacks almost to orgasmic levels. I will be smirking nonstop.
It was Ralph Lauren's lawyers who tried to shut down Boing Boing over the altered photos. Fortunately BB had an off-shore IPS and did not have to comply.
gormenghast
posted by Anonymous : 4:49 PM
Gee Marty, I wish I knew the source of your optimism. To me it looks like things are getting worse by the hour.
posted by Anonymous : 6:03 PM
Zee, it's Calvin 'Klein' as in "Nothing comes between me and my Calvins" and not 'Cline' as in CRAZY, as in "missing the bus."
posted by Bartleby the Slacker : 6:12 PM
It seems to me that you are over-reacting, Joseph. Consider:
* Most off the stuff posted on Facebook or YouTue is sh--t.
* Content creators are being screwed-over by the current situation.
* The way things stand, little people share, while big companies/organizations take, take take (Adsense/Google benefits from the current copy and paste culture, as do selfish culture consumers).
Enforcement of copyright would conceivably allow content creators to make a proper living off work that is their creation.
Thanks, Bartleby...that was driving me nuts, but we can't correct our comment typos, alas. I'd actually typed "Kline" instead of Klein and knew that was wrong and somehow concluded it was the "K" that was off!
posted by Zee : 9:54 PM
I'm a big fan of making ISP's responsible for policing the copyright infringement that they facilitate. Original blogging will not end -- people who clip incessantly from other people's intellectual property will end. As long as we agree that there's a fair law called 'copyright', there's certainly nothing wrong with policing actual infringement.
Trust me -- if you make a film and find that it's available on a torrent the night of it's release on DVD, you'd feel differently about this.
It doesn't end or even damage free ORIGINAL speech.
Phone company? What? That's quite a nonsensical stretch. I'd be a fan of suing the phone company for copyright infringement if they committed copyright infringement.
If wolves traveled down the same road every night to eat your cattle, thereby destroying your livelihood, you'd be all for the policing of that road.
You're condoning copyright infringement as 'not a big deal' because it's your blogging style to copy and paste constantly.
How dare you say that my style is copying and pasting? I may not be the finest blogger, but I do more original writing than -- well, just about anyone.
And the phone company can be used, has been used, for copyright infringement. The fault lies with the infringer, not with the company.
Dudes, Obama isn't going to let this happen. He's got a trick up his sleeve. Just wait and see. He's awesome.
posted by Anonymous : 6:27 AM
Always looking for a quick buck the entertainment media companies want to put the onus on the web hosting companies rather than do it themselves. While there is a real problem with auction sites and some e-tail sites selling pirate DVD's and CD's and a pain for the copyright owners to get them off the shelves, going after some one for failing to delete a 10 minute segment of a fan subbed anime?
posted by MrMike : 6:49 AM
I've always wondered why there's no way that one can copy and paste excerpts and have a marker that automatically footnoted the source. I don't know what the "share button" is that Alessandro Machi refers to, but I always prefer to cut and paste excerpts, not entire articles, and then either include the precise url ...or if the community knows the blog, credit the writer/blogger for people to go check out the entire thing.
Why is there no "excerpt button" developed that marks the source of cut and pasted material? It's been explained to me before, but I have a hard time believing such a thing couldn't be developed.
posted by Zee : 6:58 AM
"...I do more original writing than -- well, just about anyone."
Exactly. So why defend others' bad habits?
I think it's OK that ISP can be sued if it *Knowingly* distributes plagarized stuff.
The point is if someone tells the ISP something on a blog is plagiarized, they can go check it out and usually it will be obvious.
Anyway, that's more or less the way things work today, if you find your stuff has been plagarized in the US.
As for regimes using it as a means of censorship, perhaps. But if they want to censor stuff, there are other ways to do it.
posted by Anonymous : 8:31 AM
"I've always wondered why there's no way that one can copy and paste excerpts and have a marker that automatically footnoted the source."
Actually, Huffington Post has just such a system. I have no idea how their code works, but I do know that when I take a quote from one of their stores -- even a small one -- extra text shows up when pasted into my post. The text tells readers to head back to HuffPo for more.
I always cut that out, since it would impede the flow. But I always provide a link going back to the original story.
"I've always wondered why there's no way that one can copy and paste excerpts and have a marker that automatically footnoted the source." ->There is .. eh, there WAS.. it's a plug-in for IE, and all You had to do, was to give them a valid e-mail adress. Its patented in the US. It is the only thing anybody needs for writing on a computer. I think its too efficient.
Giving Republicans cover by stymying the reform agenda that won Democrats the 2006 and 2008 elections won't win them any conservative votes. In a base election, and 2010 will certainly be one, the party that better rallies its base will win. And abandoning the promises that got Democrats elected is a sure fire way to make sure that the activist base stays home and refuses to do the heavy lifting every campaign needs to win, and makes sure that less committed Democrats say "fuck it" and stay home on election night.
Too late, too late. The damage has been done. Consider:
Dennis Kucinich couldn't get his amendment -- the one which would allow states to opt for single-payer -- into the main House health care bill, because Pelosi stripped it out. He's hoping that someone will slide it in during conciliation. (Fat chance.) The Speaker will probably also block Weiner's single-payer bill. Pelosi does favor a public option; I'll grant her that. But she can't get a sufficient number of her fellow Dems to go along with the idea.
Meanwhile, just to be snippy, Boehner is working on a GOP bill that will be quite a bit worse than anything the Republicans have heretofore proposed -- indeed, the new plan makes John McCain's look like socialism. Boehner wouldn't be heading into such territory if he felt the slightest bit intimidated by the Dems.
The "Goldman Sachs Democrats" have failed the party. The situation cannot be salvaged. It's too late.
What to do? Here are my long-term ideas:
Liberals should do what the movement conservatives have done and are doing: Wage intra-party war. Get rid of the Goldman Sachs Democrats and put in some real Democrats. Out with the "progressives;" in with the liberals. End the influence of jackasses like Markos and Marshall; look for new blood. First control the party -- then wait to control the country.
Does this mean that the Republicans will regain control in the medium-term? Yup. It's already underway. Nothing can stop it. But as I said just yesterday: Republicans are great at fighting meme wars, but they cannot govern. Wait for them to get back in, then wait for them to fail.
