Though Joe's recent posts about Israel-Palestine have brought back some of our notorious crazies, other readers' comments have been thoughtful and informative. To those readers, I encourage you to consider donating to the site. It's gonna be a while yet before Joe's movie enters pre-production and he needs to eat something besides Taco Bell until then.
I left what I thought was a thoughtful, informative, and questioning comment about 3 posts down. It did not pass moderation evidently because it never showed up.
So now you money.
I am 'outta here.
bert in Ohio
posted by Anonymous : 3:19 PM
Taco Bell? He can afford TACO BELL??
What an elitist... ;-)
I'm eating a lot of (homecooked) rice n beans n pasta these days myself, but I'll drop some coin in the bucket as soon as I can.
Also, Joe has a movie about to go into pre-production? Are you serious? If so, I'm waaaay impressed.
posted by LandOLincoln : 3:34 PM
I'm broke and fundraising myself right now (unexpected financial fiasco), but I will definitely drop a tip when I get paid in a couple of weeks. Wish I could do more now.
bert, I don't recall deleting a comment by you. It might have happened by accident. That also happens in reverse -- which is why you sometimes see comments by crazy people get through.
Joe is making a movie?? :) Way cool. Now I can name drop..."Joe and I go waaay back" or, "I was his inspiration", maybe "Oh, I always knew he had the talent and I encouraged him"....seriously though, press on. We love ya!!!
posted by NoBama : 4:17 AM
Please do not eat Taco Bell. I had a neice work there and she told me the beef says Grade D. What is Grade D beef anyhow?
I'm not making a movie. I've written quite a few scripts, and several of them went on to festoon some of the finest round files in town. On only one occasion did I contribute dialogue to a film that was actually shot. The story is unimpressive but (perhaps) amusing, and so I may tell it one day.
Joe is such a liar. His movie is going to be great.
posted by Nibbles McGee : 3:31 PM
Joe, there's a rumor going around that it's the long-anticipated musical version of "Turds in Hell": Orgone the hunchback, pinhead, priapic sex maniac hero of this experimental epic re-enacts the classic tale of the search for a lost parent, traversing the worlds of angels, saints, devils, gamblers, gypsies, monks, nuns, and whores before being reunited with his mother, Turzahnelle, having encountered such colorful characters as Carla, the Gypsy Wildcat, Baron Bubbles in the Bathtub, Turtle Woman, Saint Frigid, and Saint Obnoxious along the way. High comedy, low comedy, classical rhetoric, and sublime poetry mix to produce an idiosyncratic and hilarious view of contemporary sexual mores. A sublime and liberating theatrical experience for the daring and demanding."
PSSST! Uh, hey Joe. I've been a dramatic artist for over...well, a long time and I once played Cousin Lyman in "Ballad of the Sad Cafe," so methinks the hunchback part would be a cakewalk. Whaddayasay Joe? Can ya' put in a word for me?
It's happening slowly, but it is happening. Blinkered American opinion is shifting. With each atrocity committed by the bloodthirsty Israelis, more Americans lose their ability to rationalize the inexcusable.
More to the point: for those who insist that others put themselves in the position of a resident of Sderot -- as though that will, by itself, prove the justifiability of the Israeli attack -- the idea literally never occurs to them that they ought to imagine what it's like to live under foreign occupation for 4 decades (and, despite the 2005 "withdrawal from Gaza," Israel continues to occupy and expand its settlements on Palestinian land and to control and severely restrict many key aspects of Gazan life). No thought is given to what it is like, what emotions it generates, what horrible acts start to appear justifiable, when you have a hostile foreign army control your borders and airspace and internal affairs for 40 years, one which builds walls around you, imposes the most intensely humiliating conditions on your daily life, blockades your land so that you're barred from exiting and prevented from accessing basic nutrition and medical needs for your children to the point where a substantial portion of the underage population suffers from stunted growth.
So extreme is their emotional identification with one side (Israel) that it literally never occurs to them to give any thought to any of that, to imagine what it's like to live in those circumstances.
The excuse for the current massacre of Palestinian civilians comes down to so-called "rocket attacks" on the border town of Sderot. Those attacks took 13 victims in eight years, and not one of the victims is recent. Adam Horowitz has been to Sderot:
But I was surprised to find that although the people of Sderot who I met wanted the missiles to end they understood that militarism would not protect them.
The people I met with were not calling for war, they were calling for negotiation.
Julia Chaitin, a senior lecturer at the Sapir Academic College near Sderot, has written these words:
And so this is an unnecessary, cruel and cynical war -- a war that could have been avoided if our leaders had shown courage during the months of the cease-fire to truly work toward creating better lives for people whose only crime is that they live in the south.
But I know the answer to our conflict will not come with this war. We will know peace only when we accept the fact that the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip have every right to lives of dignity. We will know peace only when we recognize that we must negotiate with Hamas, our enemy, even if we are devastated that the Palestinians did not elect a more moderate party to lead them. We will know peace only when our leaders stop considering our lives cheap and expendable, and help us create a beautiful, green Negev, free of fear and despair.
The current destruction of Gaza reminds me of the Ardeatine massacre of World War II. On March 23, 1944, Italian partisans in Rome launched an attack on a facist convoy, killing 28. Hitler ordered the reprisal killing of 50 Italian partisans for every dead fascist. The German security commander in Rome, Herbert Kappler, "downsized" this directive to a 10-to-1 ratio. As a result, 280 Italians (mostly civilians) were murdered in the Ardeatine caves, an atrocity which has lived in the annals of infamy.
Ten-to-one reprisal killings. During World War II. And people are still angry about it.
And now, in retaliation for 15 rocket attacks over the course of eight years, Israel has decided to massacre an entire civilian population. The proportions are much worse than 10-to-1, worse than Hitler's suggestion of 50-to-1.
And yet here in America, there are still people -- if we can use the term "people" to describe such pitiless brutes -- who would consider this "retaliation" against the Palestinians justified. Most of these brutes are not Jews but so-called Christian Zionists.
Consider the historical irony, as you compare Gaza to the Ardeatine massacre. Hitler was far kinder to the Italian partisans than Israel is to the Palestinians.
Too many Jews learned the wrong lesson from World War II. The victims of persecution came to equate strength with a willingness to persecute others. Like many other peoples in many other times and places, a large number of Jews were seduced into the false belief that the hardest heart beats longest.
But history teaches a very different lesson. Hitler's Germany did not last. The Third Reich was destroyed for its evil. Germany was divided like an earthworm. Yet it recovered. Who can deny that -- in the long run -- the best thing ever to happen to Germany was the eradication of its government and its (temporary) loss of national sovereignty at the end of World War II?
I'm afraid that it is far too late to realize Julia Chaitin's dream. I fear that the time for negotiation has passed.
Israel must be destroyed, just as Hitler's Germany was destroyed. All Jews throughout the world must forevermore rid themselves of the lunatic, racist dream of "Jewish state." Jews living in Israel will either agree to live in a single multi-ethnic democracy in which everyone ruled (directly or indirectly) by the government has an equal vote -- or they will die in their madness.
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Thank you, thank you, thank you from the bottom of my soul for this beautifully written post. This is an issue that has been front and center with me for 20 years (and I am neither Jewish nor Muslim), and expressed everything I wanted to say with far more eloquence.
Israel is a thuggish, apartheid country that needs to be brought--forcibly--into the modern century and decide that it will either join the common, decent, democratic human family, or perish. There is no other solution to this problem. And the two-state solution (which some Israelis favor) is just more of the same, with the same problems of territory and land and water rights--only a one-state solution will work. As to Israeli fears that allowing Palestinians full citizenship--and most important, the right of return for all Palestinian refugees--will lead to reprisals and backlash, all we can say is, ye have reaped the whirlwind.
Enough is enough. Israel must either grow up and stop behaving like a psychopathic and well-armed bully or the rest of the civilized world must,and will, shun it as a rogue state.
Sadly, only a complete reversal of American policy towards Israel can bring about this change, but that will require leadership that is apparently lacking at all levels of our government.As witness, our recent veto of the cease-fire as being "unfair to Israel." Perhaps we too can only be moved by a worldwide shunning and shaming into doing the right thing. At any rate, whatever it takes, the time is long overdue.
posted by DancingOpossum : 8:56 AM
A U.S. President could stop the massacre damn quick.
If Obama were so inclined and the least word of it leaked out, I think there would be non-amateur attempts to assassinate him.
As of right now, as I understand it, it will be another 12-36 hours before the UN can "get all the wording right," due to stallkig by Tony Blair and GW Bush, so the Israeli military and government have at least another couple of days to continue slaughtering innocent women, children and men.
Good report, Joseph. This is a terribly difficult situation to present rationally and well. about. Kudos.
There are a lot of Israelis who agree with you but, remarkably, their voices simply are not heard in the US. Even Olmert himself has acknowledged that Israel is in danger of becoming an apartheid state (it's there already, if you ask me), but if any prominent US politician were to utter these words...
And here's the problem: the US does not support Israel. It supports the most reactionary, right-wing, hardline factions of Israeli politics. For whatever reason, these factions have somehow succeeded in portraying themselves as the one, true voice of Israel, to the exclusion of the moderate, pro-peace forces. How that came about, how the Israeli moderates got shunted off to the sidelines in the US political discourse, is a mystery to me. I suppose part of it has to do with the end of the Cold War: back then, the US tended to keep Israel on a shorter leash so as to avoid provoking a nuclear war with the Soviets. That threat being gone, Israel has in effect been allowed to slip the leash even though we are still responsible for the damage it does.
You stated 15 rocket attacks in 8 years. What I heard on the news was something like 70 rocket attacks in the last 8 months.
If it has been only 15 rocket launches in 8 years, I would probably agree that is not enough to warrant an attack. However, if it has been 70 rocket attacks in the past 8 months, I would also agree that is something that has to stop.
Are there any ongoing internet diaries that briefly detail every day life in this area of the world rather than sweeping explanations that try to explain war in a soundbite?
