Obviously, there's more to it than that. But what? Staying in the administration (arguably) gave him somewhat better claim to executive privilege. So why would he leave?
My best guess: He wants to work on an upcoming campaign, so he can do the same dirty work within the next Republican administration. And it will be Republican, given the facts that 1. Most progressives now hate the Democratic party more than they hate the Republicans and 2. There will be a strong third-party run by Michael Bloomberg, who will tailor his message to appeal to progressives.
My prediction: Rove will help Bloomberg campaign -- overtly or covertly. When Karl understood that the Republicans cannot win in 2008 without a split in the Democratic vote, a scheme was born.
Mr. Rove also said he expects the president's approval rating to rise again, and that conditions in Iraq will improve as the U.S. military surge continues. He said he expects Democrats to be divided this fall in the battle over warrantless wiretapping...(Emphasis added.) Of course he expects it. He planned it. Or so I speculate.
19 comments:
Joseph, please:
- Giving the Rovians more credit for cleverness than they deserve only emboldens them.
- Assuming that "most progressives now hate the Democratic party more than they hate the Republicans" confuses perfectly normal Democratic willingness to rough up their own leadership with the kind of deep, in-the-flood hatred progressives feel for the heirs of Richard Nixon.
- What things look like in August is not what they will look like in February and even further from what they will look like a year from now.
That said, though, if there really is a diabolically clever Rove scheme in play, I suspect it would have to begin with getting Hillary Clinton the Democratic nomination, since she is the only candidate divisive enough to make your scenario at all plausible. So that is one area that does bear some attention.
My own inclination would be to keep a close eye on whether Rove hooks back up with his former buddies at Olsen-Shuvalov or reactivates his old direct-mail firm of Karl Rove & Co. There are also some interesting speculations on Rove's personal wealth in this Daily Kos diary that may be relevant.
Oops. Should have been "in-the-blood hatred." I probably got a little cross-wired with Dylan singing "if you go down in the flood, gonna be your own fault" -- which is probably an apt comment under the circumstances.
"Assuming that "most progressives now hate the Democratic party more than they hate the Republicans" confuses perfectly normal Democratic willingness to rough up their own leadership with the kind of deep, in-the-flood hatred progressives feel for the heirs of Richard Nixon."
I stand by what I have said. Are you reading the same blogosphere that I am reading? Lefties are now worse than Freepers.
Why do liberals always love to predict failure for themselves?
Wingers are just the opposite. They predict a rosy future for themselves, no matter how screwed they are.
If the so called progressive vote bails on the Democrats and another Republican is elected President. The progressives will have the blame all to themselves. They helped get us in this mess with that foolish Nader campaign.
Perry, I don't speak for anyone else. I always tend toward gloomy predictions -- and not just in the political realm. Why?
1. Dark forecasts really are more likely to prove true.
2. Presume the worst and all your surprises will be pleasant ones.
You're probably correct about Rove, Joseph -- and some of the time with his family will include house hunting in Paraguay. Rove's 'genius' served his times, but youth and tech belong to others for this Mother of All Elections. California, Texas, New York, and 'the South' are what matter most still, and you know that 'the South' won't vote for a Democrat after what LBJ enabled in 1964-65 (essentially federal anti-segregation legislation and policy, which relied on economic coercion, e.g., federal funds) unless a Jim Carter or Billy Clinton exude enough charm; so Edwards will have to appeal to Californians and New Yorkers. I love Hillary and want her to spend time with her family, grandkids even, or help Chelsea run for a House seat. You probably underestimate the misogyny out there, Joseph; you certainly understate its degree since much of it is gynephobia. You know, you just know, that Hillary's husband is going to be called a slut in the future every 15 minutes. Hillary is too much of a lightning rod for everything, and such baggage at this hour can fracture and destroy the Democratic Party. I mean, political parties aren't eternal. My only hope is that I wake up and Nancy Pelosi is my President. Hey, it's less far-fetched than any of your electoral scenarios!