Right now, liberals should give Obama nothing but sneers -- unless he changes his ways, which he won't. Liberals should demonstrate utter contempt for both the president and the tea-baggers.
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Too late Joe, regular folks(liberal ones) like me have been thinking that for a while now and if a real health care reform does not pass, there will be a lot more people who will sit at home or at best will vote selectivly for a few real democrats. Yesterday might have been an eye opener for some in the MSM or Congress or Obama(not sure about that either listening to the spin)but folks like me have been thinking and saying that(everytime I sign a pro health care reform petition, I add the sentiment in the comment box) for the last 3-4 months.
posted by beeta : 12:50 PM
I got an email today urging us to contact our reps over the Weiner bill. Supposedly it's being voted on the end of this week, but none of the links and dates matched up, so I leave it to others to figure out. I have no definitive link, sorry.
posted by Zee : 10:06 PM
And he can't spell "stymieing" either (a word about which I once corresponded with Encyclopaedia Britannica).
posted by b : 2:32 PM
History and common usage have, I think, stymied your attempt to maintain the old, preferred spelling. "Stymying" is now everywhere, even in the dictionary.
I said Encyclopaedia Britannica, but meant the OED, where the relevant editor agreed that the logical 'stymieing' was used a lot. That was only a few years ago. Sure, today it gets less Google points than the alternative - but someone's got to stand up against the juggernaut :-)
Well, the conservatives are winning everything tonight. The only possible good news for Democrats might occur in the NY-23 race -- that's the one where the tea-baggers canned the official GOP candidate and put in one of their own Fruit Loops. The Kos Krowd will krow and kackle like krazy if Democrat Bill Owens pulls off a win -- but they won't tell you that Republican Dede Scozzafava remained on the ballot, and that she's pulling in some votes, despite her endorsement of Owens. If the right side of the ticket were not split, the ultra-conservative candidate would have won. (Update: Owens won.)
For months, the big "progressive" bloggers closed their eyes and ears to reality. The mainstreamers told us that the tea party movement was a loose coalition of kooks who could never have any lasting impact on the national conversation. They told us that only a few cranks would ever believe the oft-repeated lie that Barack Obama is a socialist. They told us that the public's attitude had changed, that Milton Friedman was out and Keynes was in.
Now, after the GOP has won big in this off-year election, Charles Krauthammer is crowing:
"You will remember after the 2008 election people talked ... about a new era, about the Republicans becoming a rump party of the south, even losing parts of the south, how this was the death of conservatism. ... Here we are a year later and we can see how ephemeral and one-shot 2008 was..."
Much as I hate to admit it, Krauthammer is right. A year after the election, Barack Obama now fully owns the recession -- and the Republicans own the rebellion. Sure, that situation is unfair, but it is what it is. The right-wingers have cast off the W legacy of thievery, knavery and failure. They are now considered the party of ideas.
Everyone is talking about two classic far-right cranks -- Ayn Rand and W. Cleon Skousen. Those two quasi-psycho footnote figures are now considered profound thinkers. And Barack Obama, the man who gave us Summers and Geithner, is considered a bolshie.
I cannot freakin' buh-LIEVE this situation!
I'll repeat the main point of the post below: Obama had only about six months to lay on some old-school FDR-style liberalism. He blew it. Now one or both houses of Congress will go Republican next year. Watch it happen.
Obama's failure may be the most important, most distressing failure in the history of the Democratic party.
NO MORE GOLDMAN SACHS DEMOCRATS!
Obots? Are any of you reading this?
We warned you. We anti-Obama liberals spent an entire year warning you that the guy was about as fake as Pam Anderson's claim of all-natural cleavage -- and you bots responded by putting your hands over your ears while screaming "Racist racist racist!" Now look where you are. Your hero has given you the kind of deep-drill piledriver rogering that leaves you covered with bleeding anal fissures. Whaddaya think now?
We were right all along. When will you Obots admit it? Just say it. When will you smug bots finally take your humility pills? When will you apologize?
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Rather than waiting for a bunch of foul-mouthed Philistines to apologize to us, I advise going round and telling the O-holes to shut the f*ck up--or explain why we should listen to a single thing they have to say about politics.
The progs are more or less aware Obama is a catastrophe, but unable to perceive they're the cause. You can cut the cognitive dissonance at HuffPo with a knife. I imagine it's the same at Democratic Underground, Buzzflash, and the other watering holes for bad progressives.
When the little pr*cks start blaming the Clintons for their failures, we must metaphorically smack them upside the head. Makes you wish we were drafting their asses.
Apologize? hahaha. They're too busy whining that Zerobama is "screwing over" the "people who elected him." As if Zero didn't broadcast exactly what he was going to do in between the "hope" and "change" sloganeering. The best whiner is John Aravosis over at Americablog, crying that Zero didn't lift a finger to help save gay marriage in Maine. What part of campaigning with multiple homophobes did he not get? The worst whiners are the women...worst as in not a peep from them as abortion access is thrown under the bus. Alll that screeching about Palin and yet nary a word as Zero and Stupak decide that prolifers can stick their noses in other citizens' crotches and determine which legal medical procedures they'll deign to fund. And as Digby noted, after it's all over, the rightwingers will get to screech about the evil "liberal" health plan. Nope, throughout the entire 2008 campaign we couldn't sell, lend or giveaway a clue.
posted by Zee : 4:44 AM
Perhaps you are right, but there is nothing in these election results to support it.
I agree that the NY-23 district win for the Democrats means little as for Democrats (although it may mean a lot for the GOP if their crazies reject the GOP candidates, split their votes, and lose a seat held by them since before Reconstruction days).
But likewise, the losses of the two statehouses means little as to the Obama/national party situation, given that Deeds ran away from Obama and was crushed anyway, and Corzine had many prior campaign promises utterly unfulfilled and started from some point in the 30s in the polls.
And, of course, had Obama done some New Deal/FDR-style policies, THOSE would be caricatured as Marxism, just as they were in FDR's day, and in the case of JFK.
Any Democrat pursuing Democratic policy planks will be so accused. It is not unique to Obama, and a President Hillary would have been equally subjected to the charge, imo.