What exactly are the humiliating things Palestinians are put through on a daily basis, what exactly are the life threatening situations the Israelis go through as well? Are the Palestinians really malnourished and have stunted growth, and if so, why exactly? If it is true, is there no way to communicate this to the world other than to let the Israeli's know by using violent means against them?
I wonder if this is the crisis Biden warned us about, predicting that Obama would do something his supporters would not approve of and asking their forbearance in advance.
Well, the crisis is here, Obama is showing himself to be a "good friend of Israel", his supporters are probably not liking that one bit, so the obvious question is: did Biden know of the Israeli offensive plans in advance, or was this just a lucky guess?
Very good question, Mike J. It does make one go "hmmmmmm...."
Alessandro, the straightforward facts you ask about are readily available but it's perhaps understandable that you're not aware of them given the completely pro-Israel bias of mainstream media reporting on the conflict.
But to start:
Here's a report from a coalition including Oxfam and Amnesty International that came out before the current conflict started, that details in extremely clear and distinct language the extent of Palestinians' suffering, which it calls a "humanitarian implosion":
Here's a detailed rebuttal of the claims put out by Israel's public relations team and government, about the current conflict, which finds most of them to be completely false--and also finds Israel guilty of war crimes on numerous counts, by the editor of the online journal Foreign Policy Journal:
You can find many articles that support everything these writers, and Joseph here, are saying, from a wide variety of sources: the conservative blog antiwar.com and the far-left magazine Counterpoint; in the clearly pro-Gaza Palestine Chronicle and in columns by Gideon Levy at the leading Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz.
In short, none of this is secret, or privy to a select few only, nor is it dependent on any particular political position. Critics of Israel aren't anti-Semitic or biased; they are just well-informed.
posted by DancingOpossum : 1:34 PM
thank you, joseph, for clearly and eloquently stating the reality of what is to come for Israel. I have no stake in this subject except wanting to live in a world where tolerance and dignity are the world's highest goal for humankind. windsun
posted by Anonymous : 1:51 PM
It's a sad day when Rense has been right all these years.
posted by MrX : 2:29 PM
There was a demonstration on campus today protesting the Israeli occupation of Palestine... "Israel what do you say, I charge you with genocide," was the most memorable chat. They also handed out little sheets, to which I confess I have NOT fact checked, but was still interesting:
- From 12/27/08 to 1/5/2009 541 Palestinians have been killed and more than 2500 wounded. My note: That is only 9 days!!!!) -Israel has the fourth most powerful military on earth. -Israel control all entrances and exits to Gaza, creating what is effectively a large open-air prison. It has routinely prevented food and medicine from entering Gaza, creating, according to relief agencies, "catastrophic" conditions. -Israel uses U.S. supplied F-16 fighter jets, Apache helicopters, and naval gunboats against a mostly unarmed population... and the onslaught continues. -American taxpayers give Israel $7 million PER DAY. It is one of the wealthiest nations. -While the media report Israeli violence as retaliatory, the fact is that in every cycle of violence Palestinians are killed first and in far greater numbers. -Israel declares that they are specifically hitting "terrorist" and "military" targets but it has bombed mosques, universities, and just recently a United Nations School. -International aid agencies warn of looming disaster on the Palestinians with supply shortage inflicting more suffering on families. -The U.N. special reporter for human rights in the occupied Palestinian territory, former Princeton law professor Richard Falk, calls what Israel is doing to the 1.5 million Palestinians in Gaza "a crime against humanity." http:www.un.org/unrwa
---back to my comment again--- From the oppressed to the oppressors in two generations... I think I have whiplash!
Ms. Vandal.
posted by Anonymous : 2:46 PM
Terrific post, Joseph. You have articulated what a lot of people have been thinking for years, especially here in New Mexico with its large Indigenous population.
A couple of days ago I heard a local antiwar activist on the radio, talking about a planned march and rally here in Albquerque in support of the Palestinian people. (Unfortunately I tuned in too late to hear when it was going to be, so I need to find out. I do remember her saying it would be coordinated with a nationwide day of protest, so I'm thinking it may be this coming weekend.)
Anyway, the activist--who is Jewish herself--was at some pains to draw the same parallel you have between Palestinians and Native Americans.
Earlier that same day, I heard Amy Goodman interview an Isreali man, apparently a resident of that city in southern Israel that's been getting the brunt of the Hamas rockets, the name of which city escapes me at the moment.
He said a rocket had fallen in his back yard that very day, and his children had been sleeping in their bomb shelter for over a week. He was an angry man.
However, his anger was directed at his own government; he was furiously angry with them. His sympathies, OTOH, were entirely with the Palestinians.
We're all Palestinians now.
posted by LandOLincoln : 2:53 PM
Avi Shlaim, an Oxford professor of international relations and a former member of the Israeli army, discussed in an article in the Guardian how Israel's actions against the Palestinians far outweigh anything that Palestinian militants have done.
"Militants from Hamas and Islamic Jihad kept launching Qassam rocket attacks against Israeli settlements near the border with Gaza... Under the circumstances, Israel had the right to act in self-defence but its response to the pinpricks of rocket attacks was totally disproportionate.... In the three years after the withdrawal from Gaza, 11 Israelis were killed by rocket fire. On the other hand, in 2005-7 alone, the IDF killed 1,290 Palestinians in Gaza, including 222 children."
"Israel prevented any exports from leaving the strip in clear violation of a 2005 accord, leading to a sharp drop in employment opportunities. Officially, 49.1% of the population is unemployed. At the same time, Israel restricted drastically the number of trucks carrying food, fuel, cooking-gas canisters, spare parts for water and sanitation plants, and medical supplies to Gaza."
Given that the United States has used its veto to prevent the UN Security Council from doing anything to criticise the Gaza massacre, it would be good if American diplomats were awarded persona non grata status too.
If organised Zionists in Venezuela or elsewhere give any kind of support (including propaganda support) to the terrorist forces committing this massacre, well it may be time to consider whether expelling them wouldn't also be a step forward.
Israel has now condemned Venezuela as a "terrorist state". (See the above link).
The line (and it is very clear) is as follows: 1) a world war has begun, 2) this war will dominate life, and will last for at least a generation, 3) there are only two sides: pro-Zionist or terrorist.
I suspect factions in various countries are scared to stick their necks out because of the possibility of rapid and dire economic consequences. Maybe some retired diplomats or former intelligence officers might say something, people like that. That's all. Otherwise the punishment may be bankruptcy, Iceland-style. Which is of course on the cards for many countries anyway, although it's hard to predict which ones.
Set the Venezuelan action against the pathetic attitude of the Egyptian government, who are refusing even to open the border to Gaza, i.e. are participating indirectly in the Zionist massacre.
Meanwhile the disgusting New York Times leads on 'Israelis honouring their fallen soldiers'.
As most readers of this blog will know, the Gaza massacre was not an 'unproportional' response to the loss of Israeli lives in rocket attacks. It wasn't even a response. On the contrary, the Zionists deliberately wrecked the ceasefire, as they deliberately wrecked the Palestine part of the Camp David agreement, and they deliberately wrecked the Oslo accords (hello 9/11). The Gaza massacre is strategic. Marwan Barghouti writes sense when he says it is also about showcasing weapons (including depleted uranium), but that isn't the be-all and end-all.
In which context...
The film 'Defiance' has just been released in America and premières in London tomorrow. It's being massively advertised on hoardings in London. Comments?
People are wittering on in the UK saing Marks and Spencer might go bust. It won't. Look at all those premises, on every high street and now on dozens of important transport routes (motorways) and hubs (railway terminals). The government minister in charge of 'relations with the City of London', Paul Myners (appointed at the same time as Peter Mandelson) used to be at Marks and Spencer. A former head of MI5, Stella Rimington, became a director of Marks and Spencer. They won't go bust any more than Halliburton will. Except maybe as a scam.
b
posted by b : 3:26 AM
Anonymous, those facts on the leaflet you were handed at the rally -- sadly and shockingly, all true. The only ones in contention are the size of Israel's army (some sources I've read say it's the third largest in the world, not the fourth) and the amount of $$$ we give them. Yeah, minor difference. Either way, yes, most of its weaponry is paid for or supplied by the U.S.
Israel is also notable for being the only "democracy" to continue trading with apartheid South Africa when the rest of the world was boycotting it. Kindred spirits? Politicians and historians have drawn parallels between Israel and apartheid South Africa for decades.
posted by DancingOpossum : 6:55 AM
Sorry but the fact Israel is being attacked is enough. They have a right to defend themseves and because of anti-semitism in the Middle East, they cannot back down from groups which wish to destroy them. It's 3k of 1.5M. Clearly Israel could kill more.
Are these pictures of the nursing home in Israel that was bombed???
posted by Anonymous : 10:13 AM
I just love it when people harp about "antisemitism in the Middle East," as if the Arabs themselves weren't Semites. LOL!
posted by LandOLincoln : 12:56 PM
Why does a fascist ethnic-supremacist regime have the right to defend itself?
I don't support the killing of anyone, but I despise arguments based on the right to exist of ethnic-supremacist regimes. Israel should go into the dustbin of history along with the American Confederacy.
The problem with arguing by shouting things is that often what's being hollered is only shouted because it's misdirectional or false.
Cf. "Jerusalem is the eternal and indivisible capital of Israel", a vile line euphorically proclaimed by Barack Obama. In fact, I don't think any country in the world recognises de jure Israeli sovereignty over any part of Jerusalem, east or west. Certainly the US, UK, Russia, France, and China don't. And obviously it is divisible, just as any other city is.
Cf. 'terror' and 'terrorism', when the biggest terrorist force in the region is patently obviously the State of Israel.
posted by b : 1:11 PM
From the Desk of Ms. Vandal:
@DancingOpossum, The leaflet said "most powerful" not largest. Is it possible that they are the third largest, but the fourth most powerful due to some technology we have not given them yet?
I profess a huge deficit in knowledge about this region and the politics of Middle East, preferring to the study of the Middle East as it pertains to the time of the Roman Empire (ancient history is my new thing).