The scheme to divide the Democrats started a long time ago and has nothing to do with the latest imbroglio over wiretapping. That is just the most recent splitting or fracture in the bones of the Democrat skeleton.
Down in the deep dark, musty crusty cargo hold of the good ship “Neotitanic”, was secretly and surreptitiously placed a deadly virus, in huge quantities. The virus was secretly hidden under the cargo the outset of the launch, of their coming aboard as captain and crew in the year 2000.
Some of the effects of this sickness I have listed here to awaken the populace to the disorder and the antidote to it as well.
1. The war in Iraq divides the Democrats aplenty.
2. Health care for all divides them aplenty
3. The tax breaks given to the captain and his crew and their friends at home in mansions, divide the Demos also
4. That new disorder recently diagnosed by several mental health specialists called "The Lieberman Syndrome", which attacks only Democrats, compels them to slide sideways, strangely to the right, into the Republican camp for foot rubs and extra bonus points given generously to add to their wealth and prestige somehow. A very contagious virus which has infected most if not all the Democrats for a long time with no apparent cure in sight.
Some researchers into this strange, not so new malady, have discovered an antidote they claim. It has temporarily been named "The Kucinich” serum. What that discovery does is set up a resistance to the deadly ” Lieberman virus” and compels certain few of the Democrat politicians riding donkeys into town, to tell the truth constantly. So far it has not been used by very many Democrats. They say it is too new, untested, radical, too purist in its effects, and above all else too costly and interrupts their professional day by day routines and office visits from the many Republican loyalists, thundering into their offices on the backs of elephants. These lobbyists that pay them big bucks, and who hand them cups of the sweet concoction laced with the” Liebermann virus”, generously given them.
6. or 666, in the long list of symptoms plaguing most Democrats now.
Oh well you can take it from here I just wanted to alert you to the latest pathologies and their radical remedies.
Oh about the donkey. Jesus did not ride into Jerusalem on an elephant for His execution, (and resurrection), so we have chosen the donkey as the animal of choice for this rescue of the Democratic party as "The Kucinich virus" triumphs over Satan's potions infecting so many of the population and politicians with the deadly disorders and diseases.
Pretty simple eh? We like simple.
Cannon, you are assuming Rove is really a Republican. He isn't. He is a NEOCON>
The next president will be elected by a campaign run by Rove but it doesn't matter if it is Republican or Democrat as long as it is a NEOCON>
Rove will be running Hillary's campaign.....
Anon said..
Cannon, you are assuming Rove is really a Republican. He isn't. He is a NEOCON>
The next president will be elected by a campaign run by Rove but it
doesn't matter if it is Republican or Democrat as long as it is a NEOCON>
Rove will be running Hillary's campaign.....
a better perspctive is,
a closer look at the bloody history of the actions of the United States last sixty years demonstrates that
actually folks, Karl is a dyed in the wool Nazi. Get used to it. He is just the tip of the Reichberg we are headed into. Throw the deck chairs overboard and get serious and read this book.
"Martin Bormann Nazi in Exile", to see the bigger picture of the Empire Hitler created before he exited stage right.
http://www.animalfarm.org/mb/mb.shtml
then read this..
http://www.maebrussell.com/Mae%20Brussell%20Articles/
Nazi%20Connection%20to%20JFK%20Assass.html
then you will have the context that allows for the N word to be used accurately.
Anon...what can I say...
Do I have ANY non-wackjob readers?
You know, I really am beginning to think that there is conspiracy to pepper the blogosphere with these inanities. I know that the idea seems paranoid, but something about these comments seems -- phoney. And I don't just mean the comments on this site.
It's always the same pattern. An anonymous asshole -- or someone using a nick no-one ever heard of before -- hops on, and leaves an short message offering insane accusation against the Dems ("It was really the Democrats who committed vote fraud in Ohio!") No attempt to develop an argument. It's not as though anyone puts any work into these messages. Just a quick little propaganda blast.