XI
posted by Anonymous : 6:32 AM
If Mr. Hopity-Changity doesn't get rid of his entire financial team by New Year day, he'll be another one termer in the mold of Carter & Daddy Bush.
And the fooking kossacks will blame it all on the racists.
By all means, let's ignore the exit polls in VA and NJ showing that Obama had little or nothing to do with the election.
posted by Anonymous : 8:15 AM
Like the Tea Party loons, the O-bots have their own version of reality and will stick to it. Too bad they didn't bother to vote this time around else the results may have been different. That's the problem, the T-Pers were motivated by Faux Spews and went to the polls, the kossholes stayed in their basements eating their cheese puffs and typing Palin bashing screeds. A comment about your previous post, there is a new world order only it isn't some secret society, they are listed on the NYSE and they are the proud owners of the Obama Wing of my former party.
XI I agree that any dem president who dared pursue a real democratic agenda would have been accused of being too socialist, but what democrats are upset about is that we got a president with that label and no agenda to show for it. The fact that VA elected a Repub Gov or NJ kicked out a very unpopular Gov is not the news, the real news is that dems didn't show up to vote.
posted by beeta : 1:04 PM
In a few years it will be a great mystery how Obama got elected because no one will admit having supported him.
The Obots will deny being Obots, but they will never apologize.
Much of the discussion is entirely ahistorical and almost weak-minded.
Democrats always turn out less than the GOP does-- always-- in off-year elections, mid-term elections for sure, and total off-years like this, even more so.
Some largish percentage of the '08 Obama vote were young people, and they turn out worse than anybody historically at all times. They're turned off? No, they're irregular and unlikely voters.
The out-of-power party always is more energized, and bad economic times are always tough on incumbents.
So all these things occur as is to be entirely expected, and vast conclusions are drawn uniquely about Obama? Even though the net result was two more seats in the House of Representatives for Democrats, the only electoral result that effects Washington?
I don't find any evidence that Obama much contributed to these results in any way, nor much of an analysis as to how he could have done something to have changed anything that occurred.
By this time in their respective terms, Clinton and Reagan had passed their own signature initiatives strongly desired by their partisans (Reagan his tax cuts, Clinton his tax increases), and both were still at or below Obama's levels (Clinton, well below, in the low 40s %s), as they both struggled in their bad economic circumstances. And indeed, although they eventually cruised to re-election, both men continued to look bad for another two years from the equivalent points in their presidencies.
Oh, if only Obama were more like Clinton? So he could be 10 points lower in the polls now? Openly 'triangulate' by attacking Democratic ideas?
XI
posted by Anonymous : 7:09 AM
The polls showed that the economy was the number-one factor. If you want to believe that's "not about Obama" (who OWNS the economy he lied, cheated, and stole to be in charge of), well then, you must be an Obot.
"In a few years it will be a great mystery how Obama got elected because no one will admit having supported him."
Just like Bush. It's very difficult to find anyone who admits to having voted for Dubya, except for the loony far-righters who are actually proud of the fact. Obama voters will end up the same way: The shamefaced ones mumbling something about "but I hoped..." and the ragged loony fringe dead-enders who keep wandering around in dazed circles muttering that he hasn't had enough time and Hillary or McCain would have been worse.
posted by DancingOpossum : 8:54 AM
No one cares about Obama personaly. Everyone cares about what Obama does bcz he is our President. He campaigned in NJ and not VA and both lost. Make of it what you want.
posted by beeta : 9:52 AM
Last comment was for myiq
posted by beeta : 11:22 AM
Disagree that Obama 'owns' the recession. (He will, eventually, I suppose, but doesn't yet.)
Why do I say that? Because the polling shows about 58% of the people still blame W for the economy. The number blaming Obama at this time is sizable and probably growing, but that number is less than half the number who still blame W (it's in the mid-20%s).
XI
posted by Anonymous : 7:44 AM
it won't make a bit of difference Joe. These so-called "Progressives" have their head so far up Obama's ass, nothing can remove the stink!
Deregulation of the finance industry got us into our current mess. The time to impose new regs was over six months ago. The job can't be done now, because the teabaggers have successfully brainwashed a large section of the American populace into accepting the absurd "Obama the socialist" meme. Give the Republicans credit: They can't govern, but they sure know how to fight the meme wars.
Now, Treasury Secretary Geithner is talking about reforming the financial industry. The FDIC has a scheme of its own. Alas, as in the health care debate, the proposed reforms are worse than doing nothing.
Unfortunately, both plans are lousy, says William K. Black, professor at the University of Missouri Kansas City School of Law.
A former regulator who helped resolve the Savings and Loan crisis in the 1980s, Black says the current reform plans take a terrible doctrine--Too Big To Fail--and write it into law.
Professor Black says Tim Geithner's plan includes a secret list of institutions that are too big to fail and that will always be bailed out no matter what.
Call it socialism for the rich. Call it Antisocialism. Call it WorstImaginableSituationism. Call it what you will. What it comes down to is this: Financial institutions with a record of lying, cheating, and wheeling-n-dealing will now be allowed to do so with a guarantee that taxpayers will pick up the tab whenever things go wrong.
An endless supply of free money for big bankers! Wheeeeeee!!
Here is a perfect example of the kind of fiendish behavior that Geithner wants to give eternal legal protection.
What should we do? Let's go back to Black:
A far better answer, Black says, is eliminating "Too Big To Fail" by seizing troubled financial institutions and restructuring them--the same thing the FDIC does with bankrupt banks. Contrary to the fears of the administration, this will not bring the system to its knees: It will resolve the problem quickly and cleanly, with no cost to the taxpayer.
In other words, nationalize the "too big to fail" banks. Buy 'em. Take 'em. Clean 'em up. If need be, wipe 'em out. And fire (or jail) the fiends who packaged crap mortgages as Triple-A investment instruments.
That's what Paul Krugman recommended roughly a year ago. That's what a lot of smart people screamed for. At one time, the public would have applauded that move. We could have pursued that course of action in January, February, March...