But the Middle East is a quagmire that stems from the beginning of recorded time... conflict has always existed there. And that is not going to change no matter how you draw the figment lines on a map. There is no elegant final solution.
Israel, as a country, is much younger than our own, yet as a nation, far older. They are fueled by some rationale we cannot fathom. Is there any parallel in United States history that allows us to relate to this current situation? (and my answer is, I certainly hope not, but then again, I am an optimist).
Thank you for letting me vent.
posted by Anonymous : 5:52 PM
Thank you for a great article and although I disagree with you on a point or two I'll say this, you mostly nailed it and that in today's sad excuse for journalism is a coup!
Glad to see the MegaPhone crowd is trying to react to your well written article. You can always tell a MegaPhone poster :)
Check it our yourself: http://giyus.org/
Megaphone can be used to counter Israeli mass propaganda efforts on the web,
posted by Anonymous : 9:47 PM
the cease fire was broken on nov 5th by israel. no one in the u.s. noticed because everyone was voting for (chump) change.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KntmpoRXFX4
posted by Anonymous : 10:25 PM
The bible tells us that from the very first creations, man was born to kill ( from the first two brothers , onward).
It looks like from thereon war was good for business that has only gotten worse.
"war is a racket"
posted by Anonymous : 10:26 PM
the cease fire was violated by israel on november 5th to coincide with the u.s. elections.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KntmpoRXFX4
posted by Anonymous : 10:28 PM
I am a Canadian citizen. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which serves as the legal basis for our society, has equality for all races and religions as one of it's principle tenets. Could any readers hazard to guess why the current Canadian government offers unconditional support for the nation of Israel, a nation state that confers the rights of citizenry to a specific ethno-religious group? Does the West still require a military outpost in the form of a nation state to keep the arabs down? I say this in reference to a hundred year old policy of the British, that of driving a wedge between the African and Asian arabs. At this stage of the game, all Israel is doing is enraging the Arabs living under decrepit old shit-bags like Mubarak, which would seem to undermine the position of the Anglo-American financial block.
posted by Anonymous : 10:52 PM
Don't ever forget - the Egyptian high-ups made lots of money supplying cement for the apartheid wall, and Abbas and his friends did too. That's why Abbas lost the election, and had to be putsched back with American help (on behalf of Israel). Mubarak is such a puppet of America and Israel that he won't even open the border to a civilian population in a neighbouring region who are being massacred. A similar point could be made about Abbas. But today is Friday and who knows what will happen this afternoon when normally something like a quarter of a million people go to the Haram al-Sharif (Temple Mount) for prayers.
b
posted by b : 3:33 AM
Thanks for exposing the shift in opinion.
Israel is a fat spoiled child who is totally out of control.
Don't forget you - me - all of us have a vote . Yes - it's a democratic world . If you don't agree with the conflict - if you think both sides are part of the problem - that both sides need their heads bashed together - that both sides need to grow up - then you can indicate this . When you are shopping at the supermarket etc. - check where the goods are produced and then make a decision as to whether to buy or to look for an alternative .
posted by Anonymous : 7:45 AM
"the cease fire was broken on nov 5th by israel. no one in the u.s. noticed because everyone was voting for (chump) change."
bwahahaha...laughing through tears at that.
And b, I think what Hugo Chavez did is admirable. Venezuela has long supported the Palestinian cause as have most civilized countries.
10. When you approach a city to wage war against it, you shall propose peace to it.
11. And it will be, if it responds to you with peace, and it opens up to you, then it will be, [that] all the people found therein shall become tributary to you, and they shall serve you.
12. But if it does not make peace with you, and it wages war against you, you shall besiege it,
13. and the Lord, your God, will deliver it into your hands, and you shall strike all its males with the edge of the sword.
14. However, the women, the children, and the livestock, and all that is in the city, all its spoils you shall take for yourself, and you shall eat the spoils of your enemies, which the Lord, your God, has given you.
15. Thus you shall do to all the cities that are very far from you, which are not of the cities of these nations.
16. However, of these peoples' cities, which the Lord, your God, gives you as an inheritance, you shall not allow any soul to live.
17. Rather, you shall utterly destroy them: The Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivvites, and the Jebusites, as the Lord, your God, has commanded you.
Joshua 11: 10-14
10 And Joshua turned back at that time, and took Hazor, and smote the king thereof with the sword: for Hazor beforetime was the head of all those kingdoms.
11 And they smote all the souls that were therein with the edge of the sword, utterly destroying them; there was none left that breathed; and he burnt Hazor with fire.
12 And all the cities of those kings, and all the kings of them, did Joshua take, and he smote them with the edge of the sword, and utterly destroyed them; as Moses the servant of the LORD commanded.
13 But as for the cities that stood on their mounds, Israel burned none of them, save Hazor only--that did Joshua burn.
14 And all the spoil of these cities, and the cattle, the children of Israel took for a prey unto themselves; but every man they smote with the edge of the sword, until they had destroyed them, neither left they any that breathed.
* * *
As you read, keep in mind that this story is about land theft, pure and simple. The Lord is here the ultimate fall guy, the original Nuremburg excuse: "Hey, we didn't want to commit genocide; we were only following orders."
Yes, yes, this all happened a very long time ago. I understand that. I understand that no person alive today can be held responsible for things said and done then. I also understand that serious questions of historicity surround this text.
Even so, this narrative remains relevant to current debates over the Israeli/Palestinian question, because -- when the proverbial push comes to the proverbial shove -- Israel's apologists point to the Old Testament when they insist that a Jewish state must exist there and nowhere else. Few would contemplate any suggestion to purchase an equal-sized chunk of real estate in a fertile region of Africa, South America, Canada, or wherever. As several wags have noted, David Ben Gurion did not believe in God -- yet he believed that God gave Israel to the Jews.
One of my critics cast aspersions on the Koran as a "racist" book. In my youth, I tried to read (or at least sample) all the scriptures considered sacred -- the Analects of Confucius, the Upanishads, the Gita, various Mahayana texts, the Old and New Testaments. I must confess that I did not get very far into the Koran -- which is reportedly much more impressive in the original. Is that book racist? I don't know. All I can honestly say is that I found it dull.
(For some reason, I never even tried to read the Tao. My bad.)
In my explorations, I have never found any other "sacred" text dripping with the inexcusable bloodlust and hate one can find in the Old Testament. My sympathies now lie with the Gnostics, who considered much of that book evil. (Incidentally, Gnosticism originated within the Jewish community in Alexandria, a group no-one can call anti-Semitic.) Any Jews who want to insult the Islamic holy book should feel free to do so -- but they would make a more persuasive case if their own "sacred" work were not so indefensible.
No Jew ever had a right to the land now called Israel. Not Solomon, not David, not Jesus, not Ariel Sharon. None of them. Of course, as I always quickly admit, I have no particular right to park my capacious hindquarters on land that belongs to the Chumash.
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Israel should turn Gaza into a desert and call it peace.
By the way, that image based on a Nazi with a Star of David IS anti-Semitic -- and that's coming from a non-Jew
posted by Anonymous : 1:50 PM
You can buy the land, you can sell the land, you can not make the land. You can leave the land and take the people to sell and buy on other land where you kill the people who have the land where you sell the people you take from the land you took before. You can leave the people and the land when you take the things they make or find or took from people in other lands they either sold, bought or left depleted. If you decide to do these things you can always find some way to feel good about it. And other people who buy land from people who don't own it or kill them if they don't sell it, or take them somewhere else and sell them, or take their things, will always back you up. So will the people who benefit from what you do. And, it's always been that way.
Turn it into a desert you say? lol it is the views of people like you, that encourage and help foster the idea of state sponsored terrorism as we have today in Israel! Stop calling anything anti Israeli as anti-semtic, speaking the truth is by no means a form of hatred, or do you happen to forget that the palestinians are Semites as well! Stop the killing, stop the murdering of innocent women and children!
posted by Anonymous : 11:14 PM
You are normally pretty smart. But on this issue you are rapid and stupid. Just one question for the hell of it: Why are there Arabs and yes "Palestinians living all over Isreal? Were they ever barred? No. Was any Palestian forced into Gaza? When did Palestinians start suicide bombing Isrealis? Why are there no Jews in an Arab country. Can you show me any pattern or even numerically significant incidence of Jewish citizens murdering Paleestinians? If China was supplying weapons to Chinatown to fire rockets into Little Italy for some grievance they had, should Mayor Bloommberg care? Can you think straight when you watch someone else's wars from your living room? Do you think the warring parties are concerned with your perspective on it? Sorry but you can see how easy it is to generate questions about your olympian opinions on this issue about which you are unqualified to judge - being basically stupid about it. You draw okay. And you're a genius.
posted by Anonymous : 7:01 PM
Let's just give the Israelis Wyoming. I suggested that rhetorically once, intending to make the point that the cowboys and pseudo-cowboys there would surely resent it. But the more I think about it the more sense it makes. I'd like to see what they'd do with it. We're not using it, and most of it is federal land anyway. Cut off military aid, and I wonder how many of the 7 million Israelis would move to Wyoming?
posted by Anonymous : 2:15 PM
Peter of Lone Tree, the way Israel is murdering children and women in Gaza, I believe, and I'm sure, your list of '109 Locations' will soon count 110. The 'Expulsion' you've referred to, in fact started long before AD 250, thousands of years before, when Pharoah drove the Israelis out of Egypt. Do you ever wonder why that happened and continuous even to this age? Try more of these keywords: Lehmann Brothers etc, Madoff, USS Liberty, Talmud, Greater Israel, Goyim...
Joseph...can you imagine how much more horrible this would have been if THIS had happened! http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/washington/11iran.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1
Once the Changeling takes office, given all his promises to AIPAC, it still may.
On October 26, 2007, in Minneapolis, Minnesota, former President Bill Clinton was heckled during a speech by a man claiming that the September 11 attacks were a fraud and mentioning the Bohemian Club. Clinton denied the 9/11 claim and then sarcastically added, "Did you say the Bohemian Club? That's where all those rich Republicans go up and stand naked against redwood trees right? I've never been to the Bohemian Club but you oughta go. It'd be good for you. You'd get some fresh air." The heckler was escorted out of the hall as Clinton made his remarks.