The individual comment can be ridiculed or countered, but the "drive-bys" keep on coming, hundreds of 'em. Every day.
Remember the "megaphonies"? The ones who offered quick "drive-bys" whenever I criticized Israel? In that case, a kind reader hipped us all to a news story on the "Megaphone" operation, which was being run out of an Israeli university.
So this is the same type of operation, I think.
joe.
chill.
whatever happened to your apology to your readers? if you have learned nothing else from your excursions through other blogs, you should really have noticed the vast range of caliber and tone across all of them. and you should be reminded that your readership is pretty darn sophisticated, all in all. what is of interest is your fixation on the idiots. there ARE idiots in this world. face it. deal. if you don't accept that singular fact, YOU are an idiot along with them.
many of the arguments you are making here show some semblance of logic, as far as they go, on this matter of cannibalistic progressives.
but i hasten to remind you that you had almost identical forebodings before last november's election, not just about the inability of the dems to pull together to elect a democratic congress, but also about karl rove's 'genius' in anticipating and directing each and every nuance of each and every voter's psyche. and guess what? you, sir, were DEAD WRONG.
not to toot my own horn, but you and i aired our differences on this matter back then, and i insisted that rove is NOT an evil genius, he is merely evil. he has screwed up as much as he has prevailed, and the remarkably ruthless cast of his strategies will inevitably catch up with him, as we now see. i would not give ANYone in the whole wide world the kind of credit you are giving him with the wildly prescient scheme you're claiming. pardon me, but that is simply ridiculous. the best i can say in rove's defense is that he knows how to play offensive defense; in other words, he sees a swing coming and in good judo form, instantly turns it on his opponents.
but this can only go so far, and i don't believe the collective mindset of this country is dancing to his fear mongering tune anymore on ANY issues, be they iraq, al qaeda, iran, social security, immigration, or whatever boogyman du jour. he's washed up, and any campaign that takes him on is by definition a certifiable fool. and an idiot.
the real reasonS (note the plural) that rove is resigning are plenty, from abramoff to the atty purge to the hatch act violations through politicking in government agencies. not to mention, of course, his subpoena from congress, now his contempt, and then the still questionable role he played in plame's outing. he is under investigation in ALL of these matters, including the last one, i believe, despite what his atty told the world right before libby was indicted. (for the real skinny on all this, do see emptywheel, as always.)
in sum, here is my general take, for what it's worth:
rove is in trouble, hence he departs.
dems complain more loudly and show more diversity - even to the point of turning on each other - because they CAN; republicans show more party loyalty because they're afraid to do otherwise. this is too simplistic, but there's enough to it to give pause on this unseemly debate.
because in case you haven't noticed, by your own harangue against the dems is proving your own point. which i refuse to buy. at least, not at the price you would exact here.
I second your thoughts on psyop types working the blogs. I'd guess they were mostly programs with some human oversight. It was the great Billmon himself who predicted that some of those lost Iraq billions would end up back home working PR for the entrenched.
I also agree with your views on Karl. He'll either be indicted or will run the defensive side of the next campaign. He's got nothing positive in him but I'm sure he has several swift boat type ideas ready to go.
Some on the left are now dismissing him as a loser. This view of him only shows their vulnerability to past and future tactics.
GPofBR
And another thing, don't count out the American people or the constitution. The American people rallying back sounds crazy, but the mainstream will probably hold against almost anything.
The constitution has been thrown to the ground and stomped in the mud, but to underestimate it's strength would also be a mistake.
GPofBR
doc e.,
Glad to see you here.
I predict the worst routinely. So ONE TIME "the worst" doesn't happen. One happy surprise doesn't change the fact that pessimism has a damned good track record, as isms go.
As for Karl: He twice got a chimp elected president. You gotta have some kind of brilliance to pull off a maneuver like that.
If I were candidate Rob Machiavelli, running for office, I'd hire Karl in a second.