...but I doubt that we could do it now. Obama blocked the idea, back when it was on the table. Now it's too late for him to change his mind, because the political winds have shifted and the public has reverted to its "Laissez faire solves all evils" default position.
Could Obama have made a worse mess? He had a historic opportunity and he blew it.
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We should add no more regulation until we fix the problem with existing regulation, which has been captured by the banking industry. Until that problem is fixed, adding more regulation is pointless. Just look at how useless the SEC has been.
Nationalization is not the answer. Assuming it means gov taking control of the bank. You think the gov can do any better? The solution is for the bank to fail and settle in bankruptcy.
But I agree, Obama blew it!
posted by Anonymous : 3:56 PM
"Nationalization is not the answer. Assuming it means gov taking control of the bank. You think the gov can do any better?"
You bet. FDIC does it all the time. The Resolution Trust Company managed the S&L debacle rather well.
It may take pressure on a local level by desperate people to get local government to stand up to the national banks in their own community.
Why are we allowing the banks to bury people with stupid credit card interest rate charges on OLD, EXISTING credit card debt.
Anybody who can pay down their credit card debts should be incentivized to do it as fast as can be done. That is how to stabilize and begin to heal our economy.
If Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Dean, Kerry, and the other assorted bad actors that make up the New and Improved Democrat party are letting Wall Street Banksters run amok it isn't because they blew it. They are doing exactly what those people paid them to do, block reform until there is nothing left to loot. I,m sure republican heads are spinning, trying to figure how they were elbowed aside from the moneyed special interests gravy trough.
posted by MrMike : 7:59 PM
The New World Order is a right-wing myth -- a John Birch meme. (And don't you DARE quote that stupid GHW Bush speech. He was referring to something else entirely. I've dealt with this many, many times.)
The New Age movement? Ridiculous. There is nothing "New Age" about Obama. In fact, the New Age thing often serves as a way to spread far-right fringe political ideas. The first time I ever saw the Protocols of Zion in print, it was in a New Age bookstore.
Stop chasing myths. Goldman Sachs is something REAL.
Yesterday I interacted with a 10-yr-old black boy (in an interview situation.) When asked who or what in effect ‘set up laws’, ‘made the rules’, ‘had the power to command the police’ he answered Obama (this is in Switzerland.) He was very moved, his eyes misted over. Obama, he added, was his hero, just to make his thinking crystal clear.
I warned ppl in this part of Europe about Obama. Nothing doing, of course. And they still love him - Republican oppo’ is seen as vicious, misguided, insane, etc. and part of the usual mess of US politics. He is the PRESIDENT and he will prevail. Quite. It is sadly abundantly clear that ‘we here’ don’t care about what happens to the ‘American people’ - they voted excellently, it is all very admirable, now they should get on with it.
The larger implications are not grasped, by the ‘public’ whatever that is, even in Switz. where the news each day has detailed articles about banking, insurance, UBS, Goldman, etc. and anti-US sentiment (because of the attack on Swiss banks - passport, visa shenanigans - new international accords - not to mention Iraqi refugees, *wars*, Palestine...) runs extremely high. Somehow, the two strands of opinion never meet!
Obama has not blown it. He is, within such a pov, or at least its caricature as presented here, simply a cool media figure; a paste cut-out who is to be respected, liked, even adulated. But not a person of power, divorced from it in fact. (Notwithstanding the posturing about ‘now like he is Prez he can do good stuff.’)
This attitude signals acceptance ...of I don’t quite know what. Bizarre and worrying.
Ana
posted by Anonymous : 7:35 AM
Its not too late to nationalise them. Just make them outline their own breakup - the living will. Then wait. The CRE bust will take 'em down for you.
Bear in mind some of these banks got scr*wed by government. Think of Wells Fargo. They didnt have to buy Wachovia. Some idiot in government told them too. They were stupid enough to listen. Now they are scr*wed too.
The only just solution is nationalisation. Before its too late. You still have time.
Harry
posted by Anonymous : 12:15 PM
We're not going to apologize. Obama won, with a few hurt feelings but he put the party together and won. Hillary (who is obviously a centrist anyway, would you really have expected radical change from her?) is part of his administration. I have criticized Obama. I do not approve of everthing any Obama supporter has ever said or done. But no apologies here. Sorry.
Why I fear tea-baggers: Political web pages that suck
I learned about this hilarious site from Covert History. George Hutchins is running for Congress in North Carolina -- and although he hopes to present himself as a tough-guy Marine, his web page indicates that he has the flamboyant color sense of a 1968 San Francisco flower child. The loud graphics inform us that he is a teabagger who "Supports FOX NEWS!" and "Supports ISRAEL!" He also wants "MORE BETTER JOBS."
As you scroll down, the site becomes more disturbing. Hutchins claims that the best way to fight "OBAMA-NATION" is to repeal "the so-called 1964 Civil Rights Act." The candidate also considers Jesse Helms a great leader, even though the late senator's name is spelled incorrectly. Apparently, Hutchins likes to see lots of color on web pages, not on human skin. (He also seems weirdly obsessed with the Brits, especially with "SIR WALTER RALEIGH.")
Maybe the Democrats created this page, and this candidate, in order to make the tea-partiers look ridiculous...
Normally, I would counsel Hutchins to visit Web Pages That Suck in order to learn what to do and what not to do. But that site, in its current incarnation, now sports a design which kind of...sucks.
UPDATE: Okay, this isn't political, but you'll want to read it anyways. Via the WPTS site, I learned about The Light of God Ministry, which is the -- and I mean the -- funniest thing I've seen on the web in many a month. It's the home of healer Ken Kluk, the apostle of the misplaced apostrophe: "Any Catholic that does not follow the teaching's of Pope Benedict and pray the Rosary everyday, is not one of God's Catholic's." In Kluk-vision, God rubs out all enemies of Kluk -- cops, DAs, judges, any local authority figure who has ever given KK a hard time.
But what if God whacks the wrong dude? It's possible:
When we make a mistake and listen to Satan, it is not a sin. Because Satan deceived us. God understands this. Because he has made mistakes too.
Nevertheless:
"Would you like to be shunned and outcast by every person of every nation? Even your name will be striken from everywhere, because the sight of your name is an obsenity. That is the next step for those screw with me."