Porky pale Dicks Cheneying the redwoods--now there's an image I could do without. Somebody pass the brain bleach, STAT!
posted by LandOLincoln : 9:08 AM
HA ha ha!! Good on Clinton. The more I read about him the more I love him.
posted by DancingOpossum : 10:12 AM
If I know 9/11 Truthers, the strategy was to trick Clinton into blurting out the truth. This is a Truther's idea of a brilliant plan.
Clinton was going to snap--as in the climax of a really bad movie--and sputter, "Oh all right, damn it! ALL RIGHT! 9/11 was an inside job. Our plot has been foiled by this guy shouting at me here. You Truthers are just too clever for us."
Oh come on. The Bohemian Club (on Taylor and Bush??) there are no naked men leaning on redwoods at the Bohemian Club(!) really, can you imagine a bunch of naked (republican) men hanging around a club in SF? Market/Castro is like 5 miles the other way....
Unless you think that the Sempervirens, Stowaways and Cavemen like to also hang out at the Pilsner Inn or End Up. Ha ha ha right ...in leather!
Former congressman Leon Panetta, who functioned as Clinton's Chief of Staff, has been named to head the CIA.
I'm both stunned and amused. When Panetta was a congressman from California, one of his constituents was arch conspiracy theorist Mae Brussell, who, though liberal in her basic stance, held a cynical attitude toward just about every well-known politician, regardless of party. When asked to name an office-holder whom she admired, she replied "Leon Panetta."
He was one of the few people in politics whom she did not accuse of being in the pocket of the CIA. (At least, not to my knowledge.) And now he's going to run the shop!
“He will bring a wealth of knowledge of the government to the C.I.A. post and an outside perspective that I think might be helpful at this juncture in the C.I.A.’s history,” said Lee Hamilton, the former chairman of the House Intelligence Committee and a co-chairman of the Iraq Study Group.
Hamilton, whom I have long disliked, is the guy I thought would snag the post, if only because he is so compromised. But if Hamilton is compromised, then his praise of Panetta means...well, I'm not sure what it means.
The selection of George H.W. Bush as DCI was the last time an administration chose an "outsider" to run the CIA. Everyone now acknowledges that Bush was not an outsider at all; he had a long and secret history with the agency.
Welp, Larry Johnson seems to be pretty happy with the choice of Panetta, and his reasons are interesting, to say the least. I'd post the link but as I recall, you're a mite touchy about that. ;-)
posted by LandOLincoln : 6:35 PM
You can link to Johnson. I agree with him about the militarization of intelligence. This was, in fact, my argument against the choice of Hayden as DNI.
All the Clinton crowd now serve under Obama, not a Clinton... What happens if they think he's going off the rails?Do they quit?Do they stay and "whore" themselves? Do they get fired if Obama begins to feel arrogant a al Bush and decides he knows best??
"Panetta’s management skills can’t be questioned. As White House chief of staff, he held one of the toughest management jobs around. But the man has no background whatsoever in intelligence. Why?" Adfero Group (beltway types) http://tinyurl.com/95otyc
Why? Because he hasn't drunk the Cool Aid that's why. Peter Dale Scott's excellent, "The Road to 911," examines long term momentum for bureaucratic initiatives that really have no outside constituencies. There are plenty of those and they have to be stopped. Panetta is also "the smartest guy in the room" or knows how to handle the smartest guy. Compare this appointment to Tenet and Freeh. It's an excellent move.
Penetta, Chu, and the "lune whisperer" Richardson are the only bright lights in the cabinet for me. Oops, somebody got Richardson. But who? Interesting development. The one guy who can work with the worst is tossed overboard.
Wondering if Leon is "in the know" on all that really bad stuff that took place down there in Poway, as all those folks under indictment will be coming to trial soon? The cocaine importation agency lives on.
Does any else find it amusing that Bill Richardson will not be able to take a post as Commerce Secretary in the Obama administration due to a pay-to-play scandal?
Obviously, the people who recognize the existence of that scandal must be anti-Hispanic bigots.
Angry about Israel's actions?Here's a list of companies that do business with Israel, and here is a primer on divestment.
"Emotional blackmail": Israeli Speaker of the Knesset Avrum Burg tells Time magazine, vis-a-vis Yad Vashem...
It's an emotional blackmail that says to people, this is what we have experienced, so shut up and help us...
Why is that any non-Jew who makes such a statement is automatically denounced as an anti-Semite?
These words also carry wisdom:
Look where we were 100 years ago and look where we are today — no other people made this transformation. Imagine we did not keep the shadow of the trauma looming over ourselves daily, what could we have been? How come 25% of the Nobel laureates in certain fields are of Jewish origins, and 10% of the arms deals around the world are done by Israelis? Why is my brother or sister in America a great poet or composer or physician whose achievements raise up all of humanity, and I who live here on my sword became a world expert on arms and swords? Is that really my mission, or is that an outcome of the black water with which I water my flowers? To make our contribution to humanity, we have to free ourselves of the obsession with the trauma.
Al Franken will be the new Senator from MN. The good news is that he is preventing the corrupt Coleman from continuing. The bad news is that an election this close will always seem illegitimate to members of the losing party.
Poppy Bush says that he would love to see Jeb become president one day -- but not right now, "because we've had enough Bushes in there." I've spent the past few minutes trying to think of some way to turn that into a dirty joke, only to realize that the comment is funny enough as it stands.
On Ebay, you can buy a pita which miraculously bears the face of Jesus. As one wag has noted, this is a case of robbing pita to PayPal.
Permalink
What did Jesus look like? I doubt that the pita looks like a Jew, and I'm almost certain the face resembles an Italian.
posted by Anonymous : 11:26 AM
what bother me about Jews is that no matter what country they live in they still identify themselves as Jews. Their assimilation with other ethnicities seemed to be so superficial. When ever any jewish person accomplishes something he/she is a jew not American. English or Russian. The fact that they live in the most racist country and still it is identified as a democratic state is a stark testement to their influance.
posted by Anonymous : 12:58 PM
One company worth mentioning that's omitted from that list is Caterpillar. They make the bulldozers that demolish Arab houses in Palestine. They also make equipment used in building the apartheid wall.
There is currently a massive Zionist PR effort to distract attention from Israeli aggression in Gaza. Haaretz reports that the Israeli Foreign Minister has instructed ministry officials currently on vacation in Israel to return immediately to their posts abroad, and to start local PR campaigns, focusing on both directly on the media and on public officials.
Here's an example of the "product"...
Today the BBC gave radio airspace to the Zionist Community Security Trust , whose spokesperson said that in the past week there has been a big rise in "anti-Semitic incidents" and that most of them were "related to Gaza".
The programme makers didn't even bother to get the police to take part. They cops do actually monitor ethnically-motivated and ethnically-aggravated assaults and other crimes. But never mind about them. Either the BBC asked them to participate, and they declined. But why might that be? Or, of course, they may not have approached the police in the first place.
The CST describe themselves as being at their "second highest level of alert".
I wouldn't be surprised if this sort of story has got a lot of legs...and not just in the UK...
The message being to amalgamate anti-Semitism with criticism of Israeli state crimes in Gaza.
Lastly: one event that's not being reported widely at all in the west is the American use of the veto against a motion at the United Nations Security Council calling for a ceasefire in Gaza. They used the veto on 3 January 2009.
The reason the US spokesperson gave was that such a resolution would be useless because "Hamas" wouldn't abide by it! I'm not kidding!
b
posted by b : 1:41 PM
Joseph, I applaud you for writing about the aggression of the Israeli government - not of the Jews, as some seem to believe, but of the Israeli government.
Israeli forces are now firing white phosphorus shells into the densely populated Gaza Strip:
'The Geneva Treaty of 1980 stipulates that white phosphorus should not be used as a weapon of war in civilian areas, but there is no blanket ban under international law on its use as a smokescreen or for illumination. However, Charles Heyman, a military expert and former major in the British Army, said: “If white phosphorus was deliberately fired at a crowd of people someone would end up in The Hague. White phosphorus is also a terror weapon. The descending blobs of phosphorus will burn when in contact with skin.” '
Thanks for posting that information on divestment from Israel. I have long, long been sickened and repulsed by Israel's treatment of the Palestinians and this latest move fills me with despair. It's good to be able to know how to take action.
"What did Jesus look like? I doubt that the pita looks like a Jew"
If Jesus was Jewish, why the Spanish name ???
posted by Anonymous : 7:01 AM
“If white phosphorus was deliberately fired at a crowd of people someone would end up in The Hague."
Would that that were so! But that wouldn't happen if they were acting for America or Israel...and maybe not even if they weren't...
White phoshorus has been used as an anti-personnel weapon by the Americans in Iraq, and also in Iraqi Kurdistan by Saddam Hussein. The American armed forces initially denied using it, but then said they only fired it at "insurgents". It has also been used by Zionist forces against Arabs in the Lebanon - and by the American army in Vietnam.
Watch for 'news' reports that pull the usual trick of obscuring the issue by using technical terms that viewers and readers are supposed to adopt submissively instead of making healthy generalisations that go a little better to the point. White phosphorus is essentially nothing new. Used against people, it's a chemical weapon, even if it hasn't officially been classified as such by the Chemical Weapons Convention.
This idea that the Zionist entity is in such grave danger that everything it does against subhuman enemies is justified...just how much longer is this crap going to have any mileage? Some of the Jewish people I've encountered who come out with such a line on the internet are, by standards any decent person would apply, rabid pro-murder pro-terrorist crazies consumed by Nazi-style racist hatred.
But at least the old argument about how Israel compares with South Africa is now settled. The apartheid regime in South Africa didn't attack bantustans and townships with tanks, air strikes, etc. etc.