Some people believe that the best indication of future behavior is past behavior. It is a valid point of view and stands true more times than not.
G. Bush is a perfect example. He will stay the coarse come hell or high water. Carl Rove is more complicated than Bush. He may stay the coarse or choose to go underground for reasons he may know that we don't know.
As for democrats and progressives, things get even more complicated.
- First you have to introduce the collective mindset which could propel or impede the predicted coarse. Just as collective disgust may take over for a while, collective fact finding and analysis and re-direction can take over as quickly (there isn't as much anger out there about funding the Iraq war now that we have the FISA bill, and this too will lose it's intensity).
-Second, to the dismay of all political analysts, historians and pundits, the collective mind is still as unpredictable as which funnel cloud touches the ground.
-Third, in the absence of any new parameters or factors, the theory could possibly hold true. But there are decidedly new factors introduced into the old equation. America is no longer the GOLDEN DREAM that it once was (even in the minds of Americans). America can no longer demand respect from the world. America can not even provide or protect it's own citizens (Katrina, bridge falling in the river, providing a decent standard of living, the demise of the middle class and with it the death of the American dream).
-Fourth, there is nothing more compelling than losing your house, losing your job, losing you health insurance, losing your pension or your long held assumptions to get the collective BUTT out there screaming for change. Carl Rove and the rest can try to lie their way out of this, but the fact remains that a year from now, the economy is going to look bad if not scary.
-Fifth, How many people predicted a Hamas victory or for that matter an internal fight between the Palestinians. Now many people figured on a guy like Putin as the president of Russia in 2007 after the so called defeat of Communism. How many people figured the Iraqi people for the fierce resistance they have put up against the mighty US army. How many people predicted that Chavez would be alive and well and giving America hell today. How many people believed that Hezbollah would give the mighty Israeli military the worst defeat they have ever endured.
"The best lay-ed plans of Mice and Men" are just that.
I live in Tom "de-lay" old district. I forgot to mention the reason for the word play. Not a peep out of anyone down here about the old hammer nowdays!
My belief is that Rove is not, I repeat, NOT a political genius. If he were, the repubs wouldn't have had to steal two (maybe three) elections. However, he IS ruthless. He cares not for the consequences, who his actions hurt or even kill, or what anyone thinks of him. In that respect, he is much like his creation, the W. There are elements of the passive aggressive in him, as in most bullies. His strategy against Hillary has already been in play: the misogynistic hatred of women in general, and women in power in particular, spouted by the right wing air pundits. He doesn't care how many women get ridiculed in the workplace or not promoted because their boss feels justified in ignoring them, or even raped as a result of the hatred of women freely and constantly broadcast.
I think perhaps Clinton's attempt to bridge this misogynistic gap is evident in her apparently enthusiastic participation in the Congressional prayer group, traditionally (at least in later years) a republican domain.
And do not forget, kiddies, that the "democrats" who are voting against what we might think are the "right" things, are Dinos, to use Michael Moore's term. These are the Blue Dog dems who are quite well organized and very conservative and mostly from the south (Harman being one exception). It is this group that Pelosi et al. can't risk antagonizing or losing. If she does, the majority could shift to the repubs once again. It's a fine line and Pelosi must straddle it every day.
Personally, I think the dems best chance would be Edwards, with perhaps Richardson (I could only wish Kucinich) as #2. He could carry the south and appeals to many in the west. But I fear that he is being dragged down into depression by the trials of his wife. It is truly sad. She even seems more upbeat and feisty than he does. One wonders what dynamics are at play between them.
And, Joseph, one clue is the use of the word "democrat" for democratic, as in party. And dr. elsewhere has a point, a good one. I, too, was pessimistic in the last election and told everyone the dems would not win. Like you say, being pleasantly surprised is a bonus. However, I think she may be TOO optimistic. And I tend not to think that rove left because he was in trouble, but that the W was in trouble. Typical bully behavior.
fallinglady
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