A generation of ghouls: Don't trust anyone under 20
Miami, Florida: A 15 year-old boy named Michael Brewer fights for life, with most of his body covered with second and third-degree burns. Five teen friends, one of them a mere 13, doused Brewer with alcohol and set him afire after Brewer snitched on a bicycle thief. The boy who led the attack was Matthew Bent, the son of Dennis Bent, who has a history of criminality and violence.
Richmond, California: A 15 year-old girl was gang-raped for over two hours during a high school homecoming while a dozen students watched. Although most students carry cell phones, none of the witnesses called for help. Some used their cell phone cameras to take commemorative photos. Social psychologists have coined the term "bystander effect" to describe this gross indifference to basic humanity, as though the application of a scientific-sounding label could explain the inexplicable. (At least they didn't use the word "syndrome.")
Mendota, California: Four year-old Alex Christopher Mercado was playing outside his home when a 14 year-old neighbor lured him into the neighboring house, drowned him, then stuffed the body into the dryer.
St. Martens, Missouri: Nine year-old Elizabeth Olten was found murdered in the woods. Police have taken into custody a 15 year-old girl, the older sister of Elizabeth's friend. The murder was planned; the accused described her preparations in a series of disturbing Twitter messages (recently removed). Commenters on a number of sites (including this one) have identified the accused as Alyssa Bustamante, although the name does not appear in press reports. In a Myspace blog entry dated December 14, 2008, Alyssa wrote a story which described a vicious assault on a "sweet, innocent young child" of eight named Elizabeth. Her YouTube profile lists "killing people, cutting" under "hobbies."
Pascagoula, Mississippi: Teenager Darwin Wells was convicted on October 29 of shooting Michael Porter, a 44 year-old man who had stopped at a gas station to ask for directions. Darwin was 16 when he committed the senseless murder; three teenaged friends were with him.
Winnepeg, Manitoba: Two teens (unnamed in press accounts), one of them a "petite girl," have been convicted of conspiracy to commit murder after they plotted to open fire on students in an auditorium. They also planned to use Molotov cocktails. The pair made a pact to kill each other if one party tried to back out of the plan. During sentencing, the young couple told the court that they were sorry.
Pontiac, Michigan: Two 15 year-old boys -- Thomas McCloud and Dontez Tilman, were convicted of murdering two homeless men in the 60s. (Tilman participated in only one of the killings.)
Philadelphia, PA: While out walking with friends, teenager Marcquis Walker-Williams, acting on a whim, decided to "catch a body" -- i.e., throw a punch and run. Walker-Williams killed Kwok Wai-Ho, 69. (According to the Urban Dictionary, "catch a body" is slang for murder.) At sentencing, Walker-Williams told the victim's family "We're Christians."
Yucaipa, California: A 16 year-old girl named Bianca Becerra, who had recently lost her infant son to illness, attended a Halloween party, where she was stabbed to death by another 16 year-old girl. The suspect's name has not yet been released.
Wells, Indiana: Four young men -- three of them teens -- are charged with killing Justin Sprow last Wednesday. Sprow was driving on a rural road when the assailants used their pickup truck to force Sprow to come to a stop. The assailants then fired shotguns into the vehicle.
Garden City, Kansas: A teenaged boy named Joaquin De Anda has been found mentally competent to stand trial for the murder of Julia Quintana, 16. Before dying of strangulation, she had been raped and sodomized; the body was dumped in a trash bin.
Cedear Rapids, Iowa: Teenager Tim Reynolds has been charged with shooting 38 year-old Christopher Pearson in the stomach. The victim survived. According to one report, the two had "an exchange of words" before the shooting. Midland, Michigan:Steven J. Pribbernow, 15, has been found competent to stand trial for stabbing and killing his 17 year-old adopted brother Justin. The body was found just outside the garage. Steven Pribbernow is also charged with attacking an adult male and two children, who had been taken from their biological parents because those homes were deemed unsafe.
Hamilton, Ontario: A 16 year-old, unnamed in Canadian press reports, received a 21-month sentence for participating in the vicious gang rape of a 15 year-old girl. It is instructive to compare that sentence to the situation presented in this video.
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But why? Movies and video games? They are certainly more violent than they used to be.
Or...?
(Of course, there are millions of very fine young people...)
djmm
posted by djmm : 8:27 PM
You might find these related essays of interest. I especially like this fellow's blog title: the power of narrative. Reality has been replaced with narrative...
In this most recent essay, I found his parallel between the onlookers of the gang rape and the onlookers of the tasering of that young man who questioned Kerry very striking. He's connecting some important dots.
posted by Zee : 8:52 PM
and...
Toronto, Ontario - A jealous teenage girl and her teenage boyfriend conspire to kill another teenage girl. They do, right outside of her home on New Years Day. (The victim's parents are cops.) - A 23-yr old woman is grabbed in the lobby of her apartment building and raped and robbed in the stairwell by 6 teenage boys.
It's bloody frightening.
And it feels like it's reaching the point of no return.
We have a young generation which is incredibly violent, and staying that way. They mar their flesh with grotesque body-piercings and tattoos. They favor brain-damaging recreational drugs. They think South Park is brilliant (see note on brain damage below). They can't write a decent song to save their lives. They pick crappy Presidential candidates--and fight dirty for them.
What a royal mess. Thank God there isn't a draft. I don't know how we'll take care of these young uns after the brain damage from cell phones kicks in.
You may be right Purple. I have heard of similar statistics. Violent crime is down over the last 20, 30 years. But we still have a problem here. Something is dreadfully wrong with some young people. I used to teach and couldn't even begin to relate to those kids. Not much was taboo with them, either. I think we are in the midst of some kind of mass mental illness. People are so extreme now, so unreserved, so willing to do anything. It is mind boggling. I think it is time for all Americans to just get back to the basics and leave this technologically advanced life style behind.
posted by gingerp : 7:29 AM
You just reinforced my hatred of and disgust with the human race, which, in my opinion, is a disease inflicted on the earth and the rest of its creatures. My friends and loved ones excepted, of course.