Lastly, Joe - you talk about letting the Israeli regime "swim" - i.e. presumably America letting them do this. But they are more tooled up than even Barghouti recognises in that piece. Israel doesn't depend on some reversible decision by independent America to support them.
According to Martin van Creveld, the Israeli military strategic theorist who is required reading in the US officer corps, "most European capitals are targets for our air force [...] We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under."
Mordechai Vanunu has said the warheads are targeted at American cities as well as ones in Europe.
Van Creveld has also called Israel the "second or third" strongest military power in the world.
But it's stronger than even that scary statement implies. After all, it's an Israeli security firm (Magal) that provides the security at American nuclear weapons and nuclear power installations. No American firm does the same in Israel. American money does not have the same influence in Israeli politics as pro-Israeli Jewish money does in America. And so on.
Somebody - from memory, I think it was Van Creveld - said that the only country that could take on Israel militarily was America. But he was wrong - they couldn't! (Of course it would all depend on what their respective objectives were, but assume a reasonable amount of military common sense on both sides).
After the 2005 terror attacks in London, Ephraim Halevy called for a world war, and for major cultural changes in accordance with that. Sadly this looks like how it's going to be.
In these terrible times, can someone tell me what might realisticaly make more headway than a diffuse but global rise in small acts of resistance against Zionist forces and companies etc., wherein any violence, if employed, is of course directed against property only?
It's all right advocating divestment. But I don't own any shares in companies that trade with Israel. I don't own any shares in any companies! But like most people I do spot Caterpillar vehicles all over the place...
One British-based firm that should be mentioned is Marks and Spencer, which has the support of the Zionist regime as one of its principal objectives.
I haven't received permission to reprint this piece, which originally appeared on December 29 in The Huffington Post. Since Huffpo seems apologetic about their decision to publish, I will presume that the piece may disappear from that site.
The author, Mustafa Bargouthi, stands a good chance of becoming the next president of Palestine.
I will add this observation:
Here in America, we have recently endured a vicious political campaign in which many "progressives" argued that anyone refusing to support Barack Obama must be racist. These simpletons cannot conceive of any other reason for someone like me to oppose a product of the corrupt Chicago political machine. (For more proof of Obama's corruption, note this.)
Try this experiment: Remind an Obama-supporting lefty that 47 percent of the electorate voted for the Republican, in an election year that should have been a Democratic landslide. How many seconds will elapse before said lefty utters the word "racism"?
Now try this cognate experiment: Ask the average Israel-supporting American to consider the arguments made by Bargouthi. How many seconds will pass before you hear the word "anti-Semitism"?
The simple fact is that everyone in the world hates occupying forces and will resort to violence in order to dislodge them. The simple fact is that the Israeli government has no right to tell the Palestinians in Gaza what to do or for whom to vote.
If anyone but Jews ran the tyrannical Israeli government, it would have been wiped out ages ago.
Israel as presently constituted -- a state controlled by a single ethnic group -- must end, just as Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union ended. The current nation must be replaced by a true multi-cultural democracy. (I speak of a single state; the "double state solution" will probably never work.) If the Jews in Israel cannot abide pluralism -- if they cannot forego the racist dream of a state in which only Jews rule other Jews, if they continue to force the Palestinians to live under the point of the gun and the heel of the boot, if they refuse to understand that a longstanding policy of ethnic cleansing has erased Israel's right to sovereignty -- then let them swim. Israelis have embarked on a suicidal course, and those who prefer suicide to tolerance have no claim to victimhood.
* * *
Palestine's Guernica and the Myths of Israeli Victimhood
Mustafa Barghouthi
The Israeli campaign of 'death from above' began around 11 am, on Saturday morning, the 27th of December, and stretched straight through the night into this morning. The massacre continues Sunday as I write these words.
The bloodiest single day in Palestine since the War of 1967 is far from over following on Israel's promised that this is 'only the beginning' of their campaign of state terror. At least 290 people have been murdered thus far, but the body count continues to rise at a dramatic pace as more mutilated bodies are pulled from the rubble, previous victims succumb to their wounds and new casualties are created by the minute.
What has and is occurring is nothing short of a war crime, yet the Israeli public relations machine is in full-swing, churning out lies by the minute.
Once and for all it is time to expose the myths that they have created.
1. Israelis have claimed to have ended the occupation of the Gaza Strip in 2005.
While Israel has indeed removed the settlements from the tiny coastal Strip, they have in no way ended the occupation. They remained in control of the borders, the airspace and the waterways of Gaza, and have carried out frequent raids and targeted assassinations since the disengagement.
Furthermore, since 2006 Israel has imposed a comprehensive siege on the Strip. For over two years, Gazans have lived on the edge of starvation and without the most basic necessities of human life, such as cooking or heating oil and basic medications. This siege has already caused a humanitarian catastrophe which has only been exacerbated by the dramatic increase in Israeli military aggression.
2. Israel claims that Hamas violated the cease-fire and pulled out of it unilaterally.
Hamas indeed respected their side of the ceasefire, except on those occasions early on when Israel carried out major offensives in the West Bank. In the last two months, the ceasefire broke down with Israelis killing several Palestinians and resulting in the response of Hamas. In other words, Hamas has not carried out an unprovoked attack throughout the period of the cease-fire.
Israel, however, did not live up to any of its obligations of ending the siege and allowing vital humanitarian aid to resume in Gaza. Rather than the average of 450 trucks per day being allowed across the border, on the best days, only eighty have been allowed in - with the border remaining hermetically sealed 70% of the time. Throughout the supposed 'cease-fire' Gazans have been forced to live like animals, with a total of 262 dying due to the inaccessibility of proper medical care.
Now after hundreds dead and counting, it is Israel who refuses to re-enter talks over a cease-fire. They are not intent on securing peace as they claim; it is more and more clear that they are seeking regime change - whatever the cost. (To read the rest, click "Permalink" below)
3. Israel claims to be pursuing peace with 'peaceful Palestinians'.
Before the on-going massacre in the Gaza Strip, and throughout the entirety of the Annapolis Peace Process, Israel has continued and even intensified its occupation of the West Bank. In 2008, settlement expansion increased by a factor of 38, a further 4,950 Palestinians were arrested - mostly from the West Bank, and checkpoints rose from 521 to 699.
Furthermore, since the onset of the peace talks, Israel has killed 546 Palestinians, among them 76 children. These gruesome statistics are set to rise dramatically now, but previous Israeli transgressions should not be forgotten amidst this most recent horror.
Only this morning, Israel shot and killed a young peaceful protester in the West Bank village of Nihlin, and has injured dozens more over the last few hours. It is certain that they will continue to employ deadly force at non-violent demonstrations and we expect a sizable body count in the West Bank as a result. If Israel is in fact pursuing peace with 'good Palestinians', who are they talking about?
4. Israel is acting in self-defense.
It is difficult to claim self defense in a confrontation which they themselves have sparked, but they are doing it anyway. Self-defense is reactionary, while the actions of Israel over the last two days have been clearly premeditated. Not only did the Israeli press widely report the ongoing public relations campaign being undertaken by Israel to prepare Israeli and international public opinion for the attack, but Israel has also reportedly tried to convince the Palestinians that an attack was not coming by briefly opening crossings and reporting future meetings on the topic. They did so to insure that casualties would be maximized and that the citizens of Gaza would be unprepared for their impending slaughter.
It is also misleading to claim self-defense in a conflict with such an overwhelming asymmetry of power. Israel is the largest military force in the region, and the fifth largest in the world. Furthermore, they are the fourth largest exporter of arms and have a military industrial complex rivaling that of the United States. In other words, Israel has always had a comprehensive monopoly over the use of force, and much like its super power ally, Israel uses war as an advertising showcase of its many instruments of death.
5. Israel claims to have struck military targets only.
Even while image after image of dead and mutilated women and children flash across our televisions, Israel brazenly claims that their munitions expertly struck only military installations. We know this to be false as many other civilian sites have been hit by airstrikes including a hospital and mosque.
In the most densely populated area on the planet, tons upon tons of explosives have been dropped. The first estimates of injured are in the thousands. Israel will claim that these are merely 'collateral damage' or accidental deaths. The sheer ridiculousness and inhumanity of such a claim should sicken the world community.
6. Israel claims that it is attacking Hamas and not the Palestinian people.
First and foremost, missiles do not differentiate people by their political affiliation; they simply kill everyone in their path. Israel knows this, and so do Palestinians. What Israel also knows, but is not saying public ally, is how much their recent actions will actually strengthen Hamas - whose message of resistance and revenge is being echoed by the angry and grieving.
The targets of the strike, police and not Hamas militants, give us some clue as to Israel's mistaken intention. They are hoping to create anarchy in the Strip by removing the pillar of law and order.
7. Israel claims that Palestinians are the source of violence.
Let us be clear and unequivocal. The occupation of Palestine since the War of 1967 has been and remains the root of violence between Israelis and Palestinians. Violence can be ended with the occupation and the granting of Palestine's national and human rights. Hamas does not control the West Bank and yet we remain occupied, our rights violated and our children killed.
With these myths understood, let us ponder the real reasons behind these airstrikes; what we find may be even more disgusting than the act itself.
The leaders Israel are holding press conferences, dressed in black, with sleeves rolled up.
'It's time to fight', they say, 'but it won't be easy.'
To prove just how hard it is, Livni, Olmert and Barak did not even wear make-up to the press conference, and Barak has ended his presidential campaign to focus on the Gaza campaign. What heroes...what leaders...
We all know the truth: the suspension of the electioneering is exactly that - electioneering.
Like John McCain's suspension of his presidential campaign to return to Washington to 'deal with' the financial crisis, this act is little more than a publicity stunt.
The candidates have to appear 'tough enough to lead', and there is seemingly no better way of doing that than bathing in Palestinian blood.
'Look at me,' Livni says in her black suit and unkempt hair, 'I am a warrior. I am strong enough to pull the trigger. Don't you feel more confident about voting for me, now that you know I am as ruthless as Bibi Netanyahu?'
I do not know which is more disturbing, her and Barak, or the constituency they are trying to please.
In the end, this will in no way improve the security of the average Israeli; in fact it can be expected to get much worse in the coming days as the massacre could presumably provoke a new generation of suicide bombers.
It will not undermine Hamas either, and it will not result in the three fools, Barak, Livni and Olmert, looking 'tough'. Their misguided political venture will likely blow up in their faces as did the brutally similar 2006 invasion of Lebanon.
In closing, there is another reason - beyond the internal politics of Israel - why this attack has been allowed to occur: the complicity and silence of the international community.
Israel cannot and would not act against the will of its economic allies in Europe or its military allies in the US. Israel may be pulling the trigger ending hundreds, perhaps even thousands of lives this week, but it is the apathy of the world and the inhumane tolerance of Palestinian suffering which allows this to occur.
'The evil only exists because the good remain silent'
Huffpost always rips from other sites...so I doubt you are doing a disservice.
posted by Anonymous : 5:23 PM
Joseph...You said: "Here in America, we have recently endured a vicious political campaign in which many "progressives" argued that anyone refusing to support Barack Obama must be racist. These simpletons cannot conceive of any other reason for someone like me to oppose a product of the corrupt Chicago political machine. (For more proof of Obama's corruption, note this.)
Try this experiment: Remind an Obama-supporting lefty that 47 percent of the electorate voted for the Republican, in an election year that should have been a Democratic landslide. How many seconds will elapse before said lefty utters the word "racism"?
Now try this cognate experiment: Ask the average Israel-supporting American to consider the arguments made by Bargouthi. How many seconds will pass before you hear the word "anti-Semitism"?"
I agree on both counts. Here's another experiment: Ask the average Israeli and Obama supporting American to consider what Cynthia McKinney had to say when rammed during a relief effort. How many seconds pass before you hear the words "anti-Semite," bathed in some not-subtle-at-all "sexism?" This piece by Alex Koppelman at Salon (I know, I know)is a great example. What the hell???
Also, I don't see the comparison between Obama and Israel. Because Obama is one man. Israel is an entire government. Criticizing Obama for what he says and does has nothing to do with his race. Bashing "the Jews" is, indeed, anti-Semitism. The comparison that works is Obama vs. Omert. When you talk about "the Jews" being the problem would be comparable to you arguing that "the blacks" are the problem in the US.
Nowhere have I ever assailed Jews or any other group on racial or ethnic grounds.
What I have done is attack a government. What I have done and will continue to do is akin to condemning "the Germans" for their actions during World War II.
Anyone who says that the Germans behaved abominably in that time or place is not attacking "the German people" on racial or ethnic grounds. Rather, the attack is based on history. They did wrong; they deserve condemnation. The situation is as simple as that.
The Italians deserve enormous blame for their murderous descent in barbarism during the same period of history. How can you accuse me of racism if I make that charge against the Italians? I happen to be of Italian ancestry myself.
Same thing with the Russians. I bear no animus toward Russians as a people. Nevertheless, they installed puppet dictatorships throughout Eastern Europe. Should I refrain from recognizing that fact of history for fear that I might be accused of being a "Russian hater"?
God knows the Americans have committed ghastly, disgusting genocide and slavery. If I insist that historical record accurately, I am not engaging in any form of bigotry or intolerance against the American people.
Let's face it: The entire human enterprise is a pretty low business, and over the long span of history, every single group will probably get its chance to prove that it can be just as atrocious as every other group. And a group that was persecuted in one era may become a persecutor in another era -- just as an abused child may grow up to become an abuser.
You seem to think that Jews stand outside of and above the rest of humanity. You think that Jews, alone among peoples, remain uninfected by pandemic barbarity. You are, in short, a believer in Jewish exceptionalism.
I call bullshit on that.
The Holocaust -- unparalleled crime that it was -- does not give you the right to smash into my car, kill my dog, blow up my house or commit any other crime against me. Similarly, the Holocaust does not give Israel the right to mistreat the Palestinians.
In fact, the Holocaust -- quite simply -- does not, in and of itself, give Israel a right to exist.
Look, I'm very sorry about what happened to the Hutus of Rwanda. But does their tragedy give them the right to take over Rhode Island and to mistreat the people who live there now?
Anti-Semitism? To the contrary: Israel has been shown a ridiculous degree of deference. I'll say it again: If anyone OTHER than Jews ran Israel, the country would have condemned by all Americans for its acts of barbarity.
Jews have about as much right to live in that land as I have to be parking my ass on land that belongs to the Chumash. Indeed, the treatment of the American Indian in this country and the treatment of the Palestinians in Israel is a fairly exact parallel.
And do not talk to me about the Bible. Jews did not have any right to "the Promised Land" even in Biblical times. Re-read Joshua from a non-theist's point of view. Of all the books that have ever been labeled "holy," none are more disgusting and nauseating.
The Jews in Israel have proven that they can be just as murderous and bestial to the Arabs as the Germans were to the Jews. Like the Germans before them, the Israelis must one day lose their right to national self-determination and be forced by the world community to live according to civilized precepts. That will not be an act of anti-Semitism -- it will be justice.
Joseph, must you resort to calling DB disgusting??? The opinions offered are opinions, and should not be used to attack a person, right???DB is probably a fine person who has an opinion different than yours. I haven't heard what you think should happen now.
If you feel the birth of Israel was illegitimate, are you saying they should be forced to leave....didn't the UN help to create Israel as a place for Jews after WW2, since no one wanted to let them immigrate???
Where do you want the Jews to go, if they are not allowed in the Middle East?
The Palestinians may have claim to some of the land in Israel, but some of the land they were suppose to get was never freed up by the surrounding countries, so they are stuck on what land Israel gave them in the agreement to form Israel...Why hasn't Egypt or Lebanon or Jordan encouraged the Palestinians to move there???
I hear you defending a core belief of yours, yet seeming to be in denial about other partial solutions, and ways for everyone to get along. Israel was created to provide the Jews a place to live and practice their religion without assault. That seems to be a problem for the past 50 years or more in Israel, as the surrounding countries have been very honest about their desire to wipe Israel off the map..How can you blame the Israelis for being paranoid, and responding to rocket fire???
What should the UN do?
posted by Anonymous : 5:09 AM
There is much dhimmitude in this posting and the comments.
Jews existed in what is now Israel, and much of Arabia, prior to the formation of the cult that is Islam. While the Jews are its preferred target, Islam seeks to eradicate or subjugate all kafirs. Islam targets Jews (as well as Hindus, Buddhists, Christians), not only Isrealis, well outside of the borders of Israel. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the most obvious example, but there is worldwide jihad being waged.
posted by Anonymous : 8:29 AM
I hope the incoming administration will follow the advice of David Ignatius' Jan 4 WaPo column, "For Obama, a Tough Page To Turn," ... Jan 4 ...
"Obama can't wipe this slate clean. He inherits the legacy of hatred and suspicion...."
"Obama should press ahead with the list of options that existed before the Gaza fighting -- a Turkish-brokered agreement between Hamas and Fatah to extend the term of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas so that peace negotiations can continue under his authority in 2009; American support for peace negotiations between Syria and Israel, which were on the verge of moving to direct talks just a day before the Gaza battle began; and exploratory discussions with Tehran to see if it is possible to envision a new security framework for the region." (my emph.)
Nations of West Asia more sick of this shit than we are, but they're doing something constructive about it, only to be constantly undermined by anglo-american chaos-nurturing Peace and development IS possible there.
Since the Arabs (and a subset of them, the Palestinians) are all Semites, the traditional dehumanizing of them as cockroaches and animals (see any number of Israeli leaders stating these claims) is anti-Semitic.
Since the Ashkenazi cohort among Jews is NOT Semitic, bashing THEM (who make up almost all US and European Jews, and almost all the leadership and citizenry of Israel) is NOT anti-Semitism. In fact, criticizing THOSE people is criticizing non-Semitic anti-Semites for their anti-Semitism with regard to the Arabs.
As to the promises to ISRAEL by God of the promised land, how do you suppose they LOST it in the first place? Orthodox Judaism has always had this answer, and it dates back to the prophets: Israel's disobedience to God prompted Him to allow their exile from the promised land, until such time as they reformed themselves back to faithfulness to God. When they do that, Elijah will return, God will assemble Jews back to Israel, and the Messiah will come (again).
Until these latter two events, Jews return to Israel at their peril, in still further disobedience to God, prompting widespread misery and death.
I'm not sure how much of the above I believe, but the last clause, in the immediate above paragraph, surely seems to be coming true.
XIslander
posted by Anonymous : 3:10 PM
The shortsidedness of most American's historical views always amazez me. Jewish history goes back way past WWII as does the history of ME and Europe. Jews have killed and been killed and so have others for centuries. Jews aren't the first or last group who have suffered genocide. The fact that the majority of violence and hatred toward Jews has been done by Europeans and after Christ by Christians seem to escape most American minds. Arabs and Jews lived along side each other for ages with relative peace (aside from periodic wars over territory) and I do not know of any religous war or wars (as say the Crusades) that happened between Jews and Muslims. That is untill the creation of Israel as a Jewish State. Jewish State being the operative word. By definition, a Jewish State is a segregated state. As such you have to either cleanse the State of non Jews or tolerate a non-citizen majority (one of the major points of conflict in the peace proccess is the right of return) who naturally will fight for equal rights much like the Blacks in the time of slavery in America. Israel chose to cleanse the State (as well as enlarging it's territories) and they have done it from the begining in the most brutal fashion. I dare say that this policy gave rise to "Terrorism" as we know it today. I may be wrong, but I do not know of any incidents of "terrorism" untill the Palestinians started to retaliate against Israel in whatever limited means they possessed. There is no defense for segregation or denial of equal rights. And that is exactley what is wrong with creation and existance of Israel. As Americans we should all be appalled by the idea much less defend it. And yet a "One State Solution" as Joe mentioned and I approve will nullify the whole idea of Isreal as a safe haven for Jews which was and is the defense used most often to justify Israel. If a one state solution where to happen, Jews will become a minority within a short period in Israel, in which case they will be treated or mis-treated as any other citizen. And we are back to the question: Are Jews any different than any other mistreated group in history that we must tolerate Apartide and Ethnic Cleansing? beeta
posted by Anonymous : 3:47 PM
Let me start by saying that I don't believe in any God, Yaveh or Allah and all religions are pure horsecrap in my humble opinion. Most religions incorporate good moral teaching that their leaders usually don't follow.