Jerome
posted by Anonymous : 7:32 AM
Another station stop on the Instant Gratification Railway? Don't pay off that two year old car, we'll add what you own onto your new loan. (forget that you will owe more than the combined value of both autos). Want that house but blew your down payment? We'll finance a zero down mortgage! (and bundle your worthless paper with others and sell it to some unsuspecting investors). Want your political philosophy or candidate to prevail? Lie, cheat, steal, it's all good to get them elected. (and end up with a Bush or Obama stinking up the joint). Restraint, the forgotten virtue, parents aren't instilling in their children. William Golding was on to something.
posted by MrMike : 8:08 AM
Joseph -- Im curious how did you pull this particular list? Was it as simple as Google News / teen + homicide? What time frame does it cover, about?
What kind of numbers are there on juvenile homicide over the last ten / 20 / 30 /100 years, any idea?
I personally call this what happens when adult society abandons boundaries on what the Almighty Consumer Advertising Dollar is allowed to target.
We now allows the product advertising vampire fully free access to juvenile minds in their elementary schools, kitchens, family rooms, sleep rooms and every imaginable entertainment venue.. every minute of every day of their conscious lives. No other civilized nation rolls so completely over for corporate consumer predation like that.
Developing minds know perfectly clearly when they have been abandoned to the tender mercies of the almighty machine. When we dont shelter them from predation, they know they have no value beyond to be stripmined for their pocket money, force-fed Coke PS2s and Miley Cyrus and jammed on into the consumer hopper to get ground up with the rest of us.
Alienation from the world is what a sociopath is all about.
On the other hand, violent children arent new. We could all really use some statistical context for this.
posted by Zach : 8:43 AM
I blame Clinton.
posted by Nibbles McGee : 9:37 AM
I still think these cases are anomaly's. Why not compile a list of police brutality? Especially with the use of Tasers?
Come on, let's be reasonable, Mr. Cannon. Every generation has it's share of scumbags. What, you don't think gang rapes happened in the 50s? My feeling is just that there weren't nearly as widely reported. Yes, there are violent kids now. There are also plenty of intelligent, hard-working kids who share the same values as the rest of us.
On the new "Stalinists": Watch out for that ice pick!
The bizarre race in New York's 23rd congressional district has engendered some equally bizarre commentary. In case you missed the news, here is a brief recap:
The 23rd district is rural, near the Canadian border, and has been safely Republican for ages. Needing a candidate to fill the vacant seat, a local Republican committee picked one Dede Scozzafava, a state assemblywoman with a conservative voting record. But it was not conservative enough on below-the-waist issues to please the tea-baggers, who decided to make a national example of Dede. After a wrenching intra-party fight, they "putsched" Scozzafava out, replacing her with one Doug Hoffman. He's a know-nothing carpetbagger, but he doesn't like gay marriage -- and that stance suffices to fetch him the Michele Bachmann/Glen Beck/Michelle Malkin stamp of approval.
To columnist Frank Rich of the NYT, this battle came as wonderful news. In a surreal column, Rich wrote:
The right’s embrace of Hoffman is a double-barreled suicide for the G.O.P. On Saturday, the battered Scozzafava suspended her campaign, further scrambling the race. It’s still conceivable that the Democratic candidate could capture a seat the Republicans should own. But it’s even better for Democrats if Hoffman wins. Punch-drunk with this triumph, the right will redouble its support of primary challengers to 2010 G.O.P. candidates they regard as impure. That’s bad news for even a Republican as conservative as Kay Bailey Hutchison, whose primary opponent in the Texas governor’s race, the incumbent Rick Perry, floated the possibility of secession at a teabagger rally in April and hastily endorsed Hoffman on Thursday.
The more rightists who win G.O.P. primaries, the greater the Democrats’ prospects next year. But the electoral math is less interesting than the pathology of this movement. Its antecedent can be found in the early 1960s, when radical-right hysteria carried some of the same traits we’re seeing now: seething rage, fear of minorities, maniacal contempt for government, and a Freudian tendency to mimic the excesses of political foes.
Rich writes as though that outbreak of pathology led to the Republican party's destruction. In fact, "fear of minorities" -- along with plenty of anti-government rhetoric, paranoia and inchoate rage -- pushed the south into the Republican camp, resulting in the Nixon presidency, the Reagan revolution, and the decades-long dominance of libertarian economics. Rage, unreason and appeals to race are strategies that work, at least on the right. (2008 proved that such tactics also skew left.)
The truly annoying aspect of this column is the fact that Rich himself, an alleged Democrat, is an old hand at intra-party bitch-fighting. BDBlue at Corrente links to this Bob Somerby column from 2006, which in turn provides links to many previous Daily Howler posts about Rich, who was one of the main mainstream trashers of Al Gore.
Somerby reminds us that it was Rich who invented the "Love Story" canard, which helped to create the utterly unfair media perception of Gore as a serial yarn-spinner. As you may recall, Gore was accused of lying when he said that he was the model for the protagonist of that book and film.
Let’s say it again—Rich was faking his basic facts in this damaging column (published on December 16, 1997). Two days earlier, his own New York Times had reported an interview with Love Story author Erich Segal—the only interview Segal gave on this fatuous topic. In this interview, Segal said that Gore had been one of the models for his book’s main character. (Segal knew Gore when Gore was in college.) In fact, in the interview (reported by Melinda Henneberger), Segal agreed with every word Gore said on the meaningless topic. But so what? Rich just knew what Gore had been doing in his fleeting remarks on this topic—remarks Gore had made to a pair of reporters. Mind-reading brilliantly, Rich clued us in. Gore had been “bragging” and “boasting,” Rich said. Gore had “inflated his past” in his comments; and Gore had done this in an “effort to overcompensate for his public stiffness by casting himself as the role model.” Uh-oh! As noted, Segal had already told the Times that Gore had been one of two role models. But Frankly, Rich had a better story, a story the brilliant pundit loved—and so he went ahead and told it.
Rich calls Beck and Bachmann "Stalinists" for trashing the GOP nominee in a hitherto obscure sector of upstate New York. Yet in the late 1990s, Rich himself tried to do unto Gore as Stalin did unto Trotsky: The swoosh of the ice pick, the sickening thunk as it sinks into the back of the head. Love means never having to say you're a bourgeois deviationist.