"Jews existed in what is now Israel, and much of Arabia, prior to the formation of the cult that is Islam."
I like the way you insult the religion of 1.3 billion people by calling it a cult. There's only 20 millions Jews on this planet, that would qualify you to be a minor cult, not even a major religion. Your vengeful god is better than their god ? it's all equal horsecrap if you ask me
A lot of Jews were living IN PEACE AND HARMONY all over the middle east before the creation of the racist state of Israel. Even in Iran, there's a Jewish population who's left in peace by their supposedly anti-Semite government. Jews who lived for hundreds of years in Russia and Poland had no more rights than me to "return" in a land from where their very very distant ancestors were chased 2000 years ago by the Romans because they were TERRORISTS ! (the zealots). I'm not even sure that the Ashkenazi have real Semite roots.
Why did the Palestinians had to pay the price for what the Nazi did ?? (even if the Balfour declaration was written before ww2). For Palestinians, the creation of Israel was a disaster. And their continual suffering became the pillar of the anti-Semite discourse of many Islamist.
"While the Jews are its preferred target, Islam seeks to eradicate or subjugate all kafirs. "
Why are Jews so racist ? Why are we automatically anti-Semite when we talk about "Jews" but they are allowed to talk about other races and religions with racist terms ? It's like because Jews were the quintessential victims of racism of the last century, it authorizes them to be racist and spread lies about other religions...
Some radical Jews in Israel would like to kill all Muslims and recreate the "Great Israel" that would include Syria, part of Lebanon, etc. ? Can we say that all Jews hate Muslims ? There's 1.3 billions Muslim out there, most of them are moderates and peace loving. Radical Islam usually takes its roots in countries where we previously screwed up and installed a dictator: Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Afghanistan, etc.
I can't wait for Zionist to call for a final solution to the Palestinian problem... by looking to the numbers of children and woman killed right now, they are doing great.
Until Zionist consider that their Jewish blood is worth more than others and it's ok to kill 20 palestinians to prevent one jewish death, they will never be peace in the Middle-East.
An eye for an eye, and the whole world goes blind.
The COLB controversy continues apace, and not just in the supermarket tabloids. See here for a particularly amusing example. At first, the audience was told that startling! new! evidence! offered take-it-to-the-bank proof of Obama's Kenyan birth. Alas, things changed...
In his 7:45pm Plains Radio broadcast, this last night, Ed Hale backed down from his prior assertion of having gained even uncertain information about the Barack Sr. / Stanley Ann divorce decree containing language referring to Barack Jr. as being born in Kenya. Instead, Hale referred to an apparently tricky recollection... of an indeterminate person... referring to such a document's generally referring to the place of birth of the children of the divorced parents. That is not what I heard from Mr. Hale on the 31st.
Two people reported during the broadcast that they had contacted Hale's private investigator yesterday, who indicated he did not thoroughly read the documentation and does not know how it addresses Barack Obama Jr. -- nor did he make a copy for himself.
Will the conspiracy theorizing continue? Yes, it will.
What is the attraction of this myth? Isn't it enough for political opponents to say "I don't agree with Barack Obama" or "I don't like Barack Obama"? Must people continue to assert that he is somehow alien?
Incidentally, I doubt that Stanley Ann Dunham and Barack Obama Sr. were divorced, because I doubt that they were married.
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I listened to the broadcast night before last too and, from what I understood, the "evidence" was in an envelope at a certain FedEx hub awaiting delivery on Friday. At least that was the information from the tracking system at FedEx.
There are two points that can't be denied in this issue. One is that several lawyers are spending a lot of time and money to prove that Obama is not legally eligible for the office of POTUS and, two, Obama is spending a lot of money hiring lawyers to defend his "privacy right" to keep his vault copy birth certificate secret.
All speculation aside, just those two facts would/could/does engender a rightful suspicion that something is being hidden. So much for transparency all around.
posted by Anonymous : 7:32 AM
Mr Cannon,what is it, are you really a closet Obama supporter? I don't see why you are so against finding out if obama is in violation of what the Constitution requires. And why should he not have to open his records to the public? There are a lot of legitimate questions that need an answer: why won't he show his birth certificate? my understanding is that there is a difference between a COLB and a birth cert.(some official says he has seen it but don't say what it says) what about dual citizenship or just Kenyan citizenship due to his father being Kenyan? What about his possible Indonesian citizenship? what kind of a passport did he use to travel to Pakistan? and on and on. What is wrong with wanting answers to these and other related questions? Please don"t think I'm trying to be confrontational I just believe that some competant legal minds need to be satisfied with the answers to some of there questions
posted by john in wv : 8:29 AM
I agree with you, the reason BO hides this part of his resume is that the parents were not legally married. I think Obama is a citizen, and this controversy is chump change compared to his associations with the sludge in Chicago, and the IL statehouse...that is where the real bones are buried.
posted by Anonymous : 9:12 AM
I sometimes wonder if the people pushing the COLB thing aren't really Obama supporters posing as his opponents.
Kinda like the way FAUX News gives air time to the goofiest "liberals" they can find but not the real ones.
I had someone from the birther movement contact me a few weeks ago. She wanted the names of the people I had spoken with at the Department of Vital Records and at the Honolulu Advertiser where the public announcement of his birth ran 8 days after he was born. She was trying to make the case that sometimes people remember stuff wrong, and that maybe the lady at the DVR simply thought that they asked for notarized verification of birth rather than actually done it. She claimed to have a statute from the time that said that the person merely needed to request the form and did not require any notarized statements. I tracked the woman back down, and she said no, she was quite confident that through out the sixties, they had always demanded that the person requesting the birth certificate bring in a notarized statement from a doctor who had done a check up of the new born infant or a midwife who had been at the birth.
The birther asked if the information that the DVR posted for the newspapers, from which the birth/death/marriage/divorce announcements ran, could have been raw data. Raw data. What would that be coming from the DVR? And why on earth would the local newspaper of record publish raw data? Wouldn't that defeat the point of being the newspaper of record?
I know what's going on here. Obama didn't have to deal with the birth certificate story so he didn't. A healthy campaign - an HONEST campaign - whether they felt they needed to clear it up or not, would have dealt with it precisely so that their supporters didn''t spend the next four years, as Obama's dimwits inevitably will, dealing with this crap.
My prediction is that with Obama as president, we are going to have four years of entirely unnecessary drama almost non-stop - with examples A. and B. being the birth certificate story and the appointment to his senate seat.
I am starting to think the guy is as stupid as George Bush. I can't believe we got stuck with two of 'em in a row.
posted by Lori : 10:43 AM
I guess the issue is, Barack Obama IS a Citizen, BUT, is he a NATURALIZED Citizen.
Is that a distinction with a difference? Perhaps yes. If a couple makes sure to birth their baby in the United States to make sure their baby is a US citizen even if one of the parents is not, that does not necessarily mean the baby is a natural born citizen. The baby would be a US citizen and then his or her children would be natural born citizens.
Barack Obama's children are natural born citizens even if Barack Obama is not a natural born citizen.
It does seem logical that if both parents are not citizens of the this country, then their children born on US soil would be citizens, but not natural born citizens.
How do you know he's not an alien, Joseph? He himself has said that he was sent to save this planet by his father, Jor-El. He also said his middle name is "Steve," so we know he's a liar. I've stated that I believe that he was created in a political science lab out of re-animated pieces of dead presidents, but that's another story. But, he could be an alien, Joseph, he really could. After watching the media lovefest for an unproven politician who somehow raised close to a billion dollars from little, clingy, Bible-thumping, gun owners he continues to gleefully throw under the bus, I'll believe anything.
The blame ultimately lies with Obama. He could end this right now by producing his real birth certificate but he chooses not to. He has something to hide and people will continue to come up with guesses as to what he is hiding until the truth comes out. I think the COLB is insignificant compared to all of the other secrets hanging in Obama's closet from his childhood to his associations in Chicago. I don't think we'll ever get to learn about the real Barack Obama because his followers and the media are more interested in the myth that Obama and his handlers have created.
posted by demholdout : 12:53 PM
The "attraction" is that even an historic PE made out of teflon could not spin his way out of proven constitutional ineligibility.
posted by Anonymous : 1:26 PM
"At first, the audience was told that startling! new! evidence! offered take-it-to-the-bank proof of Obama's Kenyan birth."
That is utterly untrue. Please correct your own blog posting.
I highly doubt that providing the 'original' colb will persuade everybody of anything.
We'll still see web-graphics-based jpeg artifacts of the new document's photographs touted as 'proof' of tampering/forgery.
It would be similar to the Vince Foster case. Each and every investigation that put the conspiracy theory story to bed was considered a cover up, and new investigations were demanded, and received. Rinse and repeat was the only net result.
XIslander
posted by Anonymous : 2:37 PM
Brace yourself. The lead up to the inauguration will be nothing short of God visiting for the day. The MSM will wring every narrative they can about "african american boy who makes good"....avoiding the truth, BO is bi-racial.
posted by Anonymous : 4:29 PM
We know that the birth certificate says that Obama's parents were married because the announcement printed in the Honolulu Advertiser 8 days after his birth, lists his parents as Mr. and Mrs. Barack Hussein Obama. Hospitals do not question whether a mother is telling the truth about her marital status because it isn't their job to assess their patient's truthfulness. They simply record what the patient tells them.
This is what we know - Barack Obama was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961 and that by the middle of the week, his birth certificate had been processed by the Department of Vital Records, and the official notice listed for publication in the Sunday, August 13th issue of the Honolulu Advertiser - the local paper of record. This was not a paid announcement. Paid announcements were in a different section of the paper. This public record was taken directly from the list of births/deaths/marriages/divorces provided by the Department of Vital Records for publication. It's official. Regarding his COLB, we know that Joe Cannon has revealed the embossing that is barely visible proving that it is not some mock up created by the goons at DK.
Obama isn't hiding anything. He's having a good time laughing at the people who keep this up. He didn't have to deal with it - because he is a naturally born American citizen - so, being a supreme asshole, he didn't deal with it.
I have to wonder to what degree the Obama camp is keeping this story alive to distract from the far more damning Rezko tales.
posted by Lori : 4:31 PM
The document can be found here:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=4IWQVQFE
although page 4 doesn't seem to show up. It appear that Obama's mother and father were married, and divorced, in Hawaii and she got custody of the kid. Nothing about him being born in Kenya.
If Obama's parents were married and divorced in Hawaii in the early 60s, then there will be a public record of that available. I had asked that a preliminary search be done in the archives of the Honolulu Advertiser but nothing showed up. This would be a simple task for someone. Go to the Hawaii State Library and search the archives of the Honolulu Advertiser for 1960-1964. There may also be data files in the library from the Department of Vital Records as well. Either way, it's an afternoon's work for someone and considering how much drama has arisen around this, it seems like a good investment of time. If someone wants to buy me a ticket to Hawaii, and a few nights in a hotel room, I'll dig up lots of information about his time there.
Michelle Obama says that Barack's mother was "very much single" and, personally, I would take her at face value on that.
As anticipated, there's no substance to it. Nothing about Obama being born outside the US. They've changed the subject to the old chestnut about his father being British/Kenyan/Martian/whatever, as if that were news to anyone.
BO's birth certificate sez he's white. That's why he doesn't want you to see it; and Joe, when you see smoke do you think fire or do you think it's a conspiracy theory nut smoking reefer?
when you see smoke do you think fire or do you think it's a conspiracy theory nut smoking reefer?
Well, if you had once done a detailed investigation of a similar cloud of smoke (as Joseph did in the case of the Techdude/COLB forgery claim) and it turned out that there was, indeed, nothing there but a conspiracy nut with a reefer -- and if every other much-ballyhooed case of "smoke" had eventually turned out to be merely flatulence (as with this latest fizzle) -- then it wouldn't be unreasonable to make the same working hypothesis in later cases.
So all those who say the whole thing is a farce also say that there is no difference between being a natural born citizen versus being a citizen.
What sites are you talking about? I've never heard anyone say that.
What people are saying is that (a) there is not a scintilla of evidence to support the claim that Obama was born outside the US, and (b) his father being Kenyan does not disqualify him from being a natural-born citizen in the Constitutional sense.
Please, please, drop this nonsense. It risks discrediting, by association, those lines of attack against Obama which do have actual substance to them.
That is what is noticeable about the obsession with the birth certificate - it prevents the kind of discussion about Rezko that could actually impact Obama.
posted by Lori : 5:10 PM
Ed Hale from plainsradio.com shot and killed two big feet.. Or were they human?
Its amazing that we know so little about Obama's past anyhow. How is it that those pictures of Obama from Columbia University, with cigarette in hand just come out now, after the election. So, there is more than meets the eye. At last we hear from somebody who knew him then. Who else will come forward? His dealer? His party buddies? I believe there is an Ayers link in his past too going that far back. We'll learn all this as time goes on but the big question is how is that happening only now when the press should have been busy all this time looking for those associates.
I don't understand why it enters the realm of conspiracies to enforce the Constitution. People just want to put this issue to rest because if it is found out later on that Obama was NOT a NBC, then all laws passed during his tenure are null and void. Every order he gave, illegal. Even without knowing if Obama is a NBC, people can claim this as a defense as to why they did not follow laws passed during Obama's tenure.
There are even organizations being set up to challenge every single law passed by the Obama administration.
But oh no!!! Don't make sure the Constitution is followed. It's too bothersome.
This post is non-political. I have decided to record a memory snippet. Why? Because last night's viewing of The Good, the Bad and the Ugly pushed this particular snippet to the forefront of my thoughts. Also, I've fallen out of the evil habit of daily writing, and recounting this anecdote should provide a quick way to re-establish the addiction.
Nearly thirty years ago, during my college years, I wrote for the UCLA Daily Bruin. One day, while my comrades and I indulged in our usual activities -- discussing philosophy, insulting each other, flinging paperclips at our hanging rubber bat, describing the grand and salvific works of art which we planned to create but never would -- an exceptionally cute brunette bounced into our cubicle. My former friend Colin (then an obnoxious pseudo-Marxist; later an obnoxious pseudo-neocon) instantly decided that she was that week's Most Gorgeous Woman of All Time. I concurred. It was the hair. She had rivers of the stuff, a dark and lustrous Niagara flowing out of a stylish French artist's beret.
She was the daughter of Eli Wallach, a great actor who -- despite a long and distinguished career -- will forever be known as Tuco in Sergio Leone's masterpiece, The Good, the Bad and the Ugly. She was an actress herself, although she did not mention that fact. In a classic error, we did not make many inquiries about her life.
Naturally, Colin spent the next hour trying very hard to prove that he was cleverer and funnier than I was. Naturally, I returned the favor. He made a few cloddish attempts to convert her to Bolshevism, which was his way of saying "I love you." I managed to avoid bragging about my blog, probably because the internet did not yet exist. In those days, I possessed both copious hair and the gauntness of poverty. I hoped that she was still young enough to believe in all that romantic horseshit about starving artists.
Colin and I both tried very hard to present ourselves as wits and intellectuals. It was a battle of Der Shmartness: He quoted liberally from Engels and Dostoevsky and Derrida; I responded with choice gems from Shaw, Wilde and Stan Lee.
The object of our competition eventually excused herself for a visit to the little girl's room. We assumed that this was her way of making an escape. "That's the daughter of Ugly?" we shriek-whispered to each other. The fact astonished us (even though Eli Wallach was, in real life, not at all ugly). We were even more astonished when she returned. We were downright flabbergasted when she assented to our invite for coffee and dessert.
In nearby Westwood, the battle of wits continued, now fueled by caffeine. Colin and I spent the entire evening trying to one-up each other intellectually. Imagine the final gunfight in a Leone western. Now imagine how the scene might have played out if Clint Eastwood and and Lee Van Cleef were both pretentious weenies, firing polysyllables instead of bullets. The beauteous seed of Tuco put up with this silliness for an hour or two, then parted.
For some reason, we had the impression that she planned to stop by the office again -- and soon. On that occasion, Colin and I decided, one of us would ask her out. But which one?
Such was the problem confronting two young philosophers as they swilled coffee until daybreak.
"She seemed more interested in you, old chap." "Oh no. I think she liked you better." Whenever insecurity set in, Colin and I fell into the "Apres vous, Gaston" routine. And we suddenly felt very insecure -- for good reason. This lovely young thing was way out of our league. We thus both decided to give the other fellow First Shot on the glorious occasion of Ms. Wallach's return visit to our universe. The resultant displays of nobly hyperbolic mutual deference might have been quite amusing...
...had she not been wise enough to avoid that embarrassing scene. She did not set foot in the Bruin office again.
It occurred to us that we might have stood a better chance had we shown some interest in her life, instead of holding a geek-off. The smartest guys on campus had proven that they were actually the dumbest.
There are two kinds of men in this world, my friend -- and Colin and I belonged to the kind who don't date beautiful young actresses. I still think about that night every time I hear Ennio Morricone's classic score: Wa-WAAAH-wah. That's the sound of Fate's laughter. Eventually, one learns to laugh along.
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Joe, if you've truly learned your lesson about showing an interest in a woman's life, couldn't you identify her as something more than "Eli Wallach's daughter"? She has a name of her own, which is either Katherine or Roberta (and her mother is the accomplished actress Anne Jackson).
(Then again, I went to USC at the same time you were at UCLA, and I was friendly with classmates whom I still refer to as "Walter Matthau's son" and "Cheryl Ladd's niece.")
posted by A Different Joe : 3:59 AM
Joe, you caught me. Many years have passed, and I -- uh -- forget which one captured my heart that night. I THINK it was Katherine.
My memory for names is, however, notoriously poor. I once forgot my own middle name. So if Katherine/Roberta reads this, I hope she will forgive.
A Trojan, eh? Well, I never cared about the rivalry -- and I recall my hours in the Norris theater with great fondness.
IMDB lists Katherine as the younger, born in '58, like me.
I never cared much about the UCLA/USC rivalry either. I was/am from the Midwest, went to SoCal to study film and wrongly expected the campus to be filled with beatniks. I would have been better off at UCLA. But it did prep me to become a movie critic, which I am, for the daily in St. Louis, where I sneak in my political opinions as much as possible. Because I'm an Obama fence-sitter (and a JFK assassination obsessive), your site is one of my daily haunts. I expect to post comments more often, and I'll do so as "Trojan Joe." Cheers.
posted by A Different Joe : 11:17 AM
Took me a long bout of therapy to realize that other sentient creatures have narratives too. If it was Katherine, she had a resonant, if small role in the Gangs of New York, and is a jewelry designer these days. I saw the dad, in a another lifetime, in an off-Broadway, slam-dunk version of Death of a Salesman (used to profound effect by Charlie Kauffman in Synecdoche NY).
My college experience taught me never to choose between two friends. If they both showed interest, I had to make myself scarce. No way does a lady ever come between friends. She was wise and kind to choose as she did.
I love the image of the two of you going into your "Apres vous, gaston," routine.
Thanks for a story that truly took me back in time. Although I'd imagine young gentlemen still behave much the same.
posted by Anonymous : 1:23 PM
If this is a non-political post, why did you give it such an obviously political title? Answer me that, Mr. Cannon.
That was a very good read! Thanks! I'm fascinated to hear about people going to school/college with students who later became household names - or offspring/ siblings of same. Nothing as interesting ever happened in my small corner of the world in Yorkshire UK, where celebrities were thin on the ground - or more acurately non-existent.