Let's return to the basic point of Rich's column. Have suicidal crazies overtaken the Republican Party? And if so, is that a good thing from the standpoint of Democrats?
Taking an anti-Obama stance in 2008 placed me on some strange mailing lists. A couple of days ago, I received a mass emailing from Richard Viguerie, the eminence grise of the tea bagger movement:
"The GOP leadership's backing of Ms. Scozzafava was a slap in the face to Tea Party activists, town hall protesters, and conservatives across the country. The Washington GOP establishment's abandonment of fiscal responsibility led directly to the election of Barack Obama as President and Nancy Pelosi as Speaker. The American people see the GOP leadership and establishment every bit as much a part of the problem as the Democrats.
"Doug Hoffman and NY-23 is an earthquake in American politics, and is the first of many challenges to establishment Republicans that we will see for the 2010 elections and beyond. The stupid decision by Republican leaders to pour $900,000 into the NY-23rd race against a conservative has unleashed a fury that will lead to new GOP leadership.
"Conservatives anger at Washington-establishment Republicans will cost the national committees tens of millions of dollars as conservative money will start flowing directly to the Tea Parties and their candidates.
What mainstream pundits fail to realize is that the two-party system has, in essence, digitized American politics. Everything comes down to ones and zeroes, on or off, Republican or Democrat. If Obama and Pelosi fail -- which they probably will -- Americans will turn again to the Republicans, because there's no place else to go.
Viguerie is making sure that when the conservative re-ascent occurs, his conservatives will be the ones ascending. He is branding teabag pols as rebels -- a good strategy, since many Americans are feeling mighty rebellious. He is also re-branding the Dubya crowd as liberals-in-disguise, which is both awful history and great marketing.
Is Viguerie crazy? Like the proverbial fox.
Is he suicidal? No.
Is his movement helpful to Dems, as Rich claims? Hell no.
Should liberals -- true liberals -- mimic his tactics? Should we have an intra-party insurgency staged by Democrats who despise Obama's talk-like-JFK-but-act-like-W shtick? Hell yes!
If Rich can maintain his mainstream cred after taking a rhetorical ice pick to Al Gore, then I have every right to use similar weaponry on Obama and the Obots.
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Rich's cred is Villager cred, since he is a Villager in good standing. As Somerby has explained at length, Villagers simply do not attack other Villagers, nor hold them accountable for anything they say. So guys like Frank Rich escape under cover of a code of omerta, with any mention of their complicity in unpleasant agendas white-washed from history by deliberate omission by their peers.
You are not a Villager, and therefore cannot avail yourself of their get-out-of-jail-free escape hatch.
Worse, you are a BLOGGER, and we know how the Villagers feel about that type.
XI
posted by Anonymous : 1:35 PM
Trotsky was murdered in Mexico by a NKVD agent using an ice axe, not an ice pick.
Wiki adds this tidbit:
According to James P. Cannon, the secretary of the Socialist Workers Party (USA), Trotsky's last words were "I will not survive this attack. Stalin has finally accomplished the task he attempted unsuccessfully before."
myiq, I'm wondering about that myself. There is some slight physical resemblance, but only slight. James Cannon came from Kansas. My father was born in Michigan; the family later migrated to Ohio. We lost contact with that side of the family after my Dad's death, due to animosity between his mother and my mother. So I have no-one to ask.
I will admit off the bat that I haven't been following the upstate NY off-year congressional battle, but it's strange because the comments I've read from liberals and progressives have all taken as gospel truth that Dede was fought by conservatives groups because of her liberal social views. Except, when I have actually read and listened to what said conservative groups actually say about why they oppose her, 90% plus of it is about her vote for the stimulus and her being a GOP establishment tool. Even the Viguerie quote in this post only mentions these two issues, not any "below-the-belt" social stuff.
Again, I very well could be missing something because I've just started reading about this race this past weekend, so maybe conservatives were saying all sorts of stuff about her liberal social views and all of a sudden stopped and switched to her fiscal record. Or, maybe they are lying about opposing her based on fiscal grounds. (Although, I can't for the life of me understand why they would. They are never usually shy about engaging in culture wars.) But, there's been an awful lot of steroptyping by liberals and progressives of conservatives - even people who are just fiscal conservatives - and even from those who I read regularly and respect like Cannon. So, I'll wait 'till I see more proof that it's knuckle-dragging neanderthals stuck in the 18th century who opposed Dede.
Also - I have to say, the frequent use of the word "teabaggers" is really disturbing. It makes me queasy every time I hear it because i know that bloggers and pundits who use it know the sexual act it refers to and branding a whole, pretty large, group of people that way is one reason I haven't been back here as regularly.
(Why not just call them the golden shower party or the dirty sanchez party? Would be about as relevant and as childish as calling them teabaggers. Also, I am not quite sure what I feel about one of my favorite bloggers feeling the need to follow a trend started by Jeneane Garofolo.)
posted by Anonymous : 5:06 PM
I like Bob Somerby's writing but don't go there too often as it is so depressing to read that the media hasn't changed for the better since I found his site some 10 years ago. One thing about the TEABAGGERS is they are motivated and will turn out to vote. In an off year where locally they are predicting 25% going to vote they can have a big impact.
posted by MrMike : 7:57 PM
My first thought when reading the quotes from Rich is that he has it all wrong. This can't be good. When the R's come back in power, and it is only a matter of when, that will mean more right wing lunatics in charge.
Do people like Rich even understand that this really isn't a war between D's and R's or red states vs. blue states. This is about getting the best possible government we can get to move our country forward and make the people's lives better. Whacked out politicians with whacked out ideas are never good for any of us.
They do not know if he possesses tenacity, the ability to fixate on a simple conviction and grip it, viscerally and unflinchingly, through complexity and confusion. They do not know if he possesses the obstinacy that guided Lincoln and Churchill, and which must guide all war presidents to some degree.
In other words, "they" want Obama to be more like Dubya. In other words, "they" are insane. Non-insane people argue that Obama has been too similar to his predecessor.
Neocons never understood Churchill's famed obstinacy, which was always tempered by reason. Churchill was a fierce opponent of Irish independence, yet he met with Michael Collins and signed the Anglo-Irish treaty of 1921. Originally an admirer of Mussolini's Fascism, Churchill became the world's staunchest opponent of fascism. Of the Empire, he proclaimed that "I will not preside over a dismemberment" -- but eventually he came to understand that he would have to do just that.
Churchill uttered one of my favorite axioms: "I am always ready to learn, although I do not always like being taught." When ideology collided with fact, he chose fact.
In Afghanistan, the harsh fact is that we have already lost the battle for hearts and minds. We are not loved, we are not liked, we are not respected, and we are not wanted.
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"In Afghanistan, the harsh fact is that we have already lost the battle for hearts and minds. We are not loved, we are not liked, we are not respected, and we are not wanted."
Now if somebody can just convince Obama of that, he might actually make a correct decision and get us the hell out.
Public support for staying in Afghanistan is a continuation of the absolute hubris of thinking that you know what's best for the people of a foreign region and can successfully nation build.
The people who actually make those foreign policy decisions only comprehend power and money. As long as there's something to pillage in Afghanistan (or its neighbors) that's worth the trouble of pillaging, our military will be there.
The only thing that will turn this around is a complete shift in power that demolishes US military and political influence. Starting a war with Iran might trigger this reversal when the slow-to-act nations in SW Asia finally see the writing on the wall and work together to expel the U.S.
posted by Zolodoco : 12:00 PM
It surely looks like it's going to hell, why be there when that happens is my question. My favorite night club song at the end of a long night of dancing is ...'you, you, you...get the f123 out!!! you, you, you...'
Who was it said,"Afghanistan is where empires go to die". Remember, the Russians failed and they were a lot more brutal that we could ever be. Bush should have kept his eye on the ball, wacked Usama then bailed.
Is Kim Jong Ill? A couple of posts down, we discussed the rumors that Bill Clinton met not with Korean dictator Kim Jong-Il but with an impersonator. The Christian Science Monitor takes the "double" theory seriously. Apparently, the North Korean dictator is seriously ill. If he's using a double, he may be doing so in order to stall for time, due to the lack of a clear successor.
What, no Mary? There is a surprising lack of after-action reporting on the Virgin Mary's predicted Halloween visit to Knock, Ireland, as discussed in an earlier post. Alleged clairvoyant Joe Coleman said that she would appear to one and all at 3 p.m. yesterday afternoon. As you might imagine, this prediction prompted the formation of a huge crowd -- 10,000 strong, by one estimate.
So what went down? Well, I'm not sure. Via Google News, one can find much snarky commentary, but the closest thing to actual "five-dubyas" journalism is this piece in the Irish Times -- which indicates that the Virgin, rather disappointingly, made an entirely subjective appearance seen only by Joe Coleman. And how did the crowd react? Were they disappointed? Ya got me!
Mary will make one more appearance before Christmas, or so says this site. I got a deep chuckle from this bit...
Good timing too by Our Lady after the dreadful Yes vote in the Lisbon Treaty. She also knows that the One World Plotters are about to impose their One World Dictatorship on us all with the significent signing of the Copenhagan Treaty in December which will move this Sinister Plot closer to our backdoor step. God help us!!!
Bet you didn't know that Mary was a tea-bagger, did you? I wonder if Richard Viguerie has her email address...
Halloween: Last night, I made my usual annual tour of various putative "real life" haunted locations throughout southern California. This year, I went all the way out to Colton, home of the spooked-up Agua Mansa Cemetery, an "old west" boot hill where La Llorona has been seen, or rather heard. She's not the only spectre in the area: According to local lore, people traveling down the adjacent Agua Mansa Road have often seen an alleged old ghost man walking his ghost dog.
As it turned out, I could not enter the cemetery. It had been commandeered by a merry band of occultists who placed guards at the gates to keep away uninvited riff-raff, of which there was a steady stream. Apparently, the city of Colton was cool with whatever ceremony these seekers of wisdom hoped to hold in that historic boneyard. Among the Halloween fun-seekers turned away at the gate were some hot girls in skimpy costumes. Jeez. Modern occultists are a lot stupider than they were in Aleister Crowley's day.
Not wishing to crash the party, I decided to take my Havanese hell-hound Bella for a walk down Agua Mansa Road. I was dressed as Uncle Fester, which is not too far removed from my usual look. Cars passed by -- and someone shouted: "Look! There's the dog!"
Perhaps Joe Coleman is reading this. Perhaps he just figured out how to prevent another Marian no-show in Ireland.
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If you are looking for haunted locations, try staying in The Stanley Hotel, Estes Park Colorado, preferably on the 4th floor. (The children and servants of the guests used to stay on that floor.) The rooms are smaller there but there is more activity of the ghostly kind. Of course, staying at The Stanley is harder to do around Halloween, now that TAPS found it, but it is nice there this time of year if you can do it. Or go in early October instead. I don't think the ghosts care about the dates.
In California, there is always The Del (Coronado, that is, San Diego).
djmm
posted by djmm : 2:55 PM
Ah, the Del. Always wanted to go, but it's way too rich for my blood.
I almost always save this stuff for Halloween. The spirit of the season, and all that. At most other times I'm a curmudgeon.
"The Kucinich Amendment": Doesn't that sound like the name of a thriller written circa 1976? In truth, the suspense is killing us -- if by "suspense" you mean policy. Nancy Pelosi's bill is better than That Thing From The Senate, but the House legislation lacks a provision allowing states to opt for a single-payer solution.
Although I won't publish Dennis Kucinich's plea for money, I must relay his words on the fate of his amendment...
On MSNBC, The Ed Show (October 30 2009), Congressman Kucinich stated that he is fighting to get single-payer back into the health care reform bill. Several members of Congress have signed a letter to House Speaker Pelosi requesting that the Kucinich Amendment be restored to the bill.
Congressman Kucinich declared that the American people are being mandated by private insurance ... if you read the bill ... and that people are going to end up paying."The insurance companies can raise rates up to 25% right off-the-bat if you read the language of the bill ..." This is a bailout for insurance companies based on tens-of-millions of Americans premiums. We must put the Kucinich Amendment for single-payer back into the health care bill.